DIY Flavor Consensus

[CallmeB]

So I can't imagine how there could be a scientific measure of flavor strength, but this business of trial and error is terribly inefficient. So I have an idea. In cases of opinion I rely on consensus, so what we need is a way to take a consensus of as many DIYers as possible and get each to specify in a 50/50 mix what percent is ideal for them. Then after 100 or so rate a flavor it can be posted that this many ppl think 15% is ideal; this many think 5% is ideal. This would give us DIYer noobs a much better jumping off point than scouring the forums and hearing one guy say 10% and another say 30% with sweetener and EM. We need some consensus to show a foundational amount for each flavor.

Does that make sense? Sorry I've got kids running around behind me and I'm not sure I explained that clearly or not. Basically I'd like an "Ask the Audience" post where you can get an idea of a range that most ppl agree on.

 

[Ripshod]

I think you may be taking a lot on here. Flavor perception can vary massively, and compiling that info may just turn your hair white. Also an individual's sense of taste will change as their sense of smell recovers from the cigarettes.
eg. I vape Anise, with everything. When I first started mixing my own I was having to add 15% Anise just to taste it. After 4 weeks I had to reduce to 10ml as my smell returned. Now, after nearly 7 weeks I've had to reduce it again to 6.6%. You'll have to factor this into your results, as well as the differences between flavor manufacturers. DKS Anise is weak - FA Anise rocks. The nicotine level will also have an effect.

If you want to work this all out there's your first bit of data.

 

[williebb123]

i dont think it is possible 1st each maker sets their own strength of each flavor and recommended % 2nd everybody has their own sense of how strong they like their flavors to be , i would suggest start maybe 3-5 % lower than recommended per maker and go from there i know thats not what you want to hear but i think its being realistic

 

[CallmeB]

Granted I'm a total noob to all this, but I'm sure there is a way to profile ppl's taste then gather their input on flavors and spit out some results.

Ok so let's look at some variables here.

1. What types of flavors do you prefer to vape?
2. How would you rate your preference in strength of flavor on a scale from 1-10? 1 being no taste and 10 being enough flavor to smell it from the street when you vape in ur house.
3. How long have you been mixing juice?
4. What ratio of PG/VG do you prefer?

the point of all the questions would be to profile individuals. Eventually you will have types of ppl who tend to have overall similar tastes. This is how marketing works and meta data. Seemingly ambiguous information is gathers to profile you. The reason you would need to profile ppl is so that you have some reference to view their opinion from. Like say I love fruit vapes and I weigh in on a tobacco flavor saying I think it should be mixed at less than 2%. My opinion would be rated lower in relevance than a person who vapes only tobacco and has been doing so for years and mixing it for years. Sorta like one of those chick mags with their relationship quizzes. It would require an algorithm that tallied up all the person's profile quiz answers and assigned them points in an array of attributes. Then the algorithm would assign a relevance rating to your opinion on a given flavor.

I don't code, but I definitely have a mind for logical systems. I know this could be done. All that has to be worked out are the variables. The more variables and/or questions the more accurate the resulting tally, but then also the person seeking the advice would have answered the same questions already and it works like Match.com after that.

See what I mean? There's gotta be some code monkeys on this forum. Make it happen. Get rich.

 

[flowerpots]

I think this is a great idea and would be helpful to new comers who don't have time or want to read for 3 weeks straight just to get an idea of what they need to buy and do. I'm just not sure who can make it happen. I agree there is a huge variation in what people say you should use % wise, but that's to be expected. I don't agree that a veteran can necessarily be a better determinant of taste though. If you know what you like, most of us have been tasting things long enough to be able to know what something tastes like or whether it's vapeable or not. It does help if when people review a flavor if instead of saying "This sucks!" they give an actual descriptive review that others can use to make an informed decision.

There is a TFA thread somewhere - I will try to find it - that has general %'s, but only for the TFA line.

