Difficult Question......Thoughts.

[HyOnLyph]

....But so many christians do not focus on love, they focus on doctrine and details, when the most important thing is to Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.

Yeah... I have a theory about that... I think it is our nature to want security. However, it is our fleshly nature to seek security in the law, rules, and control. We miss it. True security is in love... love is manifest only through relationship... security in God is only through relatioship and experiencing his faithfulness in love. It's scarey... but once there, it is very secure. More secure than the law.

Even believers are seeking security but it's easier to seek security in law and rules and control than it is to work on and trust in relationship of love. When we get shakey, the tendency is to run back to the control button and that is the law. (we see this in gov't as well as religion)... the tendency is to make a law rather than trust God in the individual.

So, as believers, some focus on the rules, doctrine, and lining up all of their ducks so that they can be secure in their little religious world.
It's a tough way to live because eventually ... just like scripture says... the law brings death.

 

[LisaLisa]

Yeah... I have a theory about that... I think it is our nature to want security. However, it is our fleshly nature to seek security in the law, rules, and control. We miss it. True security is in love... love is manifest only through relationship... security in God is only through relatioship and experiencing his faithfulness in love. It's scarey... but once there, it is very secure. More secure than the law.

Even believers are seeking security but it's easier to seek security in law and rules and control than it is to work on and trust in relationship of love. When we get shakey, the tendency is to run back to the control button and that is the law. (we see this in gov't as well as religion)... the tendency is to make a law rather than trust God in the individual.

So, as believers, some focus on the rules, doctrine, and lining up all of their ducks so that they can be secure in their little religious world.
It's a tough way to live because eventually ... just like scripture says... the law brings death.

That's right! So, following Jesus is to follow Love. But, also to keep His commandments as that is how we put our love into action.

 

[LisaLisa]

But to love is not so easy! I'll give you one example. One of my favorite shows is Cops, another is Bait Car, and The Real Housewives shows, I never miss those.........the drama is soooooooo entertaining.

So, why do I watch these shows and am so entertained by watching people that are such a mess? Because I look at them, then look at myself, and it makes me feel like I"m doing better then they are! Not consciously, but subconsciously!

I'll watch Cops, and think to myself "Man, that guy is so messed up! Or, glad they caught that piece of filth.....or what a messed up person, I would never do that!" and things like that. Hey, I"m just being honest here! Do, I stop and pray for that person on Cops? NO!!! Do I grieve over his lost soul? NO! I'm entertained by it! This is sick! This is wrong, this is evil and it's the opposite of loving!

To love other people, isn't to be entertained by their sin. Would I have ever thought about this before? No! Not until I started to really think deeply about what it means to love, and what God meant when He talks about love in the Bible.

 

[Desert Rat]

regarding your comment...


I think it's important to clarify.... I guess it depends on what you mean by available... the Holy Spirit is testifying and speaking to everyone, all of the time. It is the Spirit who woos us to Christ even before we believe. The Holy Spirit is constantly speaking Truth to everyone's heart... some chose to acknowledge it... others see it in part but don't know where it comes from and mistakenly build their own religion around it... others ignore it altogether.

Based on the actual definition of agape, it is not just a God love. It is an unselfish love expecting nothing in return. God's love is a demonstration of agape but it is not exclusive to it. It is not exclusive to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit nor to the saved alone.

Hy You are right the Holly Spirit is everywhere what I speak of is the indwelling which is by invitation when you ask the Lord to come in to your heart. It is not possible for all things of God to be available to the unsaved if it were then why be saved

 

[blondeambition3]

It's 6:00 in the morning, and I'm just getting started on my coffee........so bear with me while I try to put the thoughts into words and attempt to make some sense.

Jesus said "nobody comes to the father except through me". We also know that Jesus is the judge and the mediator between people and the Father.

Now I take that verse to mean that Jesus decides who goes to heaven and who doesn't, you have to go through Him to get to the Father. He's the gatekeeper, and He decides who goes in and who doesn't. That authority has been given to Him.

Jesus also said that the most important thing to Him is to love God with your whole heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. These are His guidelines to measure who is going to make it and who isn't.

