Could tobacco become illegal?

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JustMeAgain

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If the FDA has control over tobacco, then wouldn't it be a part of their inherient responsiblity to make all tobacco products illegal? How could they possibly rationalize (ok, I know government/rationalize is an oxymoron lol) continuing to allow what is a known carcinogin to be sold? Doesn't that defy their very purpose?

While part of me shudders at the idea, the other part wonders what kind of ruckus that would create? I can only imagine the riots that could be created by a million nicotine deprived, pi**ed off smokers.

That would probably never happen, but would they be grandfathering traditional tobacco? Could that create a loophole for ecigs?

This may have already been addressed somewhere, and if it has could someone please tell me where to find it?
 

GreySaber

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He has a point. The purpose of the FDA is to protect us from dangerous crapola. Tobacco is pretty well established to be dangerous crapola.

Indeed, anything imbibed recreationally is 'dangerous crapola.' Even most good food is!

So the inherent problem faced by our society is our base animal desire to imbibe things that give us joy, (Fatty foods, booze, nicotine, caffine, sugar, narcotics, pot, halicinogens, etc.)

We WANT These things. We want fats and a drunken buzz and some sweets and to get a throat hit and to see the damned music.

But, the left brain comes in and says, "That is bad for me. We should not do that anymore. These things should not be openly sold."

The FDA has that as it's core ideal. Now, that's not to say they are always that good at pursuing that core ideal, that's not to say there isn't corruption and incompetence and overzealtry, but at the end of the day, that is their ideal.

So, if they really do follow that ideal, they should outlaw that which is bad for us which we like.


Then the problem becomes...... (assuming they are successful at enforcing it and we don't have fried chicken smugglers under every other bush.... )

...becomes that we are all really healthy and rather unhappy. We come to ask the question of if we really want to become logical and healthy like Mr. Spock, or if we want to be free and wild, and perhaps not so healthy.


Dostoyevsky had a wonderful peice on this in "Notes from the underground."


It's rather long, but I think you will find joy in reading it.

Which is worse? Decide that for yourselves. They say that Cleopatra (excuse an instance from Roman history) was fond of sticking gold pins into her slave-girls' breasts and derived gratification from their screams and writhings. You will say that that was in the comparatively barbarous times; that these are barbarous times too, because also, comparatively speaking, pins are stuck in even now; that though man has now learned to see more clearly than in barbarous ages, he is still far from having learnt to act as reason and science would dictate. But yet you are fully convinced that he will be sure to learn when he gets rid of certain old bad habits, and when common sense and science have completely re-educated human nature and turned it in a normal direction. You are confident that then man will cease from intentional error and will, so to say, be compelled not to want to set his will against his normal interests.

That is not all; then, you say, science itself will teach man (though to my mind it's a superfluous luxury) that he never has really had any caprice or will of his own, and that he himself is something of the nature of a piano-key or the stop of an organ, and that there are, besides, things called the laws of nature; so that everything he does is not done by his willing it, but is done of itself, by the laws of nature. Consequently we have only to discover these laws of nature, and man will no longer have to answer for his actions and life will become exceedingly easy for him. All human actions will then, of course, be tabulated according to these laws, mathematically, like tables of logarithms up to 108,000, and entered in an index; or, better still, there would be published certain edifying works of the nature of encyclopaedic lexicons, in which everything will be so clearly calculated and explained that there will be no more incidents or adventures in the world.

Then--this is all what you say--new economic relations will be established, all ready-made and worked out with mathematical exactitude, so that every possible question will vanish in the twinkling of an eye, simply because every possible answer to it will be provided. Then the "Palace of Crystal" will be built. Then ... In fact, those will be halcyon days. Of course there is no guaranteeing (this is my comment) that it will not be, for instance, frightfully dull then (for what will one have to do when everything will be calculated and tabulated), but on the other hand everything will be extraordinarily rational. Of course boredom may lead you to anything.

It is boredom that sets one to sticking golden pins into people, but all that would not matter. What is bad (this is my comment again) is that I dare say people will be thankful for the gold pins then. Man is stupid, you know, phenomenally stupid; or rather he is not at all stupid, but he is so ungrateful that you could not find another like him in all creation. I, for instance, would not be in the least surprised if all of a sudden, a propos of nothing, in the midst of general prosperity a gentleman with an ignoble, or rather with a reactionary and ironical, countenance were to arise and, putting his arms akimbo, say to us all: "I say, gentleman, hadn't we better kick over the whole show and scatter rationalism to the winds, simply to send these logarithms to the devil, and to enable us to live once more at our own sweet foolish will!" That again would not matter, but what is annoying is that he would be sure to find followers--such is the nature of man. And all that for the most foolish reason, which, one would think, was hardly worth mentioning: that is, that man everywhere and at all times, whoever he may be, has preferred to act as he chose and not in the least as his reason and advantage dictated.

