Difference between watts and joules?

[VNeil]

Am I the only one that is very disturbed by the idea that this mod has two user controlled settings (Joules and Temp), and one of them is so poorly documented that long threads run on speculating endlessly on what that setting does? Would you pay a premium price for a smart phone that came with undocumented buttons? Can you imagine a phone that generates endless internet threads speculating on what "that button really does"????????

And people pay 4x what the mod can be bought for elsewhere for the privilege?

I actually wanted to buy a Mini J, I really did, but I could not get past this. And a few other issues related to lack of disclosure (like what the warranty on this $200 premo box really is). No offence to anyone that owns one, I'm sure it's a great mod, this is just my own hangup. I need to know WHY I'm buying something.

 

[Opinionated]

[

Most regulated mods have a timed safety shutoff. So it doesn't melt down while autofiring in your pocket. Or the firing switch fails closed. But you are arguing that *maybe* Yihi added a user adjustable shutoff value, that is not time dependent but total power dependent. And failed to document that in any way.

This is simple to test... set the device to 10J and see how long it takes to time out. then set it to max J's and see how long it takes to time out. I'll bet the time out is the same.

Simply because the J setting does the same thing every other TC mod does with a W setting. Which has nothing to do with a safety cutoff.

You guys would make a great R&D people, because it IS a great idea..

too bad the company didn't think about it.. lol

ETA. I was not arguing that it was possible, I was saying that if the company did that they would be screaming it loudly.. advertising the heck out of that feature etc. making it an illogical assumption that they actually did this..

my suggestion was to write the company to make certain, however.. if this is what they are trying to imply and it is not true, then it can be considered false advertising to use the word 'joules' rather than watts, and as such, can actually be sued since certainly that is the implication.

 

[Boden]

 

[VNeil]

[



You guys would make a great R&D people, because it IS a great idea..

too bad the company didn't think about it.. lol

ETA. I was not arguing that it was possible, I was saying that if the company did that they would be screaming it loudly.. advertising the heck out of that feature etc. making it an illogical assumption that they actually did this..

my suggestion was to write the company to make certain, however.. if this is what they are trying to imply and it is not true, then it can be considered false advertising to use the word 'joules' rather than watts, and as such, can actually be sued since certainly that is the implication.

I know I was mostly preaching to the choir. Personally I *do* consider the Joules thing false advertising. Not in a legal sense (I'm just not going there). But in an ethical sense, giving them all the rope I could, marketing being what it is. But this is simply deceptive, and these threads are proof of that.

If you do write them, looking for an answer, I can tell you up front what you will get: a totally nonsensical answer framed in Chinglish. They like to hide behind this second language thing. Even though the rest of China hired their English translators decades ago.

It is entertaining to watch people tap dancing around the 30 ton Joules Elephant in the room, though.

 

[Opinionated]

If you do write them, looking for an answer, I can tell you up front what you will get: a totally nonsensical answer framed in Chinglish. They like to hide behind this second language thing. Even though the rest of China hired their English translators decades ago.

.

You mean like this?

"if the item not arrived you in these normal time ,or you get item not satisfied ,please kindly email me
i will give you best solution ,your satisfactory is my working goal"

hahahahaha

 

[VNeil]

You mean like this?

"if the item not arrived you in these normal time ,or you get item not satisfied ,please kindly email me
i will give you best solution ,your satisfactory is my working goal"

hahahahaha

Actually this makes sense. I'm not concerned with a little bad grammar. But in the big SX Mini J thread, someone posted an email they got back from tech support asking some very specific question, and got back absolute "nonsense".

 

[Stosh]

As far as vaping is concerned the units of measurement is unnecessary. If one company wanted to advertise a mod that goes from 10 to 100 "Clouds" in 5 cloud increments, while another company went with 1-20 "Tootles", you could still find your sweet spot for your particular topper and juice. But, but, you couldn't compare the two...considering the number of threads of "My XYZ mod "hits" harder than my Acme mod"....wouldn't change anything...

If you consider that only ECF members who didn't sleep through Physics class understand the current terminology, the labels become silly.

 

[edyle]

[



You guys would make a great R&D people, because it IS a great idea..

too bad the company didn't think about it.. lol

ETA. I was not arguing that it was possible, I was saying that if the company did that they would be screaming it loudly.. advertising the heck out of that feature etc. making it an illogical assumption that they actually did this..

my suggestion was to write the company to make certain, however.. if this is what they are trying to imply and it is not true, then it can be considered false advertising to use the word 'joules' rather than watts, and as such, can actually be sued since certainly that is the implication.

A company is not a person, it cannot think.
But maybe the intent (by an engineer or technician) of the 'joule' thing was originally what has been discussed here, a burst of energy, then cutoff; but then the implementation didn't follow through; maybe the guy moved on to another company or got sick or something.
Won't be the first time one sees signs of something new in one product which didn't get implemented properly the first time.


We've seen before with vv and vw mods where the information reported by the mod for voltage or wattage was wrong because whoever wrote the software/firmware used 'mean' values instead of rms. A software geek could easily make that mistake but an electrical engineer wouldn't.


but in the end all that is just speculation

 

[Dampmaskin]

As far as vaping is concerned the units of measurement is unnecessary. [...] If you consider that only ECF members who didn't sleep through Physics class understand the current terminology, the labels become silly.

Watts can be compared to watts, even if you don't fully understand what a watt is. Mystery (or pseudo) joules on the other hand, cannot be meaningfully compared to anything other than itself.

 

[VNeil]

If you consider that only ECF members who didn't sleep through Physics class understand the current terminology, the labels become silly.

