Council considers stricter smoking laws

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Petrodus

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Council considers stricter smoking laws

A major change to Petaluma’s smoking ordinance that includes a ban on smoking
in all apartments & condominium complexes, as well as many outdoor and public areas.....

Slow news week ...
No mention of e-cigarettes, however, that could come later.

Now the Nanny State wants to ban smoking in private homes.
This ban goes beyond government housing and applies to
ALL apartments and condominium complexes ... and more.

If you live in an apartment ... that's your private home !!
UNTIL "The State" decides otherwise !!

PS: "The Police will be enforcing the new laws"
Oh, Goodie ... Here comes the "Smoking Police" !!!
:ohmy:
 
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tony.he

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DC2

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The air-borne Nanny State Virus is highly infectious
and quickly spreading across America.
That's why I'm thinking that if I just want to be left alone I may eventually need to move.
But really, where can one move it one wants to be left alone?

There seems to be a Nanny in every corner.
In every country.
In every state.

In every nook and cranny.
So really, where can one go these days to be free?
 

Petrodus

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Ever wondered why so very many love the Nanny State ??

Well ... Think about a child who feels comfortable knowing Mommie is always
there to cook dinner and take care of all the needs. A child feels secure not
having lots of choices. Mommie will decide what's best.

A child might throw a temper tantrum, but feels secure that running away from
home is not permitted. There's an uncertain world out there without Mommie watching
out and protecting.

Mommie will tell you not only what you should and shouldn't do ...
Mommie will also tell you what to believe. No real need to worry
and make decisions on your own that might be incorrect or cause harm.
Don't worry or think for yourself ... Mommie is here !!
 
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Berylanna

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So, I just mailed this to the Petaluma City Council members:

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

As a sometime visitor to Petaluma, I am dismayed that the American Lung Association member who presented information on electronic cigarettes to the city council was presenting information to you that is 4 years out-of-date. Here is the statement from the American Association of Public Health Physicians: American Association of Public Health Physicians - Tobacco which includes:

Principles to Guide AAPHP tobacco Policy
1. AAPHP tobacco policy should be based on the best available scientific evidence.
2. Tobacco use is a major cause of illness and death in the United States.
3. Almost all tobacco-attributable mortality in the USA is due to cigarette smoking.
10. smokers unable or uninterested in quitting should consider switching. to a less hazardous smoke-free tobacco/nicotine product for as long as they feel the need for such a product. Such products include pharmaceutical Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) products used, off-label, on a long term basis;, electronic “e” cigarettes, dissolvables (sticks, strips and orbs), snus, other forms of moist snuff, and chewing tobacco.

I have not found any research at all by the ALA that shows any harm from electronic cigarette vapor. The FDA's published actual study results (which do not agree with their own press release!) showed nothing more harmful in e-liquid than what is in FDA-approved patches or nicotine inhalers.

There has been a study that proves the second-hand vapor from electronic cigarettes is no more harmful than second-hand coffee steam from the next table over:
Latest Studies Confirm E-Cigarette Vapor Safety

There has been a study showing that electronic cigarettes are much more successful at getting long-term smokers who did not want to quit, to quit anyway. The information on these studies can be found at CASAA.org, a consumer group for smoke-free alternatives. (Yes, I'm a member.)

The contents of the e-liquid are very very well-known: propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine, which are in a lot of foods and medicines, and in asthma inhalers, stage smoke (recently used in clouds around children to make an anti-smoking commercial!), food flavorings, and small amounts of nicotine. The nicotine was NOT exhaled, nor we most of the other ingredients not counting food flavorings.

Banning this in peoples' homes will have the side-effect of encouraging continued smoking, as there will be no advantage to offset the expense and difficulty of learning to use e-cigs. This in turn will lead to more second-hand smoke and cigarette butts in your city, as people who might have otherwise switched decide they might as well not bother. Worse, both the no-smoking and no-vaping parts of the law will be heavily ignored, but as baby-boomers age, the danger of fires from falling asleep while smoking combustibles will rise. There is no fire or combustion in e-cigs. Major brands all have a 10-second timer in the switch which means that even if someone were to fall asleep with their finger pressing the button, there will be no fire. Ask your Fire Chief which he'd prefer.