 

[flowerpots]

Here's a Capella thread that gives general % guidelines:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/427782-list-capella-flavor-percentages.html

 

[flowerpots]

This is a list I saved from somewhere. I know it's not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe it will help

TFA %'s:

Champagne Type Flavor (PG) 2%-5%
Cheesecake Flavor 3-15%, 2/5
Cherry Blossom (PG) 5%-15%
Chocolate Flavor 2%-15%,
Chocolate Mint (Not Listed ) 10%
Cinnamon Flavor(alc) .25%
Cinnamon RedHots Flavor 5-10%
Cinnamon Spice Flavor .5% to start
Cinnamon Sugar Cookie 5%-15%
Clove Flavor 2-3%
Coconut Extra Flavor 2%-10%
Coffee (Clear) 0.25%
Coffee (Kona) Flavor 1drop/10ml
Cola Flavor 5%-10%
Cinnamon Sugar Cookie 5%-15%
Clove Flavor 2-3%
Coconut Extra Flavor 2%-10%
Coffee (Clear) 0.25%
Coffee (Kona) Flavor 1drop/10ml
Cola Flavor 5%-10%
Cotton Candy Flavor 2%-20%,
Creme De Menthe Flavor 10%
DK Tobacco Base Flavor 2%-5%
Double Chocolate (Clear) Flavor 10-12%
Dragonfruit Flavor 5-12%
Dulce de Leche Flavor <10%> - overpowering at 20%
Energy Drink Flavor 10%
English Toffee Flavor 15-17%
Flue Cured Flavor 2%
French Vanilla Flavor 5%-10%
Graham Cracker Flavor 2%-15%
Grape Jolly Rancher 8% - 10%
Grape Juice Flavor 8%-12%
Green Apple Flavor 5%-20%
Green Tea Flavor 5%-15%
Gummy Candy Flavor 7%
Hawaiian Punch Flavor 12%
Hazelnut Flavor 16%
Hazelnut Praline Flavor 5%
Hibiscus Flavor 2%
Holiday Spice Flavor 0.5%-1-2% (start at 0.5%)
Honey Flavor 1-5%
Honeydew Flavor 5-10%
Honeysuckle Flavor 10- 15%
Horchata Flavor 5%, 5/5 0%
Hpno Type Flavor (alc) 5% -10%
Irish Cream Flavor 10 - 12%
Key Lime Flavor 3%-10%
Key Lime Flavor Concentrate 12%
Koolada 10% (PG) 3-10 %
Lemon Lime Flavor 5%
Licorice(not listed) 3%- 10%
Lime Flavor (Essential Oil) 1-5%
Lychee Flavor 2-7%
M Type Premium Flavor 0.5%-1%
Malted Milk Extra (Conc) 5%
Mango Flavor 2%-15%
Maple Syrup Flavor 10-15%
Maraschino Cherry (PG) 5%
Menthol Liquid (PG) 1-5%
Mild Black <2.5% (VERY strong)
Milk Chocolate Flavor 4%-20%
Mint Candy 12%, Mocha 5%
Nectarine Flavor 11%
Orange Cream Flavor 5-10%
Papaya Flavor 10%
Peach (Juicy) Flavor 5%- 17%
Peach Flavor 12-15%
Peanut Butter Flavor 10-15%
Pear Flavor 10-15%
Peppermint Flavor 5%-15%
Pie Crust Flavor 0.5%
Pina Colada 15%
Pineapple Flavor 3%-15%
Pizza Flavor ~5%
Plum Flavor (PG) 5-10%
Pomegranate Flavor 7.5%-14%
Popcorn Flavor 13%-15%
Quince Flavor 10%
Raisin Flavor 0.5%-3%
Raspberry Flavor 5-10%
Red Type Blend 5-15%
Red Oak 3%
sweet and smokey Ripe Banana Flavor 8-12%
Rose Candy Flavor 7%
RY4 Asian Flavor 10-15%
RY4 Double Flavor 5%-15%
Smooth Flavor 2 drops per 5 ml
Spearmint Flavor <5%
Strawberries and Cream Flavor 10-12%
Strawberry Flavor 3%-15%
Strawberry Ripe 15% **I like to add a drop per 5ml of TFA Sweetener to mine**
Sweet Cream Flavor 5-10%
Sweet Tarts Type Flavor 10%
Sweetener 2%-6%L
Tangerine Flavor 1-5%
Tiramisu Flavor 1%-15% VERY strongflavoring
Toasted Almond Flavor 15%
Toasted Marshmallow Flavor 1%-15%
Tobacco Absolute (1. Pure) <1%
Tobacco Blend (Alc) 0.5-2.5%
Tobacco Flavor 10-20%
Tutti Frutti flavor 10-15%
Vanilla (Bourbon) Flavor(alc) 10-15%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream Flavor 4-8% (excellent mixer) *** this contains Acetyl Propionyl, which carries potential inhalation risks.
Vanilla Cupcake 5%-20%
Vanilla Swirl 5% -10%
Violet Candy Flavor 10% - 12%
Waffle (Belgian) Flavor 8-12%
Waffle Flavor (alc) 20% *** contains a trace amount of one "Custard" ingredient (acetyl propionyl)
Watermelon Flavor 15%
Whipped Cream Flavor 14%
White Chocolate Flavor 10%

