Diacetyl in all custard flavors?

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I do like their Lynchburg Sour. Can't stand their Blueberry Cobbler, Strawberry Brûlée, or (the worst I believe) Vanilla Dream. Sweet Vapes should not taste medicinal, but they do to me. Are there any suggestions from MOV or another vendor for people who love sweet vapes other than what is listed above?


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Racehorse

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Maybe just my taste profile

Well there is that "distinctly" custardy taste and I do understand what you are talking about. you have the craving for the diacetyl type custardy creamy stuff, and I don't have any suggestion because people like what they like. ;) Whether that be certain movies or certain eliquids.

I guess I am lucky in the sense that I can't even open those types of flavors w/out wanting to run out of the room....I can't even stand the smell LOL

But other people might feel that way about something else, like Peppermint. :)

The Vanilla Dream was reformulated when they found that the flavorings they used were in the "risk" category. I guess this is sort of like how some people feel about certain food items like organic bread from health food store or rice cakes LOL they take the bad stuff out and people don't like it. I do like it though, I guess I have eaten healthy for so long that I've acquired a taste for things that don't have a lot of preservatives, seasonings, chemicals, etc.

......and perhaps as a result of that, I had a HECK of a time with liquids when I 1st started vaping.....I hated everything. :) spent a lot of $$ that 1st year.


Maybe you could find a couple flavorings you like and try your hand at DIY.....if only to put you in touch with some other flavor profiles you might like?????? there are quite a lot of flavors to vape I think.
 

Racehorse

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'zactly how I feel.

Per wikipedia "In a 1994 report released by five top cigarette companies, acetoin was listed as one of the 599 additives to cigarettes", so it's not like any smoker hasn't ingested this stuff before...

I guess I don't understand or relate to this cavelier attitude about one's health.....

....but i think some people do feel that way, because they are healthy NOW..........they really don't know what its like to be really ill.

I've watched it up close and personal, in my age group, and witnessing the kind of *carnage* and *suffering* that ill health bestows.....well, I just can't be cavelier about it. :(

The thing about cigarettes having had all this stuff.......well i gave up cigarettes and smoking, precisely for those reasons!
 
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nyiddle

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I'm a pretty paranoid parrot when it comes to diketones in my e-liquid, and it seems people bring up the topic everyday. There's a lot of misinformation being perpetuated, and to me it's like, "if we don't know, i don't wanna be the first to find out." Dr. F even calls it an "avoidable risk".

I try and stick to fruity juices (which supposedly may also have tiny bits of diketones in them, granted, far less than a custard butter popcorn juice) and NET's (which also may have diketones in them). I have considered going to unflavored, but really a large part of the appeal of vaping was the flavors. I fear I might go back to cigarettes if I don't have that nice fruity menthol taste in the morning.

Either way, I do have some juices in my roster that I enjoy, and I'm positive have some form of diketone in them. I just try and limit the amount that I actually vape of these juices. Like, it's a once every couple of days sorta treat. Something to have with a glass of single malt (Lagavulin, preferably). One of which is Nicoticket's Cheesecake, which I bought on a whim and steeped for a good 3 weeks. It's really tasty now though, but I can definitely recognize that creamy hint that just has to be bad for you. It's almost "too good to be true"? That said, I've tried some other custard juices (in particular, Epicus Nebula's "The General") which tasted downright poisonous. There was an undeniable chemical note and I can only assume that it had to be something bad for me. I told friends not to vape it, and this was long before I knew about diketones or diacetyl or AP. It just didn't taste right. I've mentioned it, and the maker assures that "there is no diacetyl in my juice".

So like when someone hands me a bottle of juice and says, "It's a custard but it's diacetyl-free" I recognize it as a perpetuation of misinformation (nice rhyme) -- just because it doesn't have diacetyl actively used (the maker didn't put in 3 drops of diacetyl when he was making the batch) it probably still has diketones naturally occurring in it somewhere.. People tell me, "I've been vaping custard juices for a year, and I haven't noticed any negative side effects!" Yeah, well not EVERY worker in the popcorn factories got popcorn lung, and it took a substantial amount of time to manifest in that, the most EXTREME of situations. Who knows what we might found out 10, 20, 30 years down the line? What if trace amounts (PPM or even PPB) directly inhaled into the lungs can be negative over time?

Anyway, enough rambling. I dunno, it just seems like an "avoidable risk"/I didn't quit cigarettes to pick up something that's gonna make my lungs go ker-splat, y'dig?

ETA: I've spent a lot of time arguing it with people, whether it's actually a risk to be concerned about or not. The truth is, "nobody knows yet." So why take the gamble? You could go your whole life smoking cigarettes and manage to not get cancer (ever seen those perfectly-healthy 90 year old 3+ PAD smokers and wonder how they do it?) They took a gamble, and they won. You could do the same, but you switched to vaping to find something less risky. It seems self-defeating to then pick up something which may (or even may not) have some future health implications.

