Disrespectful Little Punk

[zapped]

It was the first steps in the FDA's attempts to ban it nationwide by making it financially impossible to safely order vaping supplies. The end result, if not challenged would have been the same as a ban. Fortunately, njoy and SE sued the FDA before they could get to the point that a larger number of both business and personal vaping shipments were confiscated.

As it affected my fledgling e-cigarette business, my family and myself adversely, Im well aware of all the particulars in the matter.

Saying there was a ban when there was not spreads misinformation. Thank you for correcting your statement.

With that being said, were splitting hairs here and arguing about which one is thicker. I doubt many of our viewpoints are that dissimilar to start with. Certainly doesnt seem to be the case here at any rate.

 

[wv2win]

OK, why don't you Post your Links showing that Vape-Everywhere is Stopping Bans from Occurring.

YOU are the one who stated that vaping bans are due to how people vape. YOU are the one who can't back up your statement.

There are plenty of proposed and enacted vaping bans across the country by public officials. Yet you can not find any that was initiated by these public officials due to how someone was vaping. That speaks volumes about your statement and your veracity.

 

[zoiDman]

...

You routinely leave off the "with respect" on the "vape everywhere" position, which makes it easy to call you out on the "shaming fellow vapers" claim.

That's Funny. I seem to have mention the "R" Word in Two of my Last Three Posts.

 

[Jman8]

I dont clean my teeth, scratch my crotch, or pick my nose in the checkout line for risk of offending someone.

Same rules should apply to vapers.

A little common sense and courtesy goes a LONG way in life.

If im standing well away from someone enjoying a vape in public and someone wants to make a stink about it, thats another story.

Freedom HAS to be tempered with intelligence and respect for others...or youre just giving them cause to hate you and ammunition for them to use against you.

So, just to be clear, you wouldn't vape standing in line at a grocery store and would advocate others do not as well.

But would vape in a grocery store if you are standing well away from others enjoying a vape? (*bold emphasis mine on your post to ask this question, and to make the next point.)

A grocery store is a place included in the vape everywhere with respect position, but not necessarily every situation in that same store supports a 'vape everywhere' position.

 

[wv2win]

As it affected my fledgling e-cigarette business, my family and myself adversely, Im well aware of all the particulars in the matter.

Saying there was a ban when there was not spreads misinformation. Thank you for correcting your statement.

Technically, I agree with you. There was not a law enacted banning vaping. The confiscating of vaping supplies of both vendors and consumers by the federal government had the same effect as a ban if it had been allowed to continue. And it took a costly lawsuit to stop it.

 

[zoiDman]

YOU are the one who stated that vaping bans are due to how people vape. YOU are the one who can't back up your statement.

There are plenty of proposed and enacted vaping bans across the country by public officials. Yet you can not find any that was initiated by these public officials due to how someone was vaping. That speaks volumes about your statement and your veracity.

Seems like You asked me for Links and Examples. But when I do the Same, all you do is Dodge the Request.

Why is that?

 

[zapped]

So, just to be clear, you wouldn't vape standing in line at a grocery store and would advocate others do not as well.

But would vape in a grocery store if you are standing well away from others enjoying a vape? (*bold emphasis mine on your post to ask this question, and to make the next point.)

A grocery store is a place included in the vape everywhere with respect position, but not necessarily every situation in that same store supports a 'vape everywhere' position.

Youre correct in your assumptions...at least mostly.

I wouldnt vape in front of a bunch of children or while in a crowded area.

In fact when Im someplace like a grocery store, home supply or retail store Im much more apt to stealth vape and even then thats entirely dependent on the situation.

I frequently vape while shopping with my wife at wally world and have had zero issues.

Unless you knew what to look for you probably wouldnt even know I was vaping to start with.

Outside is another matter entirely.

Just to be clear, I dont advocate that we allow ourselves to pushed into some dark, smelly corner with the smokers. Thats the quickest way to be treated like smokers.

I just think that when we vape in public we need to temper that with courtesy, common sense and respect for others.

Something that smokers failed to do generations ago....and we can all see where that got em.

 

[Jman8]

That's Funny. I seem to have mention the "R" Word in Two of my Last Three Posts.

But not with regards to vape everywhere.

Do you think it is possible to vape everywhere with respect?

