Conspiracy, Big Tobacco, and the Government

[ThaVaporz]

So I have never been big on the whole government conspiracies, but with all this anti-e-cig business its really got me thinking. You would think a revolutionary product thats been out for 7 years would be immensely popular, but it seems like such a conflict of interests on so many points. Than my mom was telling me that the government brings in 52 BILLION in tobacco taxes a year in the US. Now that is a ....load of money! And that at the same time all the gov is telling all these people to quit, if everyone did, theyd be out of all that money. Made me think of all those anti-smoking commercials (which are paid with BT's taxes) and why there so .......n stupid, seems like they're not even trying to convert u. And what pisses me off the most is all these FDA and ACS web saying there is no evidence that these products are effective at smoking cessation (when we all im sure agree this is THE MOST EFFECTIVE product.

So my question is, do you believe all this panic is due to genuine misled concern (which is quite believable) or actual government conspiracy (also quite believable at this point)

 

[Scorched]

I went ahead and voted for the first one. Even still, I believe that the issue is a good combination between government conspiracy and mislead naive folks. I can say for certain, in my opinion, that most people are naiveor ignorant about PV's because the government wants to keep it that way.

I am a firm believer that our government is a repulsive cist of corruption, teeming with the exacerbating bacteria we know as our infrastructure and society. If you're intrested in government corruption and all that check out Zeitgeist - The Movie: Federal Reserve (Part 1 of 5).

 

[AlexTM]

A conspiracy requires a lot of people working together efficiently and in secrecy. I doubt governments can manage that. Hanlon's Razor usually can safely be appliled: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I also don't think Big tobacco plays that big a part – they need to be on the lookout for other things to market, because obviously, time for analogs is running out. Big Pharma, on the other hand, hopes to cash in on exactly that, and we are standing in their way. And I guess they have a much better stance when lobbying, too: After all, their only purpose ever is to get people better, isn't it? Right …

 

[D103]

Thanks for the clips Scorched!! Fascinating and disturbing! Time to wake up Indeed!!

 

[maxx]

Conspiracy is a broad term and tends to bring up ideas of Kennedy, area 51 and faked moon landings. In that vein, there is no conspiracy....

What you do have is good old fashioned corruption, bribery and self-interest. That's been around since humans have walked the planet. Politicians and special interest are for sale and are bought and sold regularly like stocks and bonds.

 

[Elendil]

Moving to Polls

 

[wv2win]

Big tobacco could care less. Your poll missed the most obvious group that wants to stop PV use other than the zealots. Big Pharm has the most to lose and they fund the zealots. Do the research.

 

[ThaVaporz]

I suppose Big Pharm could also be playing their role, but its kinda hard to believe that all the other NRT make as much money (even tho im sure they still do bring a lot) even a fraction of what big tobacco does.

 

[smokin n jokin]

I think it's more of a conspiracy between government and big pharma than it is between government and big tobacco. As soon as the government gets the FDA to regulate it and figures out a way to tax it they will embrace it as the best smoking cessation product to ever hit the market.

 

[Kate51]

52 BILLION in tobacco taxes a year

That's the only conspiracy. It's really just big G. Big Pharma is just lapping up the spilt milk, folks running for the "pills" that will cure them. If people love it, tax it. Big "G" can't tax it until FDA approves it. Like BigTobacco. Oh, and the advertising? That's not BT's money, that's yours! Just wait until they figure out that nearly everyone uses toilet paper. This is going to get really down and dirty!

 

[AlexTM]

I suppose Big Pharm could also be playing their role, but its kinda hard to believe that all the other NRT make as much money (even tho im sure they still do bring a lot) even a fraction of what big tobacco does.

It may be less money - although don't underestimate the amount, either - but it is money made by "reputable" people, as opposed to BT which have lost some of their standing. Not to mention that BP has the support of all the rabid anti-smokers, which isn't exactly what you can say for BT.

