DILUTING 100MG MAX PG NICOTINE BASE

[nixu444]

Hi,
So I have made an order for 100mg/ml freebase nicotine with 100% PG (90%PG 10%NICOTINE)
I am planning to dilute it to 50mg into 30ML bottles. But before I would like to dilute it,
I would like to ask some guidance how to do it right without screwing it up completely.

Question 1:
Is it possible to dilute the MAX PG NICEBASE into VG base to achieve a 50VG/50PG nicotine mix?
Is there any big overall difference diluting MAX PG NICBASE into VG and not PG?

Asking this, because I got myself a 100% PG I realized later on that making E-juices with high VG with using MAX PG NICOTINE and top of taht using PG concentrates can make it bit difficult to have E-juice with low PG dose. It would make easier to hit correct mixes if NICOTINE BASE would be 50/50 VGPG

Question 2:
What is the way to weight it? I am using a scale to mix my juices. Because the ml into gram weight is different is this correct way to calculate it:
Nicotine 1ml = 1.01 grams
PG 1ml = 1.04 grams
VG 1ml = 1.26 grams

So.. would this mean that taking 1ml from nicotine base is:
NICBASE (nic+PG) = 2.05 grams

Would diluting max pg base into VG look like this to achieve 50mg 50VG/50PG (30ml):

NICBASE:
15ml x 2.05 grams = 30.7 grams

VG:
15ml x 1.26 grams = 18.9 grams

(30ml with 49.6 gram total weight)

OUTCOME:
50VG/50PG 50MG NICBASE 30ML bottle

Question 3:
Do you guys find this diluting even necessary?
I've read that people use 100mg freebase and put it into their mixes.
Only reason I would like to do this, is because I find this to be more safer option after all.

Sorry if my questions sound stupid, I am just trying to minimize a .... up.

Thanks for any help you can give me

 

[DavidOck]

HI, and welcome to ECF

For your initial dilution you may be overthinking it. Just do it by volume. You're wanting to cut the nic from 100 to 50, so half and half does that.

For weights, I use these values:
Nic in PG - 1.035 gms/ml
PG - 1.038
VG - 1.260
Flavor in PG varies, but 1.038 is a close enough average.

Yes, if you're going for high VG you should have gotten the nic in VG. Best you'll get with what you have is about 51% PG, since most flavors will add a bit of that.

My procedure is to mix my 100 down to 20, since I vape around 18, and the flavors will bring that down a tad. Sowhen I mix, I use that 20 mg "base" and just add the flavors. So my "usual" contact is only with that 20. Although 100 isn't excessively dangerous if one is careful, I find it easier to not bother with how much of 100 to add to a small bottle.

Hey, asking questions is how we learn, and if you don't know and DON'T ask, well, that's just plain silly. Smoking is easy, vaping for the long haul has been made problematic.

 

[Hawise]

Question 1: Yes, it's possible, but no, it wouldn't make much of a difference. If you dilute your base, you'll have 50 mg/ml nicotine base (at 50/50 PG/VG) instead of 100 mg/ml at 100% PG, so you'll have to add twice as much base to get to your target nicotine concentration, which will end up having the same amount of PG. The good news is that 100 mg/ml base is pretty strong, so unless you're going for a really high nic level you won't need to add much base to your mixes.

Question 2: Your VG calculation is correct, but there's an error in your PG/ nic base calculation.

You added the density of the nic (~1.01) to the density of the PG (~1.04) to get the density of the base (which you got 2.05 for). You actually need to use ratios. The base solution is about 90% PG and 10% nic, so the density of the solution would be:

PG density X 0.9 + nicotine density X 0.1

1.04 g/ml x 0.9 + 1.05 g/ml x 0.1

0.936 g/ml + 0.105 g/ml

= 1.041 g/ml

So, for the nic base in the mix, you'd want:

15 ml x 1.041 g/ml = 15.62 g

As @zoiDman pointed out, this section should read:

1.04 g/ml x 0.9 + 1.01 g/ml x 0.1

0.936 g/ml + 0.101 g/ml

= 1.037 g/ml

So, the nic base to add is:

15 ml x 1.037 g/ml = 15.56 g



I'll add that most people would just use the density of the PG for that calculation since the nicotine doesn't make much difference.

Question 3:
I don't think the dilution is really necessary, but that's just my opinion, If you're leery about working with 100 mg/ml base and would be more comfortable with 50 mg/ml, then go for it. Just remember that 100 mg/ml nicotine base (and 50 mg/ml base, really) require caution. They're not going to jump out and get you, but they do need respect. If you spill any on your skin, wash it off immediately. Make sure that children and pets are reliably out of the way before you start work (and if you have a cat, it's worth noting that PG is toxic to them).

And finally, I agree with @DavidOck - there's nothing stupid about asking questions, and your questions show you've thought things over. Feel free to ask some more if anything's unclear!

 

[zoiDman]

...

