Diethylene Glycol, what's the deal?

[GuyInAZ]

Got an email at work yesterday, it stated that "ecigarettes" would not be allowed "because they contain a chemical that may set off the smoke alarms".
I replied inquiring as to what that chemical was and the reply was "diethylene glycol".

I Googled it with the key words 'smoke detector', could not find anything stating that it could set off a smoke detector.
As a matter of fact, what I found was that it cannot set off a smoke detector. I came home and blew vape into my smoke detector and, it went off.
There seems to be a contradiction here between what the ecigarette vendors say and reality.

But above and beyond that ( And I searched the forum for diethylene glycol before posting this ) what is the real deal when it comes to vaping and diethylene glycol?
Is it in the juice? The cartomizers? Does it even exist in ecigs at all? Any replies with links to information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bassworm]

The powers that be at work appear to be GROSSLY misinformed on what is in the joos..

Diethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no vaper in their right mind would willingly vape that.

Plus from the toxicology findings on the link above, it appears that if it were in anything we vape we would be experiencing some serious side effects by now.

 

[GuyInAZ]

The powers that be at work appear to be GROSSLY misinformed on what is in the joos..

Diethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no vaper in their right mind would willingly vape that.

Which is why I want to know if it is true or not

 

[Eddie.Willers]

To explain their confusion...

"Diethylene Glycol is a poisonous substance commonly used in vehicle anti-freeze. In 2009, a very limited study of a very small number of pre-filled cartridges was undertaken by the FDA and trace amounts were found in one or two - by trace, I mean 'such a small amount as to be virtually undetectable and probably not dangerous'. It is believed that this was a one-off incident of contamination.

The common components of e-liquid are Propylene Glycol (PG) and Vegetable Glycerin (VG) - neither of which are poisonous and, furthermore, are listed as GRAS by the FDA.

However, thick vapor from VG can trigger certain kinds of smoke detector - but, IMHO, you would have to be exhaling the vapor straight into the detector, as it disperses quite quickly.

Sounds to me like your employer doesn't want you vaping for fear of either a negative reaction from non-smokers or demands from tobacco smokers to be allowed to smoke.

 

[bassworm]

see edited post. Us PV users as a collective are very very particular about what is or isn't in the stuff we ingest when it comes to components of a PV/e cig , all the proof you need is in the Box Elder post where members of this place found the nic contents to be extremely higher than listed BEFORE anyone suffered damage ( that is known so far ) and before it was any kind of large regulation / media issue.

 

[Mr. P]

There are three types of smoke detectors and yes vaping directly into an optical detector will set it off. Optical detectors use a light beam which if disrupted will set it off and blowing a thick vape into a detector will set it off. Most residential detectors are the optical type and general vaping will not set them off. The other two sample the air trying to detect certain ions which vaping does not produce.

 

[tj99959]

Huge difference between PG (used in e-liquids) and DEG (a common solvent).
You will even find PG used in the ventilation systems of hospitals (to reduce airborne bacteria)

 

[bassworm]

My guess is the theory in the workplace is smoke is seen before smelled and/or its tied into the motion sensors of the alarm system. So at least the reasoning is more sound than just that its considered "the same thing as smoking / tobacco"

 

[dimo]

While Diethylene Glycol is used in many ways, the only one that is of particular interest to us, is that it can be used during the manufacturing of plastics. In our world, that would mean plastic cartridges, packaging, cartomizers, etc.

I believe the only reason that this chemical is even brought up is because the FDA found traces of it in an e-cigarette study they were conducting a while back. I think it was only found in 1 ecig from that batch there were testing and it was determined that the cause was because of a manufacturing defect, not intentional. It was nowhere near an amount that would cause harm who would happen to be vaping an ecig that has been compromised.

EDIT: I type to slow and others beat me to the punch, lol.