Jesus also said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"........see above. So keeping His commandments, to Him, shows that you love Him.

Now here's where it gets tricky for me. The modern day churches aren't keeping His commandments. The majority of people who call themselves christians these days, do not keep His commandments. They believe in Jesus, but they don't "follow" Him by doing what He said.

Is belief in Jesus good enough? I don't know, you tell me after reading the letters to the churches in revelation. They were believers, and it appears that Jesus gave them an F grade on their report card. Only one, the church of philadelphia got a good review. So even back then, the majority of christians were doing it wrong!

If you look at this deeper, much sin is actually showing a lack of love for yourself, God, or your neighbor. So, what does it all boil down to? LOVE! The whole message is about LOVE! Even Jesus coming here was about LOVE. Forgiveness of our sins is a result of LOVE! Why did Jesus teach against the Pharasees? Because they were full of hate, judgment, rules, pride and not love! It all boils down to love and the Bible even tells us that when it says "God is Love". If you follow God, you will practice Love........the love will be the evidence of your faith in God. The whole point of the Gospels is Love! That's what Jesus is looking for, people who follow Him the way He said that they should, by showing love to all people.

I believe this is why He said the road is narrow and few will find it because alot of christians I think don't fully think about or comprehend that Christianity is supposed to be about LOVE! Not just love between eachother, but love for the whole world, including the people who hate us. And that love has to be real, not phony.

So, God is Love. Jesus preached Love, and He also said that He would decide who gets to the father. So, if you call yourself a christian, but have no love, will you be found worthy by Jesus when He comes? God is a reader of hearts, He knows who loves Him and who doesn't, and those who love Him follow His commandments.

Well, Jesus answered that question for us, He said "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'

So it appears to me that religious labels don't matter to Jesus, it's what's inside your heart, and what you do that matters, not what you call yourself because He sees everything that you say, do and think.

So flip that around for a second........what about the jew or hindu who really does love God and lives his life by showing love to others? Isn't that person actually doing what Jesus said? How can anyone say that this person will be found unworthy when they are doing what Jesus taught?

I dont know if any of this makes sense, it's random thoughts that come into my mind, and concepts that come into my mind that I try and form into words and paragraphs, but sometimes don't come out right.

I agree 100 percent with everything you just said Lisa. The ONLY thing missing is the John 3:3 factor; Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Unless you're 'born again' you can not SEE the Kingdom of God.

Here's the 'key' to being born again;

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

You can love God with all your Heart and your love your enemies, but Christ Himself articulated we MUST be born again (He must dwell in us and we in Him) in order to even see OR get to Heaven.

 

[LisaLisa]

Yea, I read a bunch of verses last night that definitely says that Jesus is the only way. But, if you follow and believe and accept Him, you follow, believe and accept His teachings. His teachings were all about love.

I think our society and culture is so evil, that a person believes that he's a " loving person" if he doesn't go out and rape, steal and kill.

But if you compare the average american christian person's daily life with what Jesus taught, it's just not up to par. Some really do focus on loving everyone, all people of the world, but most don't.

 

[HyOnLyph]

Yea, I read a bunch of verses last night that definitely says that Jesus is the only way. But, if you follow and believe and accept Him, you follow, believe and accept His teachings. His teachings were all about love.

I think our society and culture is so evil, that a person believes that he's a " loving person" if he doesn't go out and rape, steal and kill.

But if you compare the average american christian person's daily life with what Jesus taught, it's just not up to par. Some really do focus on loving everyone, all people of the world, but most don't.

I think there is a difference between evil and fearful. I agree that there is evil out there. Lacking in conscience. I also think that the majority of society, especially where it applies to Christians, are afraid. They have been conditioned to react to circumstances rather than trust God and therefore fail to love. Remember the scripture, "Perfect love casts out all fear"? This infers that the opposite of love is not hate... it is fear.... because all hate is rooted in fear. Thus we battle fear with love... God's love.