I disagree. Because what the Joule label did was to start a search for some secret sauce that continues to this day. People are convinced that the Yihi chips do something fundamentally different (and better) than other TC chips that are calibrated in Watts. And the fact that Yihi has never clearly stated what the Joules setting does is evidence (at least to me) that the confusion was intended.

 

[edyle]

You mean like this?

"if the item not arrived you in these normal time ,or you get item not satisfied ,please kindly email me
i will give you best solution ,your satisfactory is my working goal"

hahahahaha

Some things are best translated with a smile

 

[VNeil]

A company is not a person, it cannot think.
But maybe the intent (by an engineer or technician) of the 'joule' thing was originally what has been discussed here, a burst of energy, then cutoff; but then the implementation didn't follow through; maybe the guy moved on to another company or got sick or something.
Won't be the first time one sees signs of something new in one product which didn't get implemented properly the first time.


We've seen before with vv and vw mods where the information reported by the mod for voltage or wattage was wrong because whoever wrote the software/firmware used 'mean' values instead of rms. A software geek could easily make that mistake but an electrical engineer wouldn't.


but in the end all that is just speculation

And maybe pigs will rise up and fly, crashing numerous commercial jetliners and killing thousands. Occam's Razor suggests it was a very shrewd marketing move. Do you really believe that the one thing that appears to differentiate a Yihi chip from any other (and in particular the similarly premo priced DNAxxx) was some sort of accident?

 

[Opinionated]

Actually this makes sense. I'm not concerned with a little bad grammar. But in the big SX Mini J thread, someone posted an email they got back from tech support asking some very specific question, and got back absolute "nonsense".

I have never asked any for tech support, mainly I buy Chinese for computer parts/components so I have yet to ever have the need to ask any for tech support. I cannot stand the bad grammar myself, but I always figure it best to go to the source rather than a third person.

But I see what you are saying about their tech support in general concerning vaping equipment.

 

[Stosh]

Watts can be compared to watts, even if you don't fully understand what a watt is. Mystery (or pseudo) joules on the other hand, cannot be meaningfully compared to anything other than itself.

Absolutely, although different waveforms on different manufacturers mods seem to affect the taste for some vapers, rendering the comparisons of watts to watts moot.

Many people drive everyday without knowing the difference between horsepower and torque, but are still able to press the gas pedal just enough to go as fast as they want....

 

[Stosh]

I disagree. Because what the Joule label did was to start a search for some secret sauce that continues to this day. People are convinced that the Yihi chips do something fundamentally different (and better) than other TC chips that are calibrated in Watts. And the fact that Yihi has never clearly stated what the Joules setting does is evidence (at least to me) that the confusion was intended.

A fool and their money is soon parted....

 

[suprtrkr]

A "watt" is a specific amount of power. A "joule" is a specific amount of power applied for a specific amount of time. 1 horsepower = 745.7 Watts. 1 Joule = 1 watt/second. I have never understood why the Yihi chip is denominated in Joules, this makes no sense because pressing the fire button does not energize the circuit for a specific amount of time. The circuit stays energized for as long as you push the button.

 

[Opinionated]

A company is not a person, it cannot think.
But maybe the intent (by an engineer or technician) of the 'joule' thing was originally what has been discussed here, a burst of energy, then cutoff; but then the implementation didn't follow through; maybe the guy moved on to another company or got sick or something.
Won't be the first time one sees signs of something new in one product which didn't get implemented properly the first time.


We've seen before with vv and vw mods where the information reported by the mod for voltage or wattage was wrong because whoever wrote the software/firmware used 'mean' values instead of rms. A software geek could easily make that mistake but an electrical engineer wouldn't.


but in the end all that is just speculation

A company is comprised of individual people - and those individual people think

A company with ideas and no implementation is not a good company, as they cannot think; they cannot carefully weigh and consider all components of the idea in order to arrive at it's proper implementation.

 

[edyle]

And maybe pigs will rise up and fly, crashing numerous commercial jetliners and killing thousands. Occam's Razor suggests it was a very shrewd marketing move. Do you really believe that the one thing that appears to differentiate a Yihi chip from any other (and in particular the similarly premo priced DNAxxx) was some sort of accident?

I would speculate that maybe there's an alien base on the far side of the moon (that's why that side is always faced away from the earth {and maybe the moon is really a spaceship})....................

but that don't mean I believe it

 

[Dampmaskin]

Absolutely, although different waveforms on different manufacturers mods seem to affect the taste for some vapers, rendering the comparisons of watts to watts moot.

I disagree. Watts are not the only parameter that matters, but nobody said it was. Watt-hours is another. How many hours of use the mod can be expected to last before breaking in two is third. Weight is a fourth. And so on. All these parameters can be compared between mods. Not all of them are equally easy to compare, but it can be done.

PWM frequency can also be compared side by side most of the time, although mods with "exotic" waveforms (not flat, not square, not sine, not sawtooth) exist, and are more difficult to compare to other mods.

But if a mod has 5.6 Unicorn Awesomnesses and 9.9 Clairvoyance Angels, those parameters cannot be compared to anything, and they cannot be evaluated by themselves either. In which case the parameters make no sense, IMO.

 

[edyle]

A "watt" is a specific amount of power. A "joule" is a specific amount of power applied for a specific amount of time. 1 horsepower = 745.7 Watts. 1 Joule = 1 watt/second. I have never understood why the Yihi chip is denominated in Joules, this makes no sense because pressing the fire button does not energize the circuit for a specific amount of time. The circuit stays energized for as long as you push the button.

Which means that the 'Joule' information shown on the yihi chip is incorrect...
just as the voltage and watts information was wrong on chips like on the original istick20 and earlier vamo's that used 'mean' calculation was wrong.