And one may choose what is contrary to one's own interests, and sometimes one positively ought (that is my idea). One's own free unfettered choice, one's own caprice, however wild it may be, one's own fancy worked up at times to frenzy--is that very "most advantageous advantage" which we have overlooked, which comes under no classification and against which all systems and theories are continually being shattered to atoms. And how do these wiseacres know that man wants a normal, a virtuous choice? What has made them conceive that man must want a rationally advantageous choice? What man wants is simply independent choice, whatever that independence may cost and wherever it may lead. And choice, of course, the devil only knows what choice.
 
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yvilla

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Why do you think Phillip Morris supports the pending legislation? It protects existing tobacco products, and specifically prohibits the FDA from banning all nicotine content, even though it will be allowed to order that it be reduced (thereby condemning those still smoking to buy and smoke more to get their needed level)!
 

WiηgC¤mmαηdεя

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He has a point. The purpose of the FDA is to protect us from dangerous crapola. Tobacco is pretty well established to be dangerous crapola.

Indeed, anything imbibed recreationally is 'dangerous crapola.' Even most good food is!

So the inherent problem faced by our society is our base animal desire to imbibe things that give us joy, (Fatty foods, booze, nicotine, caffine, sugar, narcotics, pot, halicinogens, etc.)

We WANT These things. We want fats and a drunken buzz and some sweets and to get a throat hit and to see the damned music.

But, the left brain comes in and says, "That is bad for me. We should not do that anymore. These things should not be openly sold."

The FDA has that as it's core ideal. Now, that's not to say they are always that good at pursuing that core ideal, that's not to say there isn't corruption and incompetence and overzealtry, but at the end of the day, that is their ideal.

So, if they really do follow that ideal, they should outlaw that which is bad for us which we like.

Hmmmm, has anyone seen the movie Demolition Man - Yes it would be a safer world, but I am not sure it would be very fun.

Quote from Wikipedia
"It is explained that anything deemed "bad for you" is now illegal, including alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, non-educational toys, meat, spicy and unhealthy food, table salt and tobacco. Firearms can only be seen in museums. Physical contact was recognized as causing the spread of disease and is now seen as unusual. "Sex" is no longer a physical act for the same reasons, and even kissing is not condoned. Instead, "Vir-Sex" is performed by using sex simulators worn on the participants' heads to replace physical intercourse. Procreation is carried out in a laboratory; abortion is illegal, but so is unlicensed pregnancy. Toilet paper has been replaced by a set of seashell-like items"
Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_Man_(film)
 

taz3cat

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Tobacco should not be banned IMO. It is a naturally growing plant. The producers of cigarettes, whom place 4000 chemicals and additives into their tobacco should be banned from selling them!!!!

There are several other natural growing plants that have been banned, made illigal, go to jail for possission. :evil:

I personal don't like any types of bans, anything that look, or smells like the goverment taking a way freedom of choice ets. I am a big girl, mental compentant and know what I want to do. I do not need big brother to protect me. :lol:

There are guardianships for those folks unable to protect themselves and the Judge makes the decision after all the facts are heard. :thumb:
 

Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah

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The verbiage of the Kennedy bill would not allow the FDA to remove tobacco cigarettes and chew tobacco from the marketplace....that's why PM is backing the bill - it locks them into top market-share. No competing products shown to be safer unless they're pharma products which are only for replacement/abstinence.

Which puts all of us right back to square 1 - quit or die. No other alternatives are legal.
 

Mitty

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the short answer is NO. The long answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Here's why

The 18th Amendment to teh Constitution and the Volstead Act of 1919 banned the production and sale of Alcohol , for the public good.

It backfired miserably. It was responsible for the rise of the gangs in Chicago and fuled a massive and bloody trade in illegal booze across the country. It is also the only amendment to be repealed.

If you make something that has been readily available for so long illegal you open the door for things far worse than what you tried to ban. Tobacco will go underground and become the new Moonshine. Human nature is what it is and no law in the world will get around that.

Ban e-cigs and I would be willing to bet you that juice and cartridges would still be available on a black market somewhere.

It's like I said on one of my many letters to officials to date and I quote" No Bill passed by Congress nor signed into law by you will prevent children from sealing tobacco products from their parents to satisfy their curiosities; no bill will prevent them from buying tobacco products when they reach legal age and no bill will prevent them from having legal adults purchase tobacco for them until they are of legal age. "

-mitty
 

Rexa

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Ban e-cigs and I would be willing to bet you that juice and cartridges would still be available on a black market somewhere.

I doubt tobacco will ever be banned but if they do anything regulatory on tobacco it may actually be for the better - such as removing alot of additive chemicals and pretty much making all smokes equivalent to that of American Spirits. Just sheer speculation here on my part since we didn't get there yet.