 

[CallmeB]

Great posts flowerpots. You know what else is widely varying? People's taste in women/men. The method I'm talking about is already being used on dating sites. I really need a coder.

 

[flowerpots]

Here are FA's % guidelines:


Arctic Menthol 5%
Barley Malt 2%
Beer 5%
Bread at 1-2% + your favorite simple-tobacco flavor.
Butterscotch 3%
Caramel 2%
Catalan Cream 5%
Cherry Black 4%
Chocolate 2%
Cinnamon Ceylon 5%
Cocoa 5%
Coconut 10%
Cola 5% 5/5
Condensed Milk 3-5%
Coffee Espresso 2%
Cookie 10%
Dark Vapor 1%
Fruits of the Forest 3%
Grapefruit 3-5%
Green Tea 3%
Hazelnut Toasted 2%
Honey 3%
Hypnotic Mist 5%
Irish Cream 3%
Lemon Sicily 7%
Licorice flavor 4%
Mad Fruit (Red Bull)15%
Mangosteen 8%
Mandarin 5%
Maple Syrup 2%
Maxx Blend 3%
Nut Mix 3%
Oba Oba 10%
Oba Oba 7%
Pineapple 3% 5/5
Peppermint 5%
RY4 20 -25%
Strawberry 2%
Tiramisu 4%
Torrone 4%
Vanilla Bourbon 5%
Vanilla Classic 2%
Vanilla Tahity 10%
Vienna Cream 10%
Watermelon at 5-9% (soft-strong)
Yoghurt 6%
Zen Garden 5%

 

[Thunderball]

"Somebody's always trying to skate uphill"

 

[CallmeB]

"Somebody's always trying to skate uphill"

Skating up hill is what brought you e cigs to begin with. Questioning the norm is what births innovation.

 

[Huckleberried]

I started my adventure, not very long ago, at all, by reading the stickies in the DIY forum. Then I read a ton of posts. I read some of the REALLY long threads to gather info on different brands of flavorings and found that really helpful. I scoured the recipes sub-forum and put ideas together. When I felt comfortable with reading AND understanding what people were talking about, I ordered stuff to start out with. Then I made other people's recipes. That's kind of how I got a guideline for flavors and how little was actually needed for it. I was so surprised at how little flavoring it takes to make really good mixes.

I wanted it all in one day. I can't have it all in one day. I had to play, screw up, get a feel for it, make a winner....... and that one was only vapeable. In time, and learning about what flavorings do, alone and for other flavors, I've learned how to create my own recipes, and that's still only a couple. ECF has some really great teachers at DIY.

 

[CallmeB]

I'm noticing a lot of the Houston vape shops that are popping up have guys running them that don't really know what they are doing. They are so surprised that I know about the Juice me up calculator and they only mix 50/50 (I take that to mean they don't fully understand the nuances of what that ratio will do to their mix and they are just going with what seems safe). These are ofc just my first impressions of these guys. I might be completely wrong. They certainly know how to mix more flavors than I do. But how hard is it when you have 1000's of bottles and jugs of all the flavors and other components. If I had that, I'd be a master in 30 days. Able to mix any flavor.