 

[zoiDman]

We're in agreement here, particularly in licensed premises. I think it would be very helpful if such premises had signs saying "Vaping encouraged here" or "Please - no e-cigarettes. Thank you". But failing that asking permission in a pub is still the right way to go imho.. Very often this leads to happy conversations where the landlord and bar staff show you what they vape.

It's like that University Campus we talked about earlier in the Week.

If students had asked if it was Ok to use an e-Cigarette in Classrooms, and then had Abided by the Answer they got, Open Air e-Cigarette use would probably still be Allowed.

But when you get Policy Makers Turned On to Banning things, they Many Times ban more than you Bargained for.

 

[AndriaD]

I wouldnt vape in front of a bunch of children or while in a crowded area.

In fact when Im someplace like a grocery store, home supply or retail store Im much more apt to stealth vape and thats entirely dependent on the situation.

Unless you knew what to look for you probably wouldnt even know I was vaping to start with.

Outside is another matter entirely.

Puzzled by this. I wouldn't take off my clothes and/or have sex, in front of a bunch of children, or a bunch of anyone for that matter. But I fail to see how vaping in front of them constitutes any rudeness or hazard. I've smoked in front of many children, I'm sure; some of them may have grown up to be smokers, but that's on them, not me. If vaping in front of them makes them grow up to be vapers... well, better a vaper than a smoker, surely, but still, it's on them -- not me.

People who say they won't do things in front of kids... well, do you think the kids just wouldn't know about it, if you don't do it in front of them? Uhh... what? That's utterly ridiculous.

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

But not with regards to vape everywhere.

Do you think it is possible to vape everywhere with respect?

No. Not in Many Situations.

Because when you Don't Ask, you are Disrespecting the Right of a Business owner to Dis-Allow e-Cigarettes inside their Buildings if they Choose to.

If a Business Owner can not Dis-Allow e-Cigarette use in their Building then Guess what? They are going to Push to Ban e-Cigarettes in ALL Buildings.

 

[Jman8]

In fact when Im someplace like a grocery store, home supply or retail store Im much more apt to stealth vape and thats entirely dependent on the situation.

Unless you knew what to look for you probably wouldnt even know I was vaping to start with.

Outside is another matter entirely.

Which is exactly my take on public vaping. Situation matters, place, not so much. Hence the "vape everywhere, with respect" position covers this. The "with respect" portion equals "depending on the situation" and is why vaping in a hospital need not be treated like verboten.

I realize that for each of us individually the "outside is another matter" position is a personal decision. I being of the "vape everywhere with respect" position have zero issues vaping outside in most situations. But those seeking public usage bans have already made outside part of those bans (fairly certain L.A. and N.Y. have ordinances on this). From the side that says situation matters not or very little, then outside is essentially equal to indoors, and is how the bans are treated.

To be clear, the outdoors from a certain perspective (i.e. regulator's perspective) doesn't matter. All of our arguments for outdoors apply to indoors as you can find yourself outdoors in heavily crowded spaces where chances of vapor floating into someone's face is applicable. Thus, outdoors is not necessarily another matter entirely. In shared reality, it is the same matter, and is treated the same in prominent public bans that have already been enacted against the vaping community.

And once we add in "third hand vapor" claims, then vaping in own home and own vehicle are suddenly on the table for additional places where it would never be sensible to vape.

 

[wv2win]

Seems like You asked me for Links and Examples. But when I do the Same, all you do is Dodge the Request.

Why is that?

You already proved MY point for me that vaping bans are not due to how people vape. There are no bans initiated or enacted due to how people vape. If there were you would have listed them.

Your post is the classic example of "misdirection", your consistent tactic when one of your many comments is proven to be unsupportable. Similar to the weak minded question: "when did you stop beating your wife?".

 

[zapped]

Which is exactly my take on public vaping. Situation matters, place, not so much. Hence the "vape everywhere, with respect" position covers this. The "with respect" portion equals "depending on the situation" and is why vaping in a hospital need not be treated like verboten.

I realize that for each of us individually the "outside is another matter" position is a personal decision. I being of the "vape everywhere with respect" position have zero issues vaping outside in most situations. But those seeking public usage bans have already made outside part of those bans (fairly certain L.A. and N.Y. have ordinances on this). From the side that says situation matters not or very little, then outside is essentially equal to indoors, and is how the bans are treated.