You know there's gotta be people who, before everyone knew cigarettes were carcinogenic, said to themselves, "This can't possibly be good for me." I'd like to think that I woulda been one of those people.

*takes a puff of cheesecake*
 
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Racehorse

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Anyway, enough rambling. I dunno, it just seems like an "avoidable risk"/I didn't quit cigarettes to pick up something that's gonna make my lungs go ker-splat, y'dig?

Well that is a decision everyone has to make individually. Because ejuice vendors are perfectly willing to Sell you liquids with diketones.

There are a few who provide testing on all their juices, but only a handful.

and by the way, I'm not "impressed" with the ones who post warnings on their juices that contain bad stuff.....if you know anything about lawyering, that is just so that if anything happens they can say they warned you.

The only eliquid vendors who are putting pedal to the metal are the ones who will provide a test.....that is the ultimate transparency, AND they actually spent some of the money they make off vapers to pay for those tests.

It's no skin off their back to post some kind of warning that their lawyer told them to write. LOL
 
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AquaLung22

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Im another guy who only prefers creamy, custard/vanilla-type vapes. First few times i tried an ecig, thought it was not bad, but couldn"t see myself vaping those fruit or fake-tobacco flavors all day, instead of cigs. Fast forward awhile, to about 2 yrs ago - I tried a relatives' "Toasted Marshmallow Milkshake" juice out of her Kanger T2 tank and was instantly hooked.

I didn't plan on quitting smoking, but I grabbed a bottle (as well as a couple fruity flavors and a tobacco) and a basic ego setup. Loved the flavor and vaping so much that after about a month I weened down and stopped buying cigs. After smoking about a pack a day for years, I quit with that local marshmallow flavor (AEMSA approved).

2 years later and I still have those first bottles of a tobacco and fruit flavor I ever bought lol.. That Toasted Marshmallow Milkshake (nixteria.com) became my all-day-vape, all time favorite flavor for over 1.5yrs! Even after trying hundreds of others. That was until I started dripping and found Suicide Bunny a few months back. I got a lot of the most popular, "gourmet" flavors after that, and now have lots of faves hah.


This whole diketones thing really upset me though, especially the way SB and some brands handled it. It figures that it's CUSTARD vapes! Once I found the O.B. by Suicide Bunny, I thought my search was over. But now I'm searching for other, AP/diacetyl free creamy-custardy juices.. [Hency my Big Willies Custard question?]
:ohmy:
This issue, in general, needs to keep being talked about. Not swept under the rug, as it seems to have been!!
 
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AquaLung22

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I'll go out on a limb and guess that Big Willy's does have some AP in it though, it's too good not too (advertised diacetyl-free) lol. And I wasn't surprised to find Suicide Bunny had diketones in it too; but it was like a punch in the throat cuz those are the Best flavors I've found.. angry how that was handled. Wondering if Divinius Custard has diketones because that's one I surprisingly did.not like, I taste the custard but it's a weird perfumes taste & feel IMO.

My search continues.. still vaping diketones daily until than. And yes, we won't know until long-term studies are done.
 

Zelphie

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Well there is that "distinctly" custardy taste and I do understand what you are talking about. you have the craving for the diacetyl type custardy creamy stuff, and I don't have any suggestion because people like what they like. ;) Whether that be certain movies or certain eliquids.

I guess I am lucky in the sense that I can't even open those types of flavors w/out wanting to run out of the room....I can't even stand the smell LOL

But other people might feel that way about something else, like Peppermint. :)

The Vanilla Dream was reformulated when they found that the flavorings they used were in the "risk" category. I guess this is sort of like how some people feel about certain food items like organic bread from health food store or rice cakes LOL they take the bad stuff out and people don't like it. I do like it though, I guess I have eaten healthy for so long that I've acquired a taste for things that don't have a lot of preservatives, seasonings, chemicals, etc.

......and perhaps as a result of that, I had a HECK of a time with liquids when I 1st started vaping.....I hated everything. :) spent a lot of $$ that 1st year.


Maybe you could find a couple flavorings you like and try your hand at DIY.....if only to put you in touch with some other flavor profiles you might like?????? there are quite a lot of flavors to vape I think.

I thought I was the only one who doesn't like the taste/smell of custardy vapes. I don't eat or drink most dairy products for the same reason. Im just so picky overall. I refused milk among other things as a baby, ....... it was hard to feed me :laugh:
 

Zelphie

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Im another guy who only prefers creamy, custard/vanilla-type vapes. First few times i tried an ecig, thought it was not bad, but couldn"t see myself vaping those fruit or fake-tobacco flavors all day, instead of cigs. Fast forward awhile, to about 2 yrs ago - I tried a relatives' "Toasted Marshmallow Milkshake" juice out of her Kanger T2 tank and was instantly hooked.