 

[GuyInAZ]

Misconceptions About the Use of Electric Cigarettes | Causes of prostatitis and its treatment

3: Electric cigarettes produce smoke. Not true at all. The electric cigarette, as noted above, produces a vapour made of glycol, nicotine and some 40 other nontoxic inhalants. Because the cigarette doesn’t produce smoke, then, it doesn’t set off smoke alarms – and is perfectly legal to smoke anywhere that the regular smoking ban applies. Indeed, if one is being perfectly accurate then describing the use of electronic cigarettes as “smoking” is a total misnomer. There’s actually a product specific term coming into use, “vaping”, which refers to the fact that the electric cigarette is dispensing vapour rather than smoke.

Wrong... I set mine off blowing vape into it. And if it's water vapor and doesn't contain diethylene glycol, what set off my smoke alarm?

 

[Mr. P]

You set it off because it was an optical type detector and you blew a thick vape directly into it. Step back three feet and do it and it won't go off. As long as the light beam isn't interupted the alarm will not go off.
The other types of detectors take air samples and check for certain ions in the air, these detectors go off when they sense them. These type are more expensive and usually not found in residential areas due to cost.

 

[StotheK]

As someone mentioned, it depends on the particular type of detector. Optical detectors go off easily. Plus if you blow vape directly into it, it may condensate back into larger droplets causing the detector to go off.

As far as the diethyline glycol thing, that comes from the 2009 FDA health advisory where they basically claimed e-cigarettes contained antifreeze (actually propylene glycol) carcinogens and diethyline glycol (also in antifreeze). Of course PG is in everything, the actual study revealed the carconigen levels at trace amounts and in-line with nicotine gum and the patch. The diethelyine glycol was found in a very small concentration in only one of the cartridges they tested, which indicates a tainted single item as opposed to a normal ingredient.

 

[cubist]

Being that I design commercial fire alarm/ evacuation systems for hospitals and high-rise buildings for a living, I thought I'd chime in here. Almost all commercial smoke detectors that tie into a building's fire alarm system work by blocking light. They have a sensor that samples the ambient air and checks for a percentage of light obscuration. If you blow vape directly into the sampling chamber it will block the light and set the detector off. It is not a certain chemical that will cause it. If you stir up a lot of dust directly under a detector it will also set it off. Assuming the detectors are ceiling mounted, normal vaping will not affect the detectors at all. Most larger systems also have an individual sensitivity adjustment through the head end if it was a real concern.

 

[GuyInAZ]

Being that I design commercial fire alarm/ evacuation systems for hospitals and high-rise buildings for a living, I thought I'd chime in here. Almost all commercial smoke detectors that tie into a building's fire alarm system work by blocking light. They have a sensor that samples the ambient air and checks for a percentage of light obscuration. If you blow vape directly into the sampling chamber it will block the light and set the detector off. It is not a certain chemical that will cause it. If you stir up a lot of dust directly under a detector it will also set it off. Assuming the detectors are ceiling mounted, normal vaping will not affect the detectors at all. Most larger systems also have an individual sensitivity adjustment through the head end if it was a real concern.

Bingo, hence being banned from from the workplace. Thanks Cubist.

 

[GuyInAZ]

Thanks everyone. Vape on.

 

[tj99959]

Wrong... I set mine off blowing vape into it. And if it's water vapor and doesn't contain diethylene glycol, what set off my smoke alarm?

Guess the spiders that try to build a nest in my smoke alarms must contain diethylene glycol.

As far as e-cigs being banned from the work place, an employer has every right to do that for no other reason than they want to.
I banned booze from my work place too. (being the ole meanie that I am)

 

[DC2]

There is no chemical in the vapor that has anything to do with whether or not a smoke alarm will go off. So basically, the email you received was incorrect. It was either a bunch of BS intended to shut people up, or the person that wrote it didn't know what they were talking about and didn't really care.

I don't think you can find any information anywhere that would say what that email said, so the person who wrote it can not even claim they read it somewhere. In other words, it appears to be made up, which indicates it was probably just BS to shut people up.

 

[carpedebass]

I banned booze from my work place too.

What a jerk! No way would I ever work for you!!