To be clear, the outdoors from a certain perspective (i.e. regulator's perspective) doesn't matter. All of our arguments for outdoors apply to indoors as you can find yourself outdoors in heavily crowded spaces where chances of vapor floating into someone's face is applicable. Thus, outdoors is not necessarily another matter entirely. In shared reality, it is the same matter, and is treated the same in prominent public bans that have already been enacted against the vaping community.

And once we add in "third hand vapor" claims, then vaping in own home and own vehicle are suddenly on the table for additional places where it would never be sensible to vape.

I agree with you in spirit but until they ban automobiles, factories, charcoal and gas grills and all other combustible and airborne pathogens then Ill continue to vape outside whenever space and the situation allows.

As far as L.A and N.Y go, Im not using them as a yardstick as theyre two of the most liberal states in the country. People are only going to put up with that kind of idiocy for so long before they say enough is enough.

 

[zoiDman]

You already proved MY point for me that vaping bans are not due to how people vape. There are no bans initiated or enacted due to how people vape. If there were you would have listed them.

Your post is the classic example of "misdirection", your consistent tactic when one of your many comments is proven to be unsupportable. Similar to the weak minded question: "when did you stop beating your wife?".

You are Dodging again.

Do you have any Links that Show that your Vape-Everywhere position has Stopped any Bans?

 

[Jman8]

No. Not in Many Situations.

And I would say in most situations indoors (just like outdoors) vaping with respect is plausible. If I can lay claim to vaping in a hospital and find dozens of spots in that establishment where vaping with respect is likely, then there aren't too many places that I think one can name where it would not be plausible.

But to be clear, I am more likely to vape indoors in a hospital than I am to vape outdoors on a crowded patio of a pub.

Because when you Don't Ask, you are Disrespecting the Right of a Business owner to Dis-Allow e-Cigarettes inside their Buildings if they Choose to.

If a Business Owner can not Dis-Allow e-Cigarette use in their Building then Guess what? They are going to Push to Ban e-Cigarettes in ALL Buildings.

And again this applies to outdoors as well. Do you advocate that all vapers ask in all outdoor situations? If not, then they would automatically be engaged in the disrespect of which you speak. If they go ahead and vape, without asking, but vape with respect to people around them, then in my book, this is a non-issue. But based on what you've written, it is inherently disrespectful, even if zero people are around. Likewise, if I vape in a place where I think it may not be permitted (i.e. hospital), but there are zero people around, I call that openly vaping with respect. Pretty sure you think vaping in a hospital, regardless of the situation or amount of people present, is wrong, and is for sure wrong if hospital has policy of no vaping anywhere on the property. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken on this.

 

[Jman8]

You are Dodging again.

Do you have any Links that Show that your Vape-Everywhere position has Stopped any Bans?

He does not, nor do you have any links that show vaping openly anywhere is the cause of public bans.

Hence, let's be clear that the cause of bans has zero to do with how people are currently vaping in public and has everything to do with how much political influence ANTZ-like entities have on a governmental body that may choose to go in this direction.

 

[zoiDman]

... Pretty sure you think vaping in a hospital, regardless of the situation or amount of people present, is wrong, and is for sure wrong if hospital has policy of no vaping anywhere on the property. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken on this.

Once again you Are.

If you go to a Hospital and Ask if Vaping is Allowed, and they tell you Yes, I think it is Great that you can Vape in a Hospital either as a Visitor or as a Patient.

Where you and I Clash Jman is I would like to see People Ask. And then Honor the Wishes of the Business Owner.

Vape-Everwhere Isn't about Asking. It's about Vaping Everywhere. And some believe the Reason that Many Do Not Ask is because they are Afraid they will be Told No.

 

[wv2win]

You are Dodging again.

Do you have any Links that Show that your Vape-Everywhere position has Stopped any Bans?

You postulated that vaping bans are due to how people vape in public. I asked you to prove it, period. You didn't. Since I never stated that vaping in public everywhere has stopped any bans, I have nothing to prove.

You can misdirect and try to put words in others mouths all you want. It won't work. Either prove your statement, retract it or be viewed for what you are.

I'm done with your little trollish game.

 

[zoiDman]

He does not, nor do you have any links that show vaping openly anywhere is the cause of public bans.

Hence, let's be clear that the cause of bans has zero to do with how people are currently vaping in public and has everything to do with how much political influence ANTZ-like entities have on a governmental body that may choose to go in this direction.

Then why does he Demand that Others do what he Can Not Do Himself?