 

[7thCabal]

IMO I think BT is in BP's pocket & the BG just wants more revenue streams. None of them care about people-- they care about getting your hard earned $$$ for things that really matter, like oil. LOL

 

[sherid]

I suppose Big Pharm could also be playing their role, but its kinda hard to believe that all the other NRT make as much money (even tho im sure they still do bring a lot) even a fraction of what big tobacco does.

Last year Pfizer paid the biggest fine ever paid and avoided Federal prosecution. Pfizer is also the maker of Chantix and a major player in the NRT game.

Feds found Pfizer too big to nail
By Drew Griffin and Andy Segal, CNN Special Investigations Unit
April 2, 2010 4:44 p.m. EDT

* Pfizer sales representatives illegally marketed painkiller Bextra
* Companies convicted of major health care fraud are excluded from Medicare, Medicaid
* Federal authorities allowed Pfizer subsidiary to plead guilty in fraud case


(CNN) -- Imagine being charged with a crime, but an imaginary friend takes the rap for you.

That is essentially what happened when Pfizer, the world's largest pharmaceutical company, was caught illegally marketing Bextra, a painkiller that was taken off the market in 2005 because of safety concerns.

When the criminal case was announced last fall, federal officials touted their prosecution as a model for tough, effective enforcement. "It sends a clear message" to the pharmaceutical industry, said Kevin Perkins, assistant director of the FBI's Criminal Investigative Division.

But beyond the fanfare, a CNN Special Investigation found another story, one that officials downplayed when they declared victory. It's a story about the power major pharmaceutical companies have even when they break the laws intended to protect patients.
Feds found Pfizer too big to nail - CNN.com

 

[wv2win]

When NJ Senator Lautenberg announced last year that PV's should be banned, who do you think provides his largest political donations by far? Big Pharm.

Big Pharm doesn't poor millions into advertizing NRT's because it is a small piece of their profits. It's a big piece. Big Pharm provides the funding for most of the zealot groups. Big Pharm is our biggest threat.

 

[StormFinch]

Try these numbers on for size, I posted links to the info somewhere but would have to look them up if anyone wants them.

Since the government changed the way pharmaceuticals are approved, at least half of the FDA's budget started coming directly from the pharmaceutical companies via their approval application fees. This info was published before the FDA took over tobacco.

When the FDA was given control of the tobacco industry they were also given the ability to collect fees from the companies. The estimated fees for this year is supposed to be approximately 235 million dollars, and that amount will continue to rise each year.

So, who really pays the salaries of FDA employees?

 

[Idaho Ron]

I think your right on big Pharm. also.

On another thread we figured out that the Gov. was loosing about $2.000.000.000.00 a year in taxes so far. Thats enough to stop us, because that figure will only get bigger. The Gov. doesnt really want us to quit smoking.

 

[Hoosier]

For a consipiracy to work it requires competency for a large number of people.

I cannot attribute competency to the US government for a large number of decades.

 

[CaptJay]

A conspiracy requires a lot of people working together efficiently and in secrecy. I doubt governments can manage that. Hanlon's Razor usually can safely be appliled: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I also don't think Big Tobacco plays that big a part – they need to be on the lookout for other things to market, because obviously, time for analogs is running out. Big Pharma, on the other hand, hopes to cash in on exactly that, and we are standing in their way. And I guess they have a much better stance when lobbying, too: After all, their only purpose ever is to get people better, isn't it? Right …

I actually subscribe to Hanlon's Razor here too - conspiracies are usually too much hard work and people have big mouths and short memories.

 

[DC2]

Bill Godshall claims that this is not a conspiracy, and he has been working with all of these groups, and the FDA, for many years. He says that this is simply a matter of the FDA trying to do their jobs, and that it is mainly one man who is spearheading this effort.


Meet Joshua Sharfstein, the face of death...

I am tempted to believe Mr. Godshall, and yet I can not shake the obvious from my mind.

 

[voltaire]

Damn, his teeth are so yellow - he's probably a closet smoker.