We can say we love God and love our fellow man, but at the moment of circumstance we resort to conditioned response of fear... we fail to believe God .... In a sense, we forget to remember who God is and how much he loves us. If only we would take a moment in the midst of the storm and remember that God loves us, all things work together for good, everything he does, he does out of love for us... personally... intimately... then the storm can be raging around us and we will not react to it.

I think that we blame far too much on the devil. Oh sure, he has lied to us over and over and over. But now, many of us have beleived the lie.... the lie that we MUST react in a certain way to protect ourselves... the lie that perpetuates fear... We have believed those lies for so long that now we are on autopilot. He doesn't have to mess with us. We mess with ourselves because we still believe the lies. Let's all purpose in our hearts to pause a moment... tell the lies to shut up... and listen to the Truth that the Holy Spirit speaks to us every moment of every day. We are loved and protected by the creator of the universe. From time to time, things may be hard... sometimes very hard... but they are never bad. (that is a judgement we don't have to make.)

 

[blondeambition3]

There is so much WISDOM on this thread. I praise and thank God for all of you.

 

[blondeambition3]

Yeah... I have a theory about that... I think it is our nature to want security. However, it is our fleshly nature to seek security in the law, rules, and control. We miss it. True security is in love... love is manifest only through relationship... security in God is only through relatioship and experiencing his faithfulness in love. It's scarey... but once there, it is very secure. More secure than the law.

Even believers are seeking security but it's easier to seek security in law and rules and control than it is to work on and trust in relationship of love. When we get shakey, the tendency is to run back to the control button and that is the law. (we see this in gov't as well as religion)... the tendency is to make a law rather than trust God in the individual.

So, as believers, some focus on the rules, doctrine, and lining up all of their ducks so that they can be secure in their little religious world.
It's a tough way to live because eventually ... just like scripture says... the law brings death.

So much wisdom in this.

 

[blondeambition3]

I think there is a difference between evil and fearful. I agree that there is evil out there. Lacking in conscience. I also think that the majority of society, especially where it applies to Christians, are afraid. They have been conditioned to react to circumstances rather than trust God and therefore fail to love. Remember the scripture, "Perfect love casts out all fear"? This infers that the opposite of love is not hate... it is fear.... because all hate is rooted in fear. Thus we battle fear with love... God's love.

We can say we love God and love our fellow man, but at the moment of circumstance we resort to conditioned response of fear... we fail to believe God .... In a sense, we forget to remember who God is and how much he loves us. If only we would take a moment in the midst of the storm and remember that God loves us, all things work together for good, everything he does, he does out of love for us... personally... intimately... then the storm can be raging around us and we will not react to it.

I think that we blame far too much on the devil. Oh sure, he has lied to us over and over and over. But now, many of us have beleived the lie.... the lie that we MUST react in a certain way to protect ourselves... the lie that perpetuates fear... We have believed those lies for so long that now we are on autopilot. He doesn't have to mess with us. We mess with ourselves because we still believe the lies. Let's all purpose in our hearts to pause a moment... tell the lies to shut up... and listen to the Truth that the Holy Spirit speaks to us every moment of every day. We are loved and protected by the creator of the universe. From time to time, things may be hard... sometimes very hard... but they are never bad. (that is a judgement we don't have to make.)

Yes! Amen!

 

[Saintscruiser]

satan never makes us do anything.....I can hear Flip Wilson saying, "Da devil made me do it, honey!" No. The p.o.p. suggests....whispers in your ear...."hey, one cigarette won't hurt you...." and there is truth in that. (I'm using myself as an example) He mixes truth and lies and he packages it up nicely, so that we are enticed....one won't hurt you. Then I asked Mom for a drag off of her cigarette in 1988, and I lost all the ground I'd gained....one week off of cigarettes, and one drag did me in. And, I smoked like a chimney until July 2010. It's like an alcoholic....one drink starts a binge. One drink won't make you an alcoholic....it's the 1000's of more after that.