As for black market. I'd be very afraid of buying eliquid on a black market within the US. This would make prices skyrocket, not be much of an assurance that I'm getting the real thing and perhaps making it more of a "luxury item" than anything. Most likely, we'd be forced to purchase directly from China in low inconspicuous quantities, hope they label it as aroma therapy and just keep our fingers crossed that it makes it past customs undetected.
 

robbiehatfield

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the short answer is NO. The long answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Here's why

The 18th Amendment to teh Constitution and the Volstead Act of 1919 banned the production and sale of Alcohol , for the public good.

It backfired miserably. It was responsible for the rise of the gangs in Chicago and fuled a massive and bloody trade in illegal booze across the country. It is also the only amendment to be repealed.

If you make something that has been readily available for so long illegal you open the door for things far worse than what you tried to ban. Tobacco will go underground and become the new Moonshine. Human nature is what it is and no law in the world will get around that.

Ban e-cigs and I would be willing to bet you that juice and cartridges would still be available on a black market somewhere.

It's like I said on one of my many letters to officials to date and I quote" No Bill passed by Congress nor signed into law by you will prevent children from sealing tobacco products from their parents to satisfy their curiosities; no bill will prevent them from buying tobacco products when they reach legal age and no bill will prevent them from having legal adults purchase tobacco for them until they are of legal age. "

-mitty

True, and Joe Kennedy was one of the rum runners that made his family fortune during the reign of the 18th ammendment. Now his kid *Teddy* is trying to ultimately ban tobacco and e-cigs. What is it that they say about intelligence skipping a generation? ..

Robbie
 

robbiehatfield

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I doubt tobacco will ever be banned but if they do anything regulatory on tobacco it may actually be for the better - such as removing alot of additive chemicals and pretty much making all smokes equivalent to that of American Spirits. Just sheer speculation here on my part since we didn't get there yet.

As for black market. I'd be very afraid of buying eliquid on a black market within the US. This would make prices skyrocket, not be much of an assurance that I'm getting the real thing and perhaps making it more of a "luxury item" than anything. Most likely, we'd be forced to purchase directly from China in low inconspicuous quantities, hope they label it as aroma therapy and just keep our fingers crossed that it makes it past customs undetected.

There isn't much that the government can get involved in without screwing it up. I don't trust the goverment at all anymore. Too much greed, corruption, and did I mention greed?

Robbie
 
The verbiage of the Kennedy bill would not allow the FDA to remove tobacco cigarettes and chew tobacco from the marketplace....that's why PM is backing the bill - it locks them into top market-share. No competing products shown to be safer unless they're pharma products which are only for replacement/abstinence.

Which puts all of us right back to square 1 - quit or die. No other alternatives are legal.
Unless they are taxed...to death. remember..follow the money.
On another note, there is a line of guys with Klondike bars forming.:D
 

GreySaber

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The 18th Amendment to teh Constitution and the Volstead Act of 1919 banned the production and sale of Alcohol , for the public good.

It backfired miserably. It was responsible for the rise of the gangs in Chicago and fuled a massive and bloody trade in illegal booze across the country. It is also the only amendment to be repealed.

So it was like that whole prohibition of pot and coke and opium thing we've got going now? And you're telling me the Government and the speical interest groups won't make the same basic mistake again? Uh huh. ;)
 

Mitty

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What it all boils down to , at least with the Kennedy Bill and its like is this; it all for their image.

Congress has taken a lot of flack of late for wasting their time and our money on worthless debates, the Federal Marriage Amendment comes to mind. They seem to labour under the delusion that we all suffer from ADD and that by putting forth these pointless issues they are basically going " OH LOOK SHINEY" to distract us from their horrid track record.

" Oh look everyone we havent tackled the Deficite we're still at war all over the place and there is a lot of work to be done but by golly gee didn't we do somethign great for the Children jsut now? Isn't that worth something?"

That is all this is. Its an attempt to look like you're doing something proactive.

" I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is consicered a disgrace. That two usless men are a law firm and that three or more useless men are a Congress!" - President John Adams
 

deewal

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True, and Joe Kennedy was one of the rum runners that made his family fortune during the reign of the 18th ammendment. Now his kid *Teddy* is trying to ultimately ban tobacco and e-cigs. What is it that they say about intelligence skipping a generation? ..

Robbie
One of Joe Kennedy's eerrm "associates said these little gems.......

"If you have a lot of what people want and can't get,then you can supply the demand and shovel in the dough."- Charlie "Lucky" Luciano
The world is changing and there are new opportunities for those who are ready to join forces with those who are stronger and more experienced."Charlie "Lucky" Luciano
"Ever since we was kids,we always knew that people can be bought.It was only a question of who did the buyin' and for how much"-Charlie "Lucky" Luciano
"Behind every great fortune,there is a crime!"-Charlie "Lucky" Luciano
 
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