Question 2:
What is the way to weight it? I am using a scale to mix my juices. Because the ml into gram weight is different is this correct way to calculate it:
Nicotine 1ml = 1.01 grams
PG 1ml = 1.04 grams
VG 1ml = 1.26 grams

So.. would this mean that taking 1ml from nicotine base is:
NICBASE (nic+PG) = 2.05 grams

Hi nixu444. Welcome to the ECF.

Those Weights per Milliliter look ok. Some find that it is Easier to just use 1 Gram per ml for everything except Pure VG, which they use 1.3 Grams per ml. It makes doing Mental Double Check Calculations Much Simpler. When it comes to Accuracy when doing DIY, If you Can't Taste the Difference, you Don't Need and Higher Amount of Accuracy.

What is Wrong though above is the Weight for Nicotine Base.

Nicotine Base Weight per ml varies depending on whether it is 100% PG or 100% VG or something in between. And How Much Nicotine is in the Nicotine Base. But No Matter what type of Nicotine Base you have, 1 ml of Nicotine Base Can't Weigh More than 1ml of Pure VG.

Because there is Nothing in the Nicotine Base that is Heavier per ml that Pure VG.

exm:

If

Nicotine weighs 1.01 grams/ml
PG weighs 1.04 grams/ml

and

100mg/ml PG Nicotine Base = 10% Nicotine in a 90% PG Solution.

Then

100mg/ml PG Nicotine Base weighs = .1 x 1.01 (The Nicotine Portion) + .9 x 1.04 (The PG Portion)

So

100mg/ml PG Nicotine Base weighs 1.037 grams per ml.

---

Once again, You can Make doing DIY Incredibly Simple by just using 1.3g/ml for VG and 1.0g/ml for everything else. And also consider that if you get Confused with the Numbers or the Math, you can Always Weigh a ml of something as a means to Double Check Things.

TL/DR:

1 ml of NicBase Can't weigh 2.05 g/ml. Because it is made up of a Solution of Ingredients noneofwhich weigh more that 1.3 g/ml.

 

[zoiDman]

...
You added the density of the nic (~1.01) to the density of the PG (~1.04) to get the density of the base (which you got 2.05 for). You actually need to use ratios. The base solution is about 90% PG and 10% nic, so the density of the solution would be:


PG density X 0.9 + nicotine density X 0.1

1.04 g/ml x 0.9 + 1.05 g/ml x 0.1

0.936 g/ml + 0.105 g/ml

= 1.041 g/ml

I think you Typo-ed this for the weight of the Nicotine. I believe it should be ...

1.04 g/ml x 0.9 + 1.01 g/ml x 0.1

 

[Hawise]

I think you Typo-ed this for the weight of the Nicotine. I believe it should be ...

1.04 g/ml x 0.9 + 1.01 g/ml x 0.1

It should indeed. Thanks for the correction.

 

[zoiDman]

It should indeed. Thanks for the correction.

No Worries. I Fat-Fingered mine about 3 Times before I got it Right.

BTW - The New Forum Software should have a Feature when you type Really Slowly to Warn You that someone else is Posting the Same Thing as you are. But because they type at a Normal Speed, they will get done a Lot Quicker than you will.

LOL

 

[nixu444]

Hey, I want to thank you all for helping me. Kinda made me understand this much better and be more confident in upcoming mixes

I did some calculations again and understood that for me example, it would be much better to have nicotine in 20mg strength instead of 50mg, for reason being I use sub ohm and pod.
My E-Juices are sometimes are small as 10ml bottle and adding 50mg nicotine strength in to them seem to be asking for troubles. So, in cases like these it would be easier to handle 20mg nicotine, when doing small e-juice batches.

What would be the correct math for diluting
MAX PG Nicotine 100mg strength, into 20mg while having 50VG/50PG?

 

[Izan]

Hi and welcome,

Please use a calculator when mixing.

Nicotine Shot Calculator | Shortfill Calculator | All-In-One

Nicotine Shot Calculator / Shortfill Calculator - Use our handy calculator to instantly work out how much nicotine to add to your pre-mixed e-juice!

vapinghardware.com

DIY E-liquid | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

E-liquid mixing calculator. Mix by volume. Input PG/VG ratio of nic base, add PG/VG based flavors, and get detailed results for each ingredient.

www.steam-engine.org

The one I use: eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator
I use VG based nicotine and mix it with PG based flavors and cut it all with 80%VG 20%PG retail pre-mix.

Follow suggested flavor %s and ageing times.

Take good notes, date and label everything.

With new flavors, omit the nicotine until you have a mix you like. No reason to waste 200mg of nicotine in a mix that tastes like Vick's Vapor rub.

IMO, with the uncertain future of high mg/ml nicotine concentrate, I would stock up on as much 100mg/ml or stronger as I could afford to buy and store safely.
YMMV


Cheers
I

 

[ShowMeTwice]

BTW - The New Forum Software should have a Feature when you type Really Slowly to Warn You that someone else is Posting the Same Thing as you are. But because they type at a Normal Speed, they will get done a Lot Quicker than you will.

