Could Vamping become adiction

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Alien Traveler

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If the nicotine in vaping is so addictive why are more vapers not upping their levels of nicotine in their juice?

Many juicers actually start to lower their nicotine levels as time goes on.

That would suggest to me that nicotine is not so addictive for most people. I'm no expert, just my personal observations.

Easy explanation. There are two main reasons:

1. Some vapers vape to quit smoking (me included) and for us lowering nic levels is a priority.
2. Some vapers vape for vape's sake. They started with relatively simple and less effective in nic delivery equipment, then "progressed" to RBA, RDA, subohming, superwattaging. They consume a lot of juice, so they have to decrease percent of nic so they do not overdose. For them actually consumed amount of nic could be even higher even with low nic juices.

Its simple.

I Vape to live and live to Vape.

O, no! I hope its a joke.
 

firerat

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1. Some vapers vape to quit smoking (me included) and for us lowering nic levels is a priority.

^^This....

2. Some vapers vape for vape's sake. They started with relatively simple and less effective in nic delivery equipment, then "progressed" to RBA, RDA, subohming, superwattaging. They consume a lot of juice, so they have to decrease percent of nic so they do not overdose. For them actually consumed amount of nic could be even higher even with low nic juices.

^^And this...

Heck even without getting into builds and drips and all the other stuff i had to lower real quick. These things just taste too good. But that was a lot of nicotine!!
 

skoony

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If the nicotine in vaping is so addictive why are more vapers not upping their levels of nicotine in their juice?

Many juicers actually start to lower their nicotine levels as time goes on.

That would suggest to me that nicotine is not so addictive for most people. I'm no expert, just my personal observations.

I Vape to live and live to Vape. (Just ordered some tee shirts with this logo lol)

Am I addicted to vaping? I don't believe I am. I actually feel free for the first time.

Could I lower the nicotine levels in my juice? Not at the moment because I would worry about going back to analogs.

Given time, however, I'm sure I won't have too much trouble doing so.

Will I ever give up vaping? I doubt it because I love it. It fulfills a need in me that IMHO has nothing to do with nicotine.

Vape on - happy vaping :)

that's an interesting question.
i myself after a year and 4 months of vaping still use 18 mg per ml.
right where i started. maybe i will reduce in the future but as of now
its neither a concern nor priority.
regards
mike
 

NealBJr

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Another article based on smoking and not nicotine addiction/dependency which makes any conclusions totally irrelevant, but even this said it wasn't that addictive.

There have been many articles about smoking and addiction. If you read in that article, it mentions the MAO's that work with the nicotine. So, the MAO's and nicotine become a "double whammy" and become an even more addictive property of cigarettes. However, the article itself does focus on the Nicotine itself and how Nicotine is addictive, not just smoking. Quitting vaping with nicotine is easier than quitting smoking. To sum that article up, Nicotine (not smoking) stimulate the adrenaline gland, and pretty much changes the output levels of the hormones your body naturally produce. It increases heart rate, and adjusts calcium levels to compensate. When you're taking nicotine every day, it becomes the norm... when you try to quit cold turkey, you will exhibit some withdrawl symptoms, but they're nowhere near what a regular cigarette smoker experiences.

Many articles about Nicotine tend to revolve around smoking. I agree, it is frustrating to read about nicotine, and they constantly mention smoking. Many articles do not seperate smoking and nicotine, and it really needs to be addressed in a lot of these articles. People who try to quit smoking by taking inhalers or gum realize... there's more to their addiction than just the nicotine.
 

twgbonehead

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I think the telling studies were ones that weren't intended to be studies of addiction.

There have been several strudies where nicotine was used (primarily in patch form) to test the effectiveness of nicotine as a therapy for alzheimers, ADD, and other ailments using never-smokers as a population.

When these studies ended, it was observed that the participants did not experience nicotine withdrawal symptoms, nor did they start smoking cigarettes. However, these results were just commentary, and not part of the formal scope of the studies.

Cigarette smoking is a multi-faceted habit that includes oral fixation, many different and interacting chemical/drug components, and social aspects. And there are many people for whom e-cigarettes are NOT a complete or satisfying substitute for cigarettes - but they do satisfy some of the habitual effects, and often enough of them to allow a smoker to quit in stages. They also provide side-benefits; being able to focus on it as a hobby/shopping opportunity, trying different flavors, relentlessly perusing ECF and FastTech, etc. which can be very useful "distractional" tools.


It's really not as cut-and-dried as many here (on both sides) seem to be implying.
 

danfinger

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Maybe addictive lots of people saying that but maybe the feeling of inhale..