(My real name) Grandmother, Frequent driver of 101, Software Engineer, ex-smoker.
 

patkin

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I think this was already enforced in Sacramento a few years back. Not that I agree with it but, if you're paying rent, it's not your private home. It's more like a long-term hotel. Just like a landlord can restrict you from painting the walls.

Actually I'm more concerned with the infringement by government on private businesses. Motels/hotels, in my experience, have smoking/non-smoking rooms and provide them with a view to profits and their business prospering. If this ordinance is written in a way that the apartment complex owners can be fined if they offer both areas also as some do with, for example, children or pets already then its up to the businesses to sue and make the city council aware, as a group of merchants, that they intend to do so costing the city (tax payers) the price of litigation. Other businesses have done so over this sort of thing including motels/hotels offering rooms for "illicit" activities. The law has to prove the owner is running a brothel... ie: taking a cut for that particular activity otherwise what the patron does in the room is their own business and none of the owner's. Some landlords would see renting to smokers as an opportunity to make more money by charging higher rent/desposits in smoking units... same way they have with children/pets. I really find it hard to believe businesses are just going to lay down and get walked over this way.
 
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Berylanna

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Despite the more and more socialist country we seem to be living in, I try to look on the bright side... maybe for my sanity... but, this proposed ordinance may boomerang on them. It may actually create more vapers. Who is going to know they're doing that in their apartment?

Sure, but since a major reason they voted this in is the Mayor is under treatment for bladder cancer and his Dr. told him second-hand-smoke is quite possibly a major contributor to his cancer, plus the chief of police AND someone from the ALA showed up at the city council meeting and presented their views, I want the city council to know they blew it. What they do after is their problem. Once councilman said, after the ALA lady was done talking, that for now they have to go with the science and if that changes, he'll reconsider.

So I wanted to let them know...it's ALREADY changed. Education.

If vaping at home gets banned someplace and there is a house fire caused by smoking, I'd like to see the city pay the damages, including any wrongful death awards.
 

Agorizer

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I think this was already enforced in Sacramento a few years back. Not that I agree with it but, if you're paying rent, it's not your private home. It's more like a long-term hotel. Just like a landlord can restrict you from painting the walls.

Not at all equivalent: someone (the landlord) setting the terms of a mutually agreed to contract-vs-guys with guns telling the two parties to a contract what is in the contract.
 

Lessifer

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Not at all equivalent: someone (the landlord) setting the terms of a mutually agreed to contract-vs-guys with guns telling the two parties to a contract what is in the contract.

I didn't mean the law was like that, I was referring to the OP's comment about an apartment being your private home. It isn't
 
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Agorizer

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I didn't mean the law was like that, I was referring to the OP's comment about an apartment being your private home. It isn't
If one is renting the space, it is THEIR space-subject to the agreement made with the owner. Being subject to A LAW that decides what the owner can or cannot allow (father raping and mother stabbing excluded, of course,) in the agreement is NOT the same as the owner telling the renter how loud their stereo can be. It is theft of the rentOrs property rights. The latter is a reason to be his renter or not. I realize you didn't MEAN that, but an inculcated (by the state mandatory edjucasun system that most of us went through) confusion about the difference between "public" and "private" creeps into most people's reasoning without them realizing it.
Just pointing out the obvious, but obfuscated mistaken premise there. Thank you, that is all.
Peace, Freedom, and Heavy :vapor:
 
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Petrodus

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Interesting ... I saw a reporter on TV today asking a state official
a question on this subject.

Why would Smoking be banned in your own home (apartment)
while smoking "legal" medical "pot" is OK?
:p

The state official just stuttered and then said ...
"Well, we are just addressing the primary concern of 2nd hand tobacco smoke".
 
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