I didn't plan on quitting smoking, but I grabbed a bottle (as well as a couple fruity flavors and a tobacco) and a basic ego setup. Loved the flavor and vaping so much that after about a month I weened down and stopped buying cigs. After smoking about a pack a day for years, I quit with that local marshmallow flavor (AEMSA approved).

2 years later and I still have those first bottles of a tobacco and fruit flavor I ever bought lol.. That Toasted Marshmallow Milkshake (nixteria.com) became my all-day-vape, all time favorite flavor for over 1.5yrs! Even after trying hundreds of others. That was until I started dripping and found Suicide Bunny a few months back. I got a lot of the most popular, "gourmet" flavors after that, and now have lots of faves hah.


This whole diketones thing really upset me though, especially the way SB and some brands handled it. It figures that it's CUSTARD vapes! Once I found the O.B. by Suicide Bunny, I thought my search was over. But now I'm searching for other, AP/diacetyl free creamy-custardy juices.. [Hency my Big Willies Custard question?]
:ohmy:
This issue, in general, needs to keep being talked about. Not swept under the rug, as it seems to have been!!

The issue is alive and well, just not mainstream.
 

Stosh

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Many coffee and fruit flavors will contain naturally occurring diacetyl, so simply changing flavors is not a complete solution.

Diacetyl - Toxipedia

In 2003, the EPA reported that it would complete a project on evaluating the compounds emitted through popping microwave popcorn. Ultimately, it has been shown that diacetyl is just one agent that can cause flavorings-related lung disease:

"The flavorings industry has estimated that over a thousand flavoring ingredients have the potential to be respiratory hazards due to possible volatility and irritant properties (alpha, beta-unsaturated aldehydes and ketones, aliphatic aldehydes, aliphatic carboxylic acids, aliphatic amines, and aliphatic aromatic thiols and sulfides)."
 

AndriaD

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I heard that some flavoring companies are working on new formulations to replicate the taste without the use of diacetyl or AP, so that's hopeful news.

Yep, I just got some Capella's Vanilla Custard v2, no diketones, to make "baked goods" flavors richer, and it's very good, very tasty, smells awesome. I haven't tried it by itself, but I have some "Blueberry Custard" steeping right now which is made with it, and the smell of it alone is driving me wild with anticipation for vaping it. :D Anyway, bullcityvapor.com has it.

I recently got another which is a reformulation, TFA's "French Vanilla Creme"; it's a re-do of another french vanilla of theirs. It smells very good, very authentic, but has no diketones. I mixed a bit of it into a mix I'm working on, tobacco/coffee/chocolate/vanilla, and it's a very nice taste of vanilla, but I think that mix needs more cream to be just right -- I'm looking at another Capella flavor, "sweet cream;" at bullcity, they show you clearly if a flavor contains any diketones, and this Sweet Cream is not showing any "caution" background, so I'm guessing it's safe.

Andria
 

Mazinny

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Has anyone received a report from MOV showing the test done on the flavor(s)?

The testing results for most of their finished juices is already on the product description page. As far as the 'flavors' used in these juices, they were tested in January apparently and the offending flavors replaced. I would personally like to see the results on the finished juice, because that's what i'm purchasing. The results on the flavors don't mean much to me unless i was using those flavors making my own juice. I don't know what the purpose would be for a vendor to publish the results of say the 50 different flavors they use in the product line if the consumer doesn't know what they are and how they are combined in a particular juice, as i'm sure most vendors will not divulge their recipes.
 
Never really tried creamy vapes. Cream doesn't seem to have much of a taste to me, so are the cream flavorings pretty subtle to begin with? I use the TFA Vanilla Swirl in my tobacco mixes, tastes good to me. Maybe even a little creamy I guess. BTW, I caught The DikeTones at a club last night. Good show, catchy tunes.
 

nyiddle

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BTW, I caught The DikeTones at a club last night. Good show, catchy tunes.

Yeah my favorite song by them is their smash-hit, "Short of Breath (Popcorn Lung)" and their classic hit from WAY back, "Ooh Oh Baby, You're My Custard Cream Pie"

ETA: Other popular songs include, "I Can't Aldehyde My Love".
 
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AndriaD

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Never really tried creamy vapes. Cream doesn't seem to have much of a taste to me, so are the cream flavorings pretty subtle to begin with? I use the TFA Vanilla Swirl in my tobacco mixes, tastes good to me. Maybe even a little creamy I guess. BTW, I caught The DikeTones at a club last night. Good show, catchy tunes.

Yeah my favorite song by them is their smash-hit, "Short of Breath (Popcorn Lung)" and their classic hit from WAY back, "Ooh Oh Baby, You're My Custard Cream Pie"

ETA: Other popular songs include, "I Can't Aldehyde My Love".