Humans, can become addicted to an almost unlimited number of physical and mental stimuli. One can become addicted to vaping zero nic juice, shopping, eating clay, gambling, tattoos, hair pulling, chewing ice, cosmetic surgery, exercise, FOOD AND BOOZE! FOOD OR BOOZE!

Point being, none of those things (okay some trace amounts in some foods) have nicotine in them. You can still get addicted to any one of them IF you have an addictive personality.

I have a friend who kicked a pretty nasty ...... habit. He had gotten to the point where he was homeless, going to jail on the reg, looking at a hard short life if he didn't stop using. He did it. He kicked ...... to the curb. Clean for over 15 years. He told me that kicking cigarettes, tobacco cigarettes, was a thousand times harder than kicking the H. He gave two main reasons:
1) social ritualization. We have had it in our society for so long, it has become intertwined in our social identity. You can buy it at every corner store, see advertizing for it just about everywhere you look.
2) social stigmatization. ...... use is very socially stigmatizing. You very rarely see people shooting up outside in the open. But you can see literally thousands on a given day in anyCity's downtown outside lighting up.

So my point being- set aside what study has or has not been done. The argument is pointless. Humans can and do get addicted to all manner of behaviors and substances. It is the level of self control the person engaged in those activities has that determines whether they will be addicted or not. And how well they handle those addictions. There are plenty of addicts in the world that lead happy productive lives. I'm addicted to caffeine, but I own a home, good job, happy life. Get beyond the whole addiction boogy-man. We're all addicted to something- the important questions are ARE YOU HAPPY? IS YOUR ADDICTION SCREWING UP YOUR LIFE/HAPPINESS?


Look what it did to "Bleeding Gums" Murphy:

I'd like another Faberge egg, please.
Sir, don't you think you've had enough?

dangersofaddiction.png
 
Nicotine can be rather addictive, and as Brettanomyces said long ago, if someone who isn't already addicted to nicotine was interested in starting to vape, I would totally recommend 0mg nicotine ejuice. When I switched from analog cigarettes to vaping, I started with 18mg nicotine ejuice, and I have slowly stepped it down to about 6mg now. My goals are to go down to 3mg and maybe 0mg at some point!
 

DaveOno

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One of my big concerns is if someone start vaping will this person become nicotine addict or something like that.:confused:
I think the nicotine addiction is real, but not a big worry.

What is addictive is this forum, Black Friday sales, contests, all the new shiney batteries and mods and tanks and RBAs and...

omg juices hundreds and hundreds of flavors!!!

Funny you called it vamping. Another member told us a story where her and her husband went to his elderly Mom's house for the weekend. This mother-in law is a bit, er, weird. But although our couple only vaped outside, the MIL swore the fumes got into her house and now she is wheezing, etc. So the MIL said, "I don't want you two doing anymore of that dang vamping around here!!!

Since then, the inside joke is calling it vamping!
 

mkbilbo

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Then why did you start vaping instead of just quitting smoking cold turkey? I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything I'm just saying I know I'm very addicted to nicotine that's why I switched from smoking to vaping. I couldn't just quit smoking on my own because the cravings would get so bad that I would eventually pick up cigs again. That's what addiction is. If I wasn't addicted I would have just put cigs down for good a long time ago with no problem because I wouldn't be having hardcore nic cravings.

Which is why "not addictive" doesn't work. If so, what the heck is vaping anyway? Why does it work at all? Are we all just deluding ourselves?

Since the only thing in common is the nicotine, the people who switch to vaping must--to varying degrees--be addicted to nicotine. Otherwise, why does vaping even exist?

Yeah, the ANTZ are being flatly hysterical. And, yeah, addiction is a poorly understood and complex subject. And, certainly, we know the tobacco companies got caught working to increase the addictive power of their products with chemicals other than nicotine. Some of which worked to enhance nicotine, some of which were just... addictive. But we have a fairly decent understanding of how nicotine triggers dopamine and that is the ultimate "addictive substance". Dopamine is the reason you got out of bed this morning. It's, basically, the reason we humans do anything. It's called "the reward neurotransmitter. It's that satisfied, "ah" feeling when you accomplish something. So we're talking about a substance (nicotine) that can hook into a very powerful "drive". Yeah, that's addiction potential there.

But one thing the rabid self-righteous never want to talk about is there is no "universal" addiction. Actually, with any addiction, it's always a fraction that becomes addicted. And an even smaller fraction that becomes strongly addicted. I was always mystified by "social smokers". How could they just pick cigs up then put them down? I craved the things. I have a relative like that. Started smoking some then stopped. Might have one here and there but go for weeks without. Got bored with 'em, never did it again.

