Des Moines hospital extends smoke-free workplace to nicotine-free workers

[LeAnn]

Part of the problem is that our government perpetuates the lie that "all tobacco products are equally hazardous." Witness the recent statement about "health fraud" published by FDA on its web site. Health Fraud

So why wouldn't your employer believe that they are saving you from yourself by forbidding the use of all tobacco products. But the truth is that smokeless tobacco products are 99% less hazardous than inhaling smoke. This is proven over and over by studies on smokers who switched to snus compared with smokers who quit all use of tobacco. No higher disease rates, and no difference in life expectency. But as long as the FDA, CDC, WHO, AMA, ACS, ALA, AHA, and other alpabet soup gangs keep repeating the lie, public health will suffer.

I firmly believe we are becoming a communist country, if you want to work to earn a living, you have to follow their rules, if you want health insurance so you won't go bankrupt if you get sick, you have to follow their rules, when is it that us common people with no police records or disabilites get to make our own rules? When you have worked for a company for as long as I have, you'd think they would listen to us but they don't want anyone's opinion,it's kinda like the FDA wants to put all these rules on us vapers but they don't have any scienitfic proof that e-cigs are bad as cigarettes? They also aren't for sure that nic is all bad, I have heard it's beneficial to many ailments. I know it is for me cause when I don't have nic I get sick in one way or another and that's the truth. The doctor likes to laugh at me but everytime I have gotten off nic something bad healthwise has happened to me. When I get my daily dose of nic I am never sick and since I have started vaping I have not had a cold or virus or any of the bad stuff going around, so what does that prove!

 

[rothenbj]

Agreed. I asked an insurance company employee why all NRT users were required to pay smoker rates and that's exactly what I was told - because they'll go back to smoking.

Of course that same insurance company also has a solution to that: join their cessation program and use their recommended NRT products. For which you'll continue to pay smoker rates, because it means you'll go back to smoking.

He could have just as easily said "It's all about the money" and been more honest. They could test for CO, but they prefer testing for nicotine. They might end up getting less in premiums and actually assess those at greater risk with CO and that wouldn't be cost effective.

 

[Vap0rJay]

I firmly believe we are becoming a communist country, if you want to work to earn a living, you have to follow their rules, if you want health insurance so you won't go bankrupt if you get sick, you have to follow their rules, when is it that us common people with no police records or disabilites get to make our own rules? When you have worked for a company for as long as I have, you'd think they would listen to us but they don't want anyone's opinion,it's kinda like the FDA wants to put all these rules on us vapers but they don't have any scienitfic proof that e-cigs are bad as cigarettes? They also aren't for sure that nic is all bad, I have heard it's beneficial to many ailments. I know it is for me cause when I don't have nic I get sick in one way or another and that's the truth. The doctor likes to laugh at me but everytime I have gotten off nic something bad healthwise has happened to me. When I get my daily dose of nic I am never sick and since I have started vaping I have not had a cold or virus or any of the bad stuff going around, so what does that prove!

History has a funny way of repeating itself. Just remember:

Once upon a time in Nazi Germany we had the "Motherland"
Once upon a time in Communist Russia we had the "Fatherland"
Present day, it's all about the "Homeland"

Same rhetoric... Scary implications.

 

[DaveP]

Corporations make health rules based on statistics that fit a segment of the population and financial impact statements. Someone in power got tired of seeing employees taking smoke breaks in the designated area and found a way to make them stop. The worst of the bunch are former smokers who still get that, "Wish I could have one!" urge sometimes when they smell tobacco smoke.

The insurance companies base their rates on actuarial tables which tell them that smokers miss more time from work because of sickness. "More" is an ambiguous term. The actual likelihood of a smoker missing work may just be based on genealogical make-up rather than the fact that they smoke. Standing outside in the cold doesn't help, either.

I worked for the same company for 36 years. I missed a total of 25 days during that time. I smoked throughout my employment. 18 of those days was for appendicitis the year before I retired. I was ready to go back, but the doctor wouldn't release me. That's an average of .69 days per year sick. Not bad, huh?

Statistics paint a skewed picture. You can find articles that say smokers missed 5.5 more days sick per year than non-smokers. I suppose that women with small children missed more days than women with no children. Do we discriminate against Moms? There are also statistics that say smokers are less productive than non-smokers. Is that because they made us go outside and walk off the edge of the property to satisfy our habit? Are we sicker because we are forced to stand in the rain, heat, and cold?

Be real, employers! How many of your employees are overweight? We are constantly bombarded with health reports that say fat people aren't healthy. Are they a good example of what doctors tell people about weight, cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood sugar? Why don't you take it all the way and only hire people with perfect blood chemistry profiles, DNA profiles, and beautiful smiling faces? "Don't eat that Twinky! They'll fire you!"