I'd just mix up 10 bottles 50/50 with slight variations to flavor percent, steep time, then drip atomize test em one by one keeping records of everything. I can't afford that. I get frustrated by how widely the opinions on how to mix this stuff sway one way or the other. One person swears by 5% the next 15%. Both seemingly equal in experience.

 

[Huckleberried]

If I'm mixing FA or INW, I'm using less than 5%. if I'm mixing Capella's, I'm mixing upwards of 12%. which seems extreme, albeit necessary. Some TFA's are high. TFA is all over the map, imo.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Few flavors have a huge range of usable percentage of inclusion, 15% tends to be the very upper limit.

The low end tends to be 0.5%.

The lower percentage flavors tend to have a smaller percentage of variance as well.

Let's take Koolada TFA for example, 0.5 to 1.0% is effective in getting the cooling effect, you could effectively make up samples at 0.01% increments from 0.4 to 1.1% or bracket by doing samples at 0.5%, 1.5%, 1.0% and judging more or less each time, and adjusting in the appropriate direction.

Copious notes help you evaluate future tries.

Things like Chocolate are rarely what you expect by themselves. However if you view them as individual components of a final flavor you'll do better. With this in mind, your notes should also reflect not only percentages but what you experience at that percentage.

Just remember, each flavor has a range it can be used effectively in, and as soon as you mix two flavors together you effectively can have a hundred or more potential combinations with just a 10% range with each flavor especially when you toss in VG/PG ratios and nicotine percentages.

Maurice

 

[rowdyplace]

I beleive this is a later version of TFA's list. Wingsfan posted this at the end of 2013. I have not seen a more recent list.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...0-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread-168.html
Post #1671


This is my list that I try to update when someone posts a "vapable" percentage. No mixes--all straight single flavors.

