Determining Flavor Percents

[FreeTimeNow]

Reading the previous posts on this and a couple of them had a suggestion to figure out what percent of a flavor hit the sweet spot for you by increasing small amts in like 3 mil of pg.
My question is is that then the percent you want to use when making a multi-flavor juice?

 

[Hoosier]

Probably not, but it might be.

That may seem like an inane response, but combining flavoring can do some odd things.

Then keep in mind what is actually happening...IF I had a single flavoring mix at 10% and another at 20% and I mixed those together 50\50, I would have a final mix of 15% total flavoring. Think about that for a second, not 30%,..but 15%...so if I were under the mistaken impression that my flavoring that works at 20% in a single mix had to stay at 20% for a combination mix, I'd be making plenty of crappy juice before I ever figured it out.

 

[VapinWolf]

Probably not, but it might be.

That may seem like an inane response, but combining flavoring can do some odd things.

Then keep in mind what is actually happening...IF I had a single flavoring mix at 10% and another at 20% and I mixed those together 50\50, I would have a final mix of 15% total flavoring. Think about that for a second, not 30%,..but 15%...so if I were under the mistaken impression that my flavoring that works at 20% in a single mix had to stay at 20% for a combination mix, I'd be making plenty of crappy juice before I ever figured it out.

Took reading it twice to get what you are saying. (And thinking it out, well, more than twice LOL)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Boletus]

That is where knowing what each individual flavor brings to a mix is useful. By testing each alone to find how strong you like it, when you use it in a mix, you can get an idea if it needs a bit more of this or a bit less of that. I play around with combining single flavor juices in a clearo and seeing how different proportions work, but getting the right % for each flavor in a mix, is a complex process, as Hoosier implied. That's why keeping notes for each experiment is useful. Another possibly helpful method is to read several recipes for mixes that use a given juice, and see what others use for a starting point, but again, you will want to make adjustments for your taste. The more original a recipe is, the more hunting you will need to do.

 

[FreeTimeNow]

That is where knowing what each individual flavor brings to a mix is useful. By testing each alone to find how strong you like it, when you use it in a mix, you can get an idea if it needs a bit more of this or a bit less of that. I play around with combining single flavor juices in a clearo and seeing how different proportions work, but getting the right % for each flavor in a mix, is a complex process, as Hoosier implied. That's why keeping notes for each experiment is useful. Another possibly helpful method is to read several recipes for mixes that use a given juice, and see what others use for a starting point, but again, you will want to make adjustments for your taste. The more original a recipe is, the more hunting you will need to do.

Both extremely helpful replies. Now for maybe a dumb question, but would you just taste the flavor as you experiment and then vape it when your taste buds say "close" or just vape right away. This DIY is going to take a lot longer than learning how to do builds!

 

[VapinWolf]

Both extremely helpful replies. Now for maybe a dumb question, but would you just taste the flavor as you experiment and then vape it when your taste buds say "close" or just vape right away. This DIY is going to take a lot longer than learning how to do builds!

I recommend taste and vape each experiment. I have had several that vaped nothing like the taste suggested it 'should'. Others vaped just like they tasted. Aroma is the same way, I have smelled someone's blueberry vape across the room, but could barely detect the taste of blueberry when I vaped it. Funny how that works out sometimes.

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[Hoosier]

Eh, vape it right away at "close" and put some back for a bit to see if it changes with some time out of sunlight in a sealed bottle. (steep)

Mix up a new batch of "close" while you're at it and split that one up into smaller bottles. Run some experiments on those smaller bottles to see if you can hit Perfect.

Can't remember if I covered that in my blogs...

 

[Boletus]

Both extremely helpful replies. Now for maybe a dumb question, but would you just taste the flavor as you experiment and then vape it when your taste buds say "close" or just vape right away. This DIY is going to take a lot longer than learning how to do builds!

It is definitely an iterative process. I try to vape up everything I make,even if it is barely acceptable. This may sound silly, but becoming more familiar with the things I thought I would like, but then didn't, is useful to me (beyond being a miser). I'll try to resurrect some mixes, and that process is quite educational. Good ideas, bad ideas, close but no cigar; I try to own all of them. And of course juice changes over time, as do my tastes. That thing I was ready to throw away a month ago all of a sudden becomes the secret ingredient at a very low concentration that puts the icing on the cake.

And IMO, making decent juice is not hard at all, but making great juice with an original recipe is not easy at all.

 

[FreeTimeNow]

That is where knowing what each individual flavor brings to a mix is useful. By testing each alone to find how strong you like it, when you use it in a mix, you can get an idea if it needs a bit more of this or a bit less of that. I play around with combining single flavor juices in a clearo and seeing how different proportions work, but getting the right % for each flavor in a mix, is a complex process, as Hoosier implied. That's why keeping notes for each experiment is useful. Another possibly helpful method is to read several recipes for mixes that use a given juice, and see what others use for a starting point, but again, you will want to make adjustments for your taste. The more original a recipe is, the more hunting you will need to do.

So once I get a good handle on each flavor's ideal standalone percent do you usually drop the percentage down a little when beginning to make a combined flavor? Thinking that would give you room to adjust upwards if the flavor gets kinda hidden by the other flavors.

 

[Boletus]

So once I get a good handle on each flavor's ideal standalone percent do you usually drop the percentage down a little when beginning to make a combined flavor? Thinking that would give you room to adjust upwards if the flavor gets kinda hidden by the other flavors.

Yes. It's pretty easy to add a bit more of something compared to reducing its effect. But combining already mixed juices is kind of the opposite, for the reason Hoosier described above. Funny, I was just looking at my quote of the day web-thing, and today's quote seems pretty relevant to this discussion:

To know a truth well, one must have fought it out.
- Novalis

 

[sketchness]

One of the things I stole from I think TFA website is tasting some of these flavors in whipped cream. It certainly doesn't translate to vaping in linear terms. But it gives you an idea of what somethings tastes like and how strong a flavor concentrate it is. Tobacco's don't do well in this process LOL. Not everything that tastes good vapes well and vice versa. But it definitely helps determine how strong something is

 

[FreeTimeNow]

Yes. It's pretty easy to add a bit more of something compared to reducing its effect. But combining already mixed juices is kind of the opposite, for the reason Hoosier described above. Funny, I was just looking at my quote of the day web-thing, and today's quote seems pretty relevant to this discussion:

To know a truth well, one must have fought it out.
- Novalis

I am now going to dial in my flavors but wondering what I do with the flavor "additives" like EM or Bavarian Cream? Do you treat them like a primary flavor and try to figure out the standalone percentage or do you add them to a primary flavor (like blueberry) and try to figure the optimum percentage to use with other flavors?

 

[beerbq]

Probably not, but it might be.

That may seem like an inane response, but combining flavoring can do some odd things.

Then keep in mind what is actually happening...IF I had a single flavoring mix at 10% and another at 20% and I mixed those together 50\50, I would have a final mix of 15% total flavoring. Think about that for a second, not 30%,..but 15%...so if I were under the mistaken impression that my flavoring that works at 20% in a single mix had to stay at 20% for a combination mix, I'd be making plenty of crappy juice before I ever figured it out.

I am trying to fully grasp this as I will be attempting to diy myself soon. So say my sweet spot for coconut is 10% and french vanilla is 20% would this recipe seem out of whack?

Ingredient ml Drops Percent
(36mg) Nicotine E-Liquid 0.8333 ml 16.67 drops 8.33 %
PG/VG 6.1667 ml 123.33 drops 61.67 %
cocount 1 ml 20 drops 10 %
french vanilla 2 ml 40 drops 20 %
Totals 10 ml 200 drops 100 %
3 mg Nicotine per ml

 

[CampbellMC]

I am getting ready to try DIY also, bought the VG and PG already, need to order my flavors after the holiday season.

From what I understand reading here and many other posts on the forums is that you basically want to break your flavorings into 2 groups to start out.
Primary Flavors - These are your base flavors, so the flavors that you want to be "strong" in your mix, so in your case both (Coconut + FV) I believe.
Secondary Flavors - These are your enhancer flavors, creams, sweeteners, or accent flavors.

So in this case if you liked FV at 20%, and Coconut at 10% in standalone mixtures, then in a combined mixture you would cut them in half. However then you will want to find which ratio they work together best at, and keep that ratio as you move your total primary flavor percentages up or down depending on tastes.

If you mixed up that recipe I am guessing the flavor would be way too bold, and you would spend a lot of time notching it back before you hit 50% of original.

If you want to have a rough idea of what they will taste like at the reduced flavors, mix a small batch of your two standalones together in equal parts and let it sit for a bit to mix together. That would effectively give you a liquid with 5% coconut and 10% FV.

Hope I could help, I am still new to this as well, but trying to do lots of research before I get started.

 

[Hoosier]

I am trying to fully grasp this as I will be attempting to diy myself soon. So say my sweet spot for coconut is 10% and french vanilla is 20% would this recipe seem out of whack?

Ingredient ml Drops Percent
(36mg) Nicotine E-Liquid 0.8333 ml 16.67 drops 8.33 %
PG/VG 6.1667 ml 123.33 drops 61.67 %
cocount 1 ml 20 drops 10 %
french vanilla 2 ml 40 drops 20 %
Totals 10 ml 200 drops 100 %
3 mg Nicotine per ml

Try it and tell me. Nothing seems unusual about it.

(Trying stuff is the best part of mixing.)

 

[beerbq]

Thank you for the replies. I am reading everything I can. So what is the point of finding your sweet spot if you are just going to cut them in half or maybe more? From what i've read i know that would be too strong of flavoring, just trying to understand this and make as few mistakes as possible. Thanks again everyone for all the info here.

 

[Hoosier]

Because you get a great idea of the notes, the mouth feel, and the relative strength of each flavoring compared to each other. Without that knowledge, you're mixing blind.