Diacetyl Free - Does it Matter?

[Zach M]

So I've been on a recent binge, so to say, on finding diacetyl free juice companies...However, in looking I realized that some of the "bigger" juice companies I realize that the juices aren't diacetyl free. This makes me wounder - does it really matter? If so, why aren't we (as a community) not pushing manufactures to be diacetyl free?

Example/see: Bread Vape Co., Kilo, Cuttwood (some juice is diacetyle free and some are not), One Hit Wounder (some flavors contain diacetyle), Space Jam (some flavors are diacetyle free and some are not)

 

[empteeteacup]

 

[Zach M]

this made me lol - girlfriend just started looking at me like "DAFUQ"

 

[crxess]

Sorry, I'm on the bench on this one. As far as I have seen, DA/AP are associated but not linked to any specific condition - as in solely responsible for. Also the extreme loe percentage of effected persons, under 1%, were due to Excessive Exposure(industrial) or excessive indulgence(Multipule Bags of MICROWAVE Popcorn Daily for years)

If/when the data actually points to and confirms specific levels, I will expect labs to follow such guidelines.

 

[herb]

I don't know why a bigger juice company is any different than a smaller one but the fact is the overwhelming majority of ALL juice companies (over 70%) use whatever ingredient's are required to make their juice taste good .

They are not required (by law) at this time to reveal whats really in their juice so of course they like to avoid that topic or use deception when someone ask's .

Until laws are passed that require they reveal whats really in their juice and or people start making noise it's business as usual .

It's up to the customer to know what they should avoid and not avoid unfortunately.

 

[Racehorse]

does it really matter? If so, why aren't we (as a community) not pushing manufactures to be diacetyl free?

It matters to some of us, to others not so much.

I don't eat junk food or fast food, either, so....

... yet I don't want to outlaw junk food. Let people eat that um....food....if they want.

If so, why aren't we (as a community) not pushing manufactures to be diacetyl free?

Plenty of vapers are pushing......with their pocketbooks. We make lists in threads like this (running for 11 months now)
Diketones-free vendors

and this:
The Diketone free tested vendors list

People can spend their money how they want.....they earned it.

BTW, For some reason, that phrase "why don't WE as a community do something" has worrisome overtones. Reminds me of gated communities and HOA's n' stuff....places where people like to pass rules for other people.

I guess that is why I live on 10 acres in the woods.

 

[herb]

Hi Racehorse , i think you quoted the wrong person , i didn't say any of those things , the OP did.

 

[AzPlumber]

I don't know why a bigger juice company is any different than a smaller one but the fact is the overwhelming majority of ALL juice companies (over 70%) use whatever ingredient's are required to make their juice taste good .

They are not required (by law) at this time to reveal whats really in their juice so of course they like to avoid that topic or use deception when someone ask's .

Until laws are passed that require they reveal whats really in their juice and or people start making noise it's business as usual .

It's up to the customer to know what they should avoid and not avoid unfortunately.

Careful what you wish for!

 

[Racehorse]

Hi Racehorse , i think you quoted the wrong person , i didn't say any of those things , the OP did.

Hi Herb ! I am so sorry. I just hit reply and quote like I always do......some kinda glitch. It's fixed now. Thanks for letting me know

 

[Racehorse]

Sorry, I'm on the bench on this one. As far as I have seen, DA/AP are associated but not linked to any specific condition - as in solely responsible for. Also the extreme loe percentage of effected persons, under 1%, were due to Excessive Exposure(industrial) or excessive indulgence(Multipule Bags of MICROWAVE Popcorn Daily for years)

If/when the data actually points to and confirms specific levels, I will expect labs to follow such guidelines.

As you know or don't know, cryxess, I have been somewhat passionately involved in the DAP topics, mostly BECAUSE as a consumer, I simply wanted to know what I was vaping.

Never have wanted to stop anybody from vaping it etc.