When the big, anti-smoking push started, all we had was "will power". NRT and the rest came later. Yet our smoking rate plummeted. To whatever degree those people were addicted it was less than I was (well, "am" if you're talking nicotine). "Drug warriors" don't want to talk about the fact that most people who dabble in street drugs when young just quit as they mature. But that's the reality. It's always a minority of the total that becomes addicted. Always. Across the board.

Heh, when I was younger, I thought caffeine addiction was some kind of joke. I'm serious, I thought people were kidding around. Um... no, no they aren't. I've seen it. It didn't look fun. See, I like coffee (a lot) but if I forget to buy some and there's none in the house, I just mutter and put it on the grocery list. I've stopped drinking it cold at times in my life. Did sudden switches to decaf when I thought maybe the coffee was contributing to a run of insomnia. Thinking of dropping it now. Got put on fluid restrictions and that meant cutting waaaaay back on the morning coffee. Seems kinda pointless now.

My point in all of this is, sure, nicotine is an addictive substance but like all addictive substances, not everybody will become addicted. And those who do are on a spectrum of addiction, it's not "binary". Any addiction is a matter of degree. And a bit of a "crap shoot". In that you won't know if any substance is addictive to you nor the degree it is addictive for you until it's too late to back out.

My suspicions are that vaping primarily works for the strongly nicotine addicted set. The fact that my own switch was relatively easy suggests to me that mine is a straight up, very powerful nicotine addiction. There were some bumpy periods but they were nothing like the nightmares my quit attempts were. And I still feel a "craving". Not as strident as with cigs but it's there. It reared its head some weeks ago when I hadn't vaped for some... I dunno how long... period I was doing something with my truck and a plumber that came to fix a pipe was a smoker and for the first time this year, I wanted one. It'd been long enough for the feeling to startle me. I had gotten used to the smell of smoke not affecting me.

And, yeah, the VTR came outta the pocket and I vaped the craving away. As in I was around the guy and, man, he must smoke like I did because the smell was everywhere. When he opened the door of his truck, you'd a thought he had a cig factory in there. Must be what I smelled like back then.

The ANTZ oversimplify (well, they're not the brightest bulbs on the string). There are just tons of other chemicals in tobacco smoke and different people will react differently to them. Add in the "psych" part (like the smoking "ritual"... I've adopted NJoy's rechargeable as my secondary device because sometimes I want to... play smoke?). It would be surprising if current vaping helped all remaining smokers. The addiction is too complex for any one thing to work universally. Clearly, it can help a lot. Saving many lives. I'd bet, though, we're talking mostly the fraction (of unknown size) for whom nicotine is the central addictive element.

Okay, I'm getting offa this soap box before I slip and twist an ankle or something...
 

NealBJr

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I disagree with this. This sort of subject matter NEEDS to be discussed. NOT talking about all the possible side effects of vaping is the worst thing that can happen to Ecigarettes. People need to know how different it is from smoking. They need to know exactly what we're inhaling and exhaling. Without them knowing, they'll just assume... and I've heard many people say stuff like "you're smoking antifreeze", or "It's just a new type of cigarette". There are many myths floating around about ecigs, nicotine, and threads like this help others weed out the truth.

People need to realize that the addiction to nicotine is totally different from the addiction to smoking. Threads like this are not pointless. ECF is linked from google, and even though they may read these posts, you may never know. Someone may be thinking of using Ecigs as a method of quitting smoking. They may google "are ecigarettes addictive" because they are concerned that it is just a replacement. Hopefully, they'll read this thread and learn.
 

NealBJr

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Or well explain why other NRT doesn't work, many people here have tried other options with no success yet vaping works this makes no sense if it's because of nicotine addiction.

There is a reason why Vaping has a higher chance of success at quitting smoking than NRTs. Yes, it's the Nicotine that's the reason, but there's more to it than just the chemical.

I mentioned earlier that there are MAO's in cigarettes that combined with Cigarettes make it a "double whammy". That's because MAO's stimulate Dopamine, and Nictotine stimulate adrenaline. When they take both together, your body "learns" from the MAO's that smoking grants that "success" feeling, and the nicotine increases the adrenaline.. So, when you smoke, it's getting both at the same time. It is that reason that people become addicted to a "routine"... that is all driven by the MAO, and Nicotine is part of that routine.

Now, if you were to stop the MAO's, and just take nicotine by gum, then you are not reinforcing the MAO's routine. Your mind will say "hey, it's nicotine yes, but this is not the normal correct way to take nicotine". The MAO's have taught your brain that smoking = nicotine.. and that's the key to breaking the smoking habbit.

Vaping, on the other hand, has the same habits as smoking.. the inhaling, the wisp of smoke comming up from the mouth area, the heat, and the slight hit at the back of your throat... all these have been rewired in your brain through smoking... The brain then expects nicotine when you vape, and usually the vape give sit nicotine. Getting your brain to fully accept vaping as a means to get your nicotine usually takes a while. Some people can do it immediately, others need time. But, your brain will eventually re-learn.
 