There is massive evil in this world....just look at the news or read a newspaper. God protected Daniel....and the 3 young men's names I can't spell....Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednigo....(not too bad off the top of my head). There are people I don't love. I don't love Charles Manson, and I'm not ashamed of it, or Jeffrey Dahmer, or Adolf Hitler. But I love the man dying of aids, not his sin, but him. I love the sinner, not the sin. But there are some people I cannot extend that to, and I can't help it. God made me and He knows what I just cannot do. It's easy to love the lovable. It's not so easy to love the unlovable. BUT, God is a just God. He is THE Judge. He has rules to live by. The person has the choice to accept or not. It's not in God's Hands. The person chooses to go that path, not the path of God. You cannot make someone get saved. That is a decision you cannot do for another person. They have to want it. Our job is to continue to pray for them.

 

[Southern Gent]

Yeah... I have a theory about that... I think it is our nature to want security. However, it is our fleshly nature to seek security in the law, rules, and control. We miss it.

After many years in the pulpit I can verify this to be exacting. The majority of Christians would rather be told what to do and how to do it rather than accepting the personal responsibility of becoming and being.

 

[HyOnLyph]

Ooooo. Being. Lets start a thread about "being". I can get all over that. BTW... nice to have you back. Really nice!!

 

[robertlins]

The Bible says to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". I believe it is just that simple but there is more to being a "Follower of Jesus". We shall all appear before the judgement seat of Christ but the believer's sins are forgiven. Our rightiouness is found only in Jesus, not of our own. If we are saved then we have nothing to worry about. I hope this helps.

Peace

 

[bassnut]

Everybody is trying to get into the act.
According to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, certain Muslims and Christians have it covered but Jesus will probably play a back-seat roll to The Mahdi.

Jesus, Mahdi both coming,<br> says Iran's Ahmadinejad

He's pointing to the same "signs" in current events as everybody else.

Won't he be surprised on May 21! or not....

 

[Saintscruiser]

Everybody is trying to get into the act.
According to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, certain Muslims and Christians have it covered but Jesus will probably play a back-seat roll to The Mahdi.

Jesus, Mahdi both coming,<br> says Iran's Ahmadinejad

He's pointing to the same "signs" in current events as everybody else.

Won't he be surprised on May 21! or not....

Yeah, the little dictator of Iran is full of hot air.....why?Because people are looking at Israel, completely surrounded by the Arabs, and have been since May 15, 1948.....and it STILL STANDS! The land blooms and produces for the Jewish people, and wouldn't for the Arabs. If nothing else, ya gotta look at Israel's survival for the past 63 years. What cry has been heard throughout the world for that length of time? Kill the Israeli's! Take back our land! Etc, etc, etc. Almost a full 63 years later, how is it that the little tiny country of Israel is still standing? There is a supernatural protection going on over there. I call it the Hand of God....protecting His chosen.....fulfilling Prophecy in God's Holy Word, the Bible. AMEIN AND AMEIN! HALLELUJAH!

 

[trukinlady]

Amen!!!!!!!

 

[bassnut]

Almost a full 63 years later, how is it that the little tiny country of Israel is still standing? There is a supernatural protection going on over there. I call it the Hand of God....protecting His chosen.....fulfilling Prophecy in God's Holy Word, the Bible. AMEIN AND AMEIN! HALLELUJAH!

OK but maybe billions of $$ in US aid and military support over the years has helped just a little bit.
I suppose some would say that's God's work.

 

[Saintscruiser]

OK but maybe billions of $$ in US aid and military support over the years has helped just a little bit.
I suppose some would say that's God's work.

The Palestinians couldn't get the land to produce. The Jewish people come home to the land God said was theirs, and whether it was with the help of money from allies, along with hard work, the land blossoms. Yeah, I would say that's God's work!


Oh.......P.S. - Billions of dollars have been given to the Palestinians and they have spent the entire amount on weapons....not cultivating the land for survival like the Jewish people have done. The Jews wanted to live side by side with their Arab brothers, and they (the Arabs) wouldn't have any of it. What's with that?????!!!!!

 

[bassnut]

Don't know....but as far as getting the land to blossom, don't the Jews get a little credit?
I'm married to one and she's a pretty clever and resourceful woman. I chose pretty well, I think.