Heh... it sounds like a lesbian vocal group, to me. :D

Tranq... the "cream" kinda flavors are just for giving that sort of smooth "roundness" that cream gives to coffee or foods -- that one mix I'm working on, being coffee-based, really needs a bit more of it. It's not bad now, but just a little more "in your face" than I want; I think the cream will give it more subtlety, exactly as it does to coffee.

Andria
 

SthrnCelt

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Maybe I'm over-thinking it, or not thinking hard enough...I don't know. But I have a hard time wrapping my head around all the "sky is falling" dialog I hear in these discussions about diketones. I mean honestly most people I know who vape are former smokers. The list of chemicals in cigarette smoke is long and scary. So I trade 200 chemicals for 2 or 3...I can live with that. Is that cavalier? I don't feel it is. I'm a nicotine addict. And having tried and failed quitting smoking via several nicotine replacement methods, I can't get too twisted up about a couple of chemicals in the one thing that's helped me not light up which is vaping. So you say there's no reason to use those particular flavors that are being labeled harmful, do you? Well it so happens that, like many others, those are the flavors I found to be most effective in helping me abstain from cigarettes. So yeah, I'll risk it. What I do find humorous is how so many of the educated act as though their steering clear of diketone-laden liquid makes their vaping habit something nearing pure or divine. Humbug! There is not enough evidence of the long-term effects of vaping to show what the real risks are. Heck I smoked for nearly 30 years before noticing any decline in my health. And even though there are studies proving some of the chemicals in custardy flavors as being deleterious, the absence of empirical evidence for vaping even unflavored liquid should not be confused as it being even a healthier choice. The only healthy inhalable thing is air...and much of that is questionable if not downright known to be harmful.

Is Al Gore on here too? :p
 

AndriaD

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Maybe I'm over-thinking it, or not thinking hard enough...I don't know. But I have a hard time wrapping my head around all the "sky is falling" dialog I hear in these discussions about diketones. I mean honestly most people I know who vape are former smokers. The list of chemicals in cigarette smoke is long and scary. So I trade 200 chemicals for 2 or 3...I can live with that. Is that cavalier? I don't feel it is. I'm a nicotine addict. And having tried and failed quitting smoking via several nicotine replacement methods, I can't get too twisted up about a couple of chemicals in the one thing that's helped me not light up which is vaping. So you say there's no reason to use those particular flavors that are being labeled harmful, do you? Well it so happens that, like many others, those are the flavors I found to be most effective in helping me abstain from cigarettes. So yeah, I'll risk it. What I do find humorous is how so many of the educated act as though their steering clear of diketone-laden liquid makes their vaping habit something nearing pure or divine. Humbug! There is not enough evidence of the long-term effects of vaping to show what the real risks are. Heck I smoked for nearly 30 years before noticing any decline in my health. And even though there are studies proving some of the chemicals in custardy flavors as being deleterious, the absence of empirical evidence for vaping even unflavored liquid should not be confused as it being even a healthier choice. The only healthy inhalable thing is air...and much of that is questionable if not downright known to be harmful.

Is Al Gore on here too? :p


What *IS* known is the link between diketones and bronchiolitis obliterans, which is not merely irritation of the lungs, but destruction of the lungs. I have asthma, so I know exactly what "short of breath" feels like, and it's horrible. So if staying away from diketones lessens my chances of suffering bronchiolitis obliterans, then that's exactly what I'll do. You may certainly do as you please, but also kindly refrain from throwing rocks at those who would like to avoid a certain danger. Alternatives to diketone-laden flavors are available, for those who care to look for them.

Andria
 

SthrnCelt

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What *IS* known is the link between diketones and bronchiolitis obliterans, which is not merely irritation of the lungs, but destruction of the lungs. I have asthma, so I know exactly what "short of breath" feels like, and it's horrible. So if staying away from diketones lessens my chances of suffering bronchiolitis obliterans, then that's exactly what I'll do. You may certainly do as you please, but also kindly refrain from throwing rocks at those who would like to avoid a certain danger. Alternatives to diketone-laden flavors are available, for those who care to look for them.

Andria

Andria I don't mean to throw rocks dear. I simply have a tough time with certain things which make no sense. Of course when there is a known risk a person who wants to avoid those risks should be able to do so unhindered. I just have issues with the whole thing and have read tons of comments (many derogatory) about folks' decision to vape the "bad" stuff all the while chucking huge volumes of yet-to-be-determined-safe stuff into their lungs with a 50w mod professing it to be a better choice. There's no evidence that's true over the long term...all I'm saying. But then again I'm up waaaaay past my bedtime so I may not realize how my crankiness may be coming across. Let me grab my blanket and pillow and try again tomorrow. :)
 
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