555 10-20% 2/5
Absinthe Flavor Concentrate 5-10%
Almond Amaretto Flavor Concentrate 5-10% 5/5
American Red Tobacco Flavor Concentrate 3-10%
Apple Candy 15%
Apple Flavor 10-15%, 4.5/5
Banana Cream Flavor 5-15%
Banana Nut Bread Flavor 5-7%
Bavarian Cream Flavor 5-15%
Bittersweet Chocolate (Extra) Flavor 10-15% 4/5
Black Cherry Flavor 5-15% 5/5
Black Honey Tobacco 3-5%
Black Sesame Seed Flavor .1 %
Black Tea Flavor 2.5-12% 3/5
Blackberry Flavor 2-15%
Blueberry 15%
Blueberry Candy 13%
Blueberry (Wild) Flavor 15%
Blueberry Flavor (Extra) 10-13% 6/5
Boysenberry Flavor 5/5 ~1%
Brown Sugar 15-20% 4/5
Brown Sugar Extra 2%-10%
Bubblegum Flavor 10-15%
Butterscotch Flavor 12%
Cantaloupe 10-12%
Caramel Candy Flavor 15-20% 5/5
Caramel Cappuccino Flavor- No more than 2 drop in 10ml base
Caramel Flavor 10-15% 5/5
Chai Tea Flavor 10% 5/5
Champagne Type Flavor (PG) 5-7%
Cheesecake Flavor 5-15%, 2/5
Cherry Blossom (PG) 5%-15%
Chocolate Flavor 10%-15% 5/5
Citrus Punch Flavor 5-7%
Chocolate Mint (Not Listed ) 10% (more chocolate than mint)
Cinnamon Danish 10-12% 4/5 (needs to steep)
Cinnamon Flavor(alc) .25-.5%
Cinnamon Red Hots Flavor 5-10% 5/5
Cinnamon Spice Flavor .5% to start
Cinnamon Sugar Cookie 5%-15%
Clove Flavor 2-3%
Coconut Candy: 5-10% 5/5
Coconut Extra Flavor 2%-10% 5/5
Coffee (Clear) 0.25-5%
Coffee (Kona) Flavor 1drop/10ml 4/5
Cola Flavor 5-10% 5/5
Cotton Candy Flavor 10-20% 5/5
Crème de Menthe 5-14%
DK Tobacco Base Flavor 2%-5%
Double Chocolate (Clear) Flavor 10-12% 4/5
Dragonfruit Flavor 5-12%
Dulce de Leche Flavor 10% - overpowering at 20%
Earl Grey Tea 2-3%
Eggnog 10-20%
Energy Drink Flavor 10%
English Toffee Flavor 5-17%
Espresso 3% or less
Flue Cured Flavor 2%
French Vanilla Flavor 5%-10%
Gingerbread Cookie 8-10%
Graham Cracker Flavor 10-15% 5/5 recommended for combining
Grape Jolly Rancher 8% - 10%
Grape Juice Flavor 8%-12%
Green Apple Flavor 12-20%
Green Tea Flavor 5%-15%
Gummy Candy Flavor 7%
Hawaiian Punch Flavor 12%
Hazelnut Flavor 16% 5/5
Hazelnut Praline Flavor 5% 2/5
Hibiscus Flavor 1-2%
Holiday Spice Flavor 0.5-3% (start at 0.5%)
Honey Flavor 1-5%
Honeydew Melon Flavor 5-10%
Honeysuckle Flavor 10- 15% tank cracker
Horchata Flavor 5%, 5/5
Hpno Type Flavor (alc) 5-10%
Irish Cream Flavor 10 - 12%
Juicy Fruit 10-13%
Kalua & Cream 5%+
Key Lime Flavor 3%-10%
Key Lime Flavor Concentrate 12%
Key Lime Pie 12%
Koolada 10% (PG) .5-1%
Lemon Lime Flavor 5% 4/5
Licorice(not listed) 3%- 10% 5/5 long steep time (weeks)
Lime Flavor (Essential Oil) 1-5% 4/5
Lychee Flavor 2-7%
M Type Premium Flavor 0.5%-1%
Malted Milk Extra (Conc) 5% (best mixed with others)
Mango Flavor 10-15%
Maple Syrup Flavor 10-15
Maraschino Cherry (PG) 5% 4/5
Menthol Arctic: 2 drops/ml 5/5
Menthol Liquid (PG) 2-5%
Mild Black <2.5% (VERY strong)
Milk Chocolate Flavor 4%-20% 4/5
Mint Candy 12% 4/5
Mint Chocolate Chip 10%
Mocha 5%
Mt. Dew 10-20%
Musk Candy Flavor <3%
Nectarine Flavor 11%
Orange Cream Flavor 5-10% 5/5
Papaya Flavor 10% 5/5
Passion Fruit Flavor <20%
Peach Flavor 12-15%
Peach (Juicy) Flavor 5%- 17%
Peanut Butter Flavor 10-15% 5/5
Pear Flavor 10-15% 4.5/5
Peppermint Flavor 5%-15%
Pie Crust Flavor .5-12%
Pina Coloda 15%
Pineapple Flavor 15% 4.5/5 (authentic flavor w/5% EM)
Pizza Flavor ~5% 5/5
Plum Flavor 5-10% 4/5
Pomegranate Flavor 7.5%-14%
Popcorn Flavor 13%-15%
Pumpkin 7%
Quince Flavor 10%
Raisin Flavor 0.5%-3% (Powerful)
Raspberry Flavor 5-10%
Red Bull: 10%
Red Type Blend 5-15%
Red Oak 3% sweet and smokey
Ripe Banana Flavor 8-20%
Rose Candy Flavor 7%
RY4 Asian Flavor 10-15%
RY4 Double Flavor 5%-15%
Smooth Flavor 2 drops per 5 ml
Spearmint Flavor <5% Very Strong
Strawberries and Cream Flavor 10-12%
Strawberry Flavor 3%-15%
Strawberry Kiwi 20% 1/5
Strawberry Ripe 15%
Sweet Cream Flavor 5-10% 4/