LOL

AI !!!

 

[Hawise]

Assuming you're still planning to use 30 ml bottles:

Start by calculating the amount of 100 mg/ml base you'll need.

30 ml (of diluted base) x 20 mg/ml (the final concentration) = 600 mg of nicotine

600 mg (of nicotine) / 100 mg/ml = 6 ml (of undiluted base)

An alternative way to calculate this is:

Total volume X Ratio of final nicotine concentration to undiluted base concentration

30 ml (20 mg/ml / 100 mg/ml) = 6 ml

Now, you want 15 ml of VG and 15 ml of PG, 6 ml of the PG will come from the undiluted base. Your ingredients will therefore be:

15 ml VG
9 ml PG
6 ml undiluted base

Next, convert them all into grams:

15 ml (VG) x 1.260 g/ml = 18.9 g VG

9 ml (PG) x 1.04 g/ml = 9.4 g PG

6 ml (100 mg/ml base) x 1.037 g/ml = 6.2 g undiluted base

Or you could just plug it all into an online calculator and it will work it out for you. I don't use them so I don't have one to recommend - can someone else suggest one?

ETA. I see Izan already has.

 

[zoiDman]

...

What would be the correct math for diluting
MAX PG Nicotine 100mg strength, into 20mg while having 50VG/50PG?

Here's How I think about things like this...

20mg/ml is 1/5th of 100mg/ml. So it sounds like the Diluted Mixture is going to have 5 Parts to it. One Part is the 100mg/ml Nicotine Base. And the Other 4 Parts will be PG and VG.

50PG/50VG means there are Equal Amounts of PG and VG in the 20mg/ml Mix. But the Nicotine Base is PG Based. So if I Can't Diluted with the Same Amount of PG and VG. I Need to account for there being PG already in the Nicotine Base. So I'll be Diluting with a Tad More VG than PG.

So Now I have a Mental Picture of what's going on.

1/5th is Nicotine Base. Or 1 Part Nicotine Base to 4 Parts PG and VG.
I'm going to add More VG than PG. I'm just Not Sure how much more?

So Now I go here ...

DIY E-liquid | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

E-liquid mixing calculator. Mix by volume. Input PG/VG ratio of nic base, add PG/VG based flavors, and get detailed results for each ingredient.

www.steam-engine.org

... and set the Units to Weight (mg/ml) and then set the Batch size to 10ml.

It really Doesn't Matter what the Batch Size is. But 10ml makes the Amounts Easier to Visualize than say using a Batch size of 37.63ml.

Now Fill Out the Nicotine Base Amounts and what you want your Target Mix to be. And the Software will say that to make 10ml of 20mg/ml 50|50 you will mix...

Recipe​

Add	ml	g
Nicotine base (PG)	2.00	2.07
VG	4.90	6.18
PG	3.10	3.22
Sum	10.00	11.46

Now Compare the Results with the Mental Calculations you did earlier.

2ml of PG Nicotine Base. Yeah... 2ml is 1/5 of 10ml. And 2m would be 1 Part if the 10ml was made up of 5 Parts.
Dilute with 4.9ml of VG and 3.1 of PG. That makes sense. There should be More VG that PG because the NicBase has PG in it.

So there you go.

Get a Mental Feel for the Amount of Nicotine to be Used and a "Guestimation" on the PG and VG Needed. Then use a Calculator to Crunch the Numbers.

---

Last Thing. I would Strongly Suggest doing Smaller Batch Sizes until you start to Feel Good about things. Not less than 15ml or so. But Not More than say 60ml.

Better to Hose Up a Small Batch then to FUBAR a Years worth of Nicotine in one Shot.

 

[zoiDman]

AI !!!

I could have Used It RIGHT Now.

Because I just did it Again !!!

 

[ShowMeTwice]

@nixu444, hello and welcome to ECF.

I've nothing to add that hasn't been said already.

Good luck with mixing.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I could have Used It RIGHT Now.

Because I just did it Again !!!

Lol.

I asked Classy if she would be doing ECF's next big upgrade, into the Metaverse.

Her reply...

Sooooooo not !

My brain can't handle this - it's too full !

 

[nixu444]

Damn guys.
You really took time out of your day to help me.
I want to thank all of you helping me and being so welcoming!

 

[zoiDman]

Eah...

One day someone will come to You and Ask You about something they Don't Understand. Your Job is to Try and Inform them. That way Balancing the Scales.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

1 liter of 100mg PG nic base + 1 liter of plain old VG gives you 2 liters of 50mg 50/50 nic base.

But you got all the answers you need for all your question both on here and on reddit.

Stick around here, though: we are friendlier and more open to newb questions. People who troll newb threads often will get reprimanded, unlike reddit.

...and we have a much nicer website. Hell, we can even post inline pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!