Norrin

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There is a reason why Vaping has a higher chance of success at quitting smoking than NRTs. Yes, it's the Nicotine that's the reason, but there's more to it than just the chemical.

I mentioned earlier that there are MAO's in cigarettes that combined with Cigarettes make it a "double whammy". That's because MAO's stimulate Dopamine, and Nictotine stimulate adrenaline. When they take both together, your body "learns" from the MAO's that smoking grants that "success" feeling, and the nicotine increases the adrenaline.. So, when you smoke, it's getting both at the same time. It is that reason that people become addicted to a "routine"... that is all driven by the MAO, and Nicotine is part of that routine.

Now, if you were to stop the MAO's, and just take nicotine by gum, then you are not reinforcing the MAO's routine. Your mind will say "hey, it's nicotine yes, but this is not the normal correct way to take nicotine". The MAO's have taught your brain that smoking = nicotine.. and that's the key to breaking the smoking habbit.

Vaping, on the other hand, has the same habits as smoking.. the inhaling, the wisp of smoke comming up from the mouth area, the heat, and the slight hit at the back of your throat... all these have been rewired in your brain through smoking... The brain then expects nicotine when you vape, and usually the vape give sit nicotine. Getting your brain to fully accept vaping as a means to get your nicotine usually takes a while. Some people can do it immediately, others need time. But, your brain will eventually re-learn.
Yes, but I think you are exaggerating the need for the nicotine, it's the routine that is addictive more than anything. The nicotine effect is so small that it can easily be removed from vaping if the user wants. So getting back to the topic of the thread, there is nothing to worry about in regards to a non smoker using an e-cig with nicotine because the nicotine isn't addictive enough to make them want to do it.
 

khalidmna

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I was concerned I would become addicted to vaping when I first started, and did vape a lot the first two weeks. I think we tend to vape a lot initially because it's a bit of trial and error trying to find the right level, and also like anything new, we like using it more. For me, once I found my nicotine level and the novelty factor wore off, I settled into a routine. I don't think nicotine is that addictive, IMHO, because as opposed to analogs I don't crave it as much. Good luck.
 
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mkbilbo

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Or well explain why other NRT doesn't work, many people here have tried other options with no success yet vaping works this makes no sense if it's because of nicotine addiction.

Well... yes and no. NRT is insanely low nic. The gum, for example, is 2mg and 4mg. I was able, myself, to hold out longest on the gum but had definite withdrawal going on. Far more severe than anything that happened when I switched to vaping. The interesting thing about my own experience was the patch flopped pretty badly. The gum allows some "titration". Some control over how much nic you're getting. But I dunno anybody's all that clear how much or how fast absorption is through the mouth as opposed to the lungs. I sure don't see any clear "patterns" in vaping. People go every which way. :)

Some people do manage to switch to a nic gum habit and stay off cigs (one said to be the President, he's apparently seen with the gum packs quite often).

And there are other aspects to smoking addiction. Clearly. Vaping does better at dealing with some of the "psych" aspects as it "feels like" smoking in many ways. Gum and patches don't.

The ANTZ do massively oversimplify. Nicotine is an addictive substance but to what degree for how many people? Uh... dunno? All the studies (or almost all) are studies of smoking. Which has a truckload of other chemicals that interact in who knows how many ways with folks' body chemistries? I mean, MAOIs? Really? No wonder Wellbutrin worked to help some quit smoking. No wonder smoking rates among folks prone to depression run high.

The ANTZ are dangerously simple minded. Nicotine alone is almost certainly less addictive than the chemical cocktail that is cigarette smoke. And probably fewer are prone to become addicted to nicotine alone. I suspect that's why we see many vapers "taper off" their nic and go to zero. Get past the other addictive elements of smoking, some find their addiction to nicotine alone isn't all that strong. Myself, I think I may have won the lottery. I had an easy time switching but going off nicotine isn't likely. I think in my case the other elements in the addiction were the weaker and the nicotine is strong.

But that may easily mean I'm in a subset of the vape population. And a smaller fraction of the smoking population. No way to tell. Not enough studies. Everything is about "smoking" then the ANTZ blame nicotine alone. And I want to beat my head against a wall. Addiction is just not a simple subject.

Worse still is the distinct possibility that some people benefit from nicotine. What if I have a strong nic addiction because of a chemical imbalance in my brain chemistry that nicotine helps with? I've seen some research showing nic patches can help the elderly with memory. Maybe straight up nic addicts are that way because nic is good for them?

That'd ne pretty damn ironic...
 
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