 

[Vocalek]

No. I think some employers are going outside of statistics and making up rules to fit their own personal prejudices. There is zero evidence that long-term use of NRTs raises disease rates or causes early death. We have decades of research on users of Swedish snus that shows that smokers who switch to snus have no higher rates of diseases and have an equivalent life expectency when compared with former smokers who gave up using any form at all of nicotine. Both of these types of products provide nicotine without any smoke.

There is also the factor of drawing conclusions based on insufficient evidence. Many antis have seen that most folks who try to quit by using NRTs relapse to smoking. They conclude from this that the nicotine is somehow to blame.

What they fail to take into account is that maybe, just maybe, if you give a smoker enough nicotine to more closely replicate the blood levels that they get from smoking, they won't have any urges to go back to smoking. Since they consider this a "dangerous experiment" to try, there is no research proving or disproving it.

There is only the life experience of long term former smokers (longer than 1 year) that are using e-cigarettes, NRTs, snus, or some other form of low-risk nicotine as a permanent replacement for their smoking.

 

[LeAnn]

I know that I will fight if they raise my insurance, cause my doctor, who works for the same company, says she's happy that I am on e-cigs instead of analogs and I am going to speak to her about this in Sept when I go for my check-up. I think they are starting to back down cause there were so many complaints and I use e-cigs as a NRT cause if I don't I may go back to analogs. I enjoy vaping so much more than smoking that I don't want to go back to analogs! If they raise my rate then they will have to raise the rate of all the employers that are using patches,gum or chantix! I will fight them for sure!

 

[Azcyclefan]

Wow, I can't believe they can do this. Its completely against everything our country stands for. Whats next? No smoking in your own home? Wait even better. How bout we all carry a set of large orange road cones. When we smoke we will construct a 20ft square cone barrier around ourselves. A bull horn would be good too, just so you can announce to all the non smokers that the cancer monster is in there mist.

 

[skex]

I firmly believe we are becoming a communist country, if you want to work to earn a living, you have to follow their rules, if you want health insurance so you won't go bankrupt if you get sick, you have to follow their rules, when is it that us common people with no police records or disabilites get to make our own rules? When you have worked for a company for as long as I have, you'd think they would listen to us but they don't want anyone's opinion,it's kinda like the FDA wants to put all these rules on us vapers but they don't have any scienitfic proof that e-cigs are bad as cigarettes? They also aren't for sure that nic is all bad, I have heard it's beneficial to many ailments. I know it is for me cause when I don't have nic I get sick in one way or another and that's the truth. The doctor likes to laugh at me but everytime I have gotten off nic something bad healthwise has happened to me. When I get my daily dose of nic I am never sick and since I have started vaping I have not had a cold or virus or any of the bad stuff going around, so what does that prove!

A communist country would not let employers set individual restrictions on workers like this. It would have universal standards or those standards would be determined by the employees themselves in a democratic manner.

You are confusing Communism with Fascism. Fascism is a state where the interest of the corporation is paramount.

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini

 

[LeAnn]

I really don't care what they call it, it just sucks! Home of the brave and land of the free, isn't that what it's all about? We aren't free if they tell us what we can and can't do are we? I have worked for this company for 19 yrs in August and I feel like my rights are being taken away each and every year and I don't like the fact that this country is getting worse and worse, I know we need rules and regulatons to protect our society but come on, don't raise my insurance rates cause I have an addiction and don't tell me that if I smell like smoke that I will be sent home to change without pay, guess that is fascism and I don't like it!!!!

 

[Demarko]

I really don't care what they call it, it just sucks! Home of the brave and land of the free, isn't that what it's all about? We aren't free if they tell us what we can and can't do are we? I have worked for this company for 19 yrs in August and I feel like my rights are being taken away each and every year and I don't like the fact that this country is getting worse and worse, I know we need rules and regulatons to protect our society but come on, don't raise my insurance rates cause I have an addiction and don't tell me that if I smell like smoke that I will be sent home to change without pay, guess that is fascism and I don't like it!!!!

It's a somewhat important distinction, since both terms are thrown around a lot lately accusing one party or the other of being similar to one or the other - especially when you see someone say they are for worker's rights, therefore they're a fascist, it kinda muddies the insult pool

 

[Thulium]

It's a somewhat important distinction, since both terms are thrown around a lot lately accusing one party or the other of being similar to one or the other - especially when you see someone say they are for worker's rights, therefore they're a fascist, it kinda muddies the insult pool

Can't get our communist pigs mixed up with our fascist dogs, now can we? ...Might forget which of the two parties we're supposed to vote for.

 

[rbuck9]

the way all this goes is very simple,the old saying give them an inch and they will
take a mile.rings true for this as it does for the gov,and until people stand up,
and put there money and votes in the right place this will continue and get
very rampant