There were QUITE a number of years i would ask questions, before slapping down my money (and going over my CC bills I can tell you I spent quite a bit on eliquid at one time) and the questions would be answered but not correctly. As I've always said, if somebody didn't know, then "I don't know" is a perfectly good answer. Then I can decide what to do.

Instead, before a lot were testing (which is most of my life so far as a vaper ) I was told my ejuice didn't have diacetyl, or didn't have Acetyl Proprianol......and then it turns out it did. So as a consumer, I just wanted to know what I was buying.

Things are getting better now, I can pull up tests from quite a lot of vendors.

So this kinda makes whether that stuff is okay or not a moot point for me.

I think consumers do have a right to know what they are injesting......if it is known. Most food related stuff is now. I suspect eliquid will be that way.

 

[The Eciginator]

I DIY my juices these days, and if there's a DX version of a flavor I need I'll get it, but I'm not going to be hysterical about it! I like creamy flavs!

 

[crxess]

I think consumers do have a right to know what they are injesting......if it is known. Most food related stuff is now. I suspect eliquid will be that way.

This I do agree with.
Choice rather than Control. Tell us and let us decide.

I actually fully DIY now and many of my known questionable flavors have been replaced as I can afford when reordering.

My concern is more to the technical(scientific) end than the retail end at this time.
I just do not trust Politically driven sciences.(Freon R-12 being my wind mill)

Did you know Humans can produce Diacetyl in our sweat?

 

[bussdriver]

Browsing a flavor web site it seems that many of the flavorings contain at least one or more of these suspect ingredients. I've replaced a few, but most of the flavors I enjoy contain a small amount of at least one. Bummer.

Now I read that it's in my coffee! I buy green coffee beans, and roast and grind them at home. Now they are finding out that roasting and grinding releases high levels of diacetyl! What'a person to do?

I reduce my flavoring percentages and roast my coffee outside.

 

[DoubleEwe]

The whole DA/AP thing annoys me, it has become a bit of a witch hunt.
I agree that it is good to know what is in the juice, letting consumers decide and all that, but it is not really the full story.
What are the effects of inhaling the replacements for DA/AP? Are they just as bad, or potentially worse?

Also what if a juice appears to be low in terms of DA/AP (not zero), but it has BA in too, I have heard that the two together is worse than each individually, DR F. I think mentioned it in one of this reports (no link from me). So, it may appear to be relatively safe, but is actually worse than liquids with high DA/AP.
I don't know, it is all a lot of 'it could be this, it could be that', but I would like some firm facts.

Have they not done any lab tests on exposure to the inhalation risks of the flavourings?

I mean with mice (sorry animal rights), for example, having basically a 'smoke machine' set up that continuously pumps vapour (including flavouring - high % custard or similar) into the mouse's tank.
The mouse/mice then passively inhales flavouring laden vapour for the duration of their lives. The duration being compared to the control mice. The lung tissue of the mice examined postmortem for signs of scarring/damage etc.
A similar experiment performed for high BA juices/flavourings too.

The experiment would show what happens with doses higher than we generally achieve through normal usage, so would potentially show a 'worst case scenario'.

 

[DeAnna2112]

It does matter as vapers have the right to know whats in their liquid, but for me however, i have ditched the whole smoke and mirror games played by many untrustworthy sellers and now DIY. I even take it a step further...i don't even trust flavoring that is sold for DIYers that are claimed to be free of diketones...i now only make unflavored liquid to vape.

I see troubled waters ahead for the vaping industry when it comes to vaping flavors...and that expense is not going to come at the cost of my own health because the industry has a issue with honesty over the almighty dollar. I have chosen to remove all flavoring...problem solved for me....the industry has simply lost my trust...testing or no testing.

Their main goal is to make it taste good so it sells..so their test show diketone free..but is that what i am really getting?..the tested diketone free version? especially when there are no measures in place holding them accountable..yeh i have lost all trust at this point given the industry's behavior up to this point.

Just my two cents and personal priorities when it comes to my health. Yeh, i am bitter with the industry on this front.

 

[Just Me]

It does matter as vapers have the right to know whats in their liquid, but for me however, i have ditched the whole smoke and mirror games played by many untrustworthy sellers and now DIY. I even take it a step further...i don't even trust flavoring that is sold for DIYers that are claimed to be free of diketones...i now only make unflavored liquid to vape.

I see troubled waters ahead for the vaping industry when it comes to vaping flavors...and that expense is not going to come at the cost of my own health because the industry has a issue with honesty over the almighty dollar. I have chosen to remove all flavoring...problem solved for me....the industry has simply lost my trust...testing or no testing.

Their main goal is to make it taste good so it sells..so their test show diketone free..but is that what i am really getting?..the tested diketone free version? especially when there are no measures in place holding them accountable..yeh i have lost all trust at this point given the industry's behavior up to this point.

Just my two cents and personal priorities when it comes to my health. Yeh, i am bitter with the industry on this front.

Same boat for me, here. I have been DIYing unflavored for probably a year or more now. Same reasons as you mentioned, also I never made one I really liked much, and I'm also lazy, so unflavored is just pleasant and easy for me.

Actually, since last Thursday afternoon, I'm just vaping plain 50/50 with no nicotine as all. I was scheduled for a second steroid back injection in a month, and since nic constricts blood vessels and restricts blood flow, I decided I might like to give this second cortisone shot a better chance to work. Got the injection yesterday, absolute pain relief in back and legs (at least right now), and I'm still managing to vape no nic for 5 days now. I'm very surprised I could go from 15mg to 0 just like that. Too early to say I might stop vaping entirely one of these days, but I guess I could manage to do that if I really wanted to.

 

[Butch]

To me it is a case of if I don't have something to worry about,I'll worry about worrying.......

 

[sparkky1]

So I've been on a recent binge, so to say, on finding diacetyl free juice companies...However, in looking I realized that some of the "bigger" juice companies I realize that the juices aren't diacetyl free. This makes me wounder - does it really matter? If so, why aren't we (as a community) not pushing manufactures to be diacetyl free?

Example/see: Bread Vape Co., Kilo, Cuttwood (some juice is diacetyle free and some are not), One Hit Wounder (some flavors contain diacetyle), Space Jam (some flavors are diacetyle free and some are not)

Your choices may be diminished by next year but you can check out some new awesome ones, are they diacetyl free ? surely they are ......
A Perfect Puff. First Time. Every Time. | VUSE | Digital Vapor Cigarettes

 

[Gauntlgrym]

here is the way i look at it......

1. it is very POSSIBLE that D/AP are bad, right? nobody is denying that it's a real possibility. just hasn't been 100% proven yet.
2. we know that GREAT tasting eliquids can also be D/AP free, right? so D/AP doesn't NEED to be in the liquid.

conclusion:
vendors that choose to put something in the eliquid they make, that could pontentially cause severe harm later down the road, and doesn't NEED to be in the eliquid.......
well, they either don't care about you, or are too lazy to develope tasty flavors without D/AP, or not smart enough to do so, or to cheap to do testing and trails.

 

[nyiddle]

Jeez there are too many threads on this right now.

I'll say the same thing I said there though. I recommend switching to unflavored, or nic/VG/PG + a little bit of flavoring from manufacturers who publish their lab tests. The truth is, that "certified diacetyl-free" juice may not be diacetyl free. Vendors really don't have any pressure to be truthful about it, and even the companies that have been proven to be lying about their diketone levels are still in business. In my opinion, and I realize people downright hate me for this opinion, it is imperative that we remove any suspicious chemicals from e-liquid. This includes diketones and food colorings.

Realistically, the one thing that'd really spur/guarantee government regulation, is someone directly linking some flavoring to some lung disease. As it is, diacetyl/AP is already recognized as toxic. Why are we messing around with, "Well you might need to consume a lot for it to actually affect you!" Let's just cut it out entirely and maybe re-introduce it if/when we have scientific answers? Seems a lot safer/more responsible than just banking on the speculation that diketones won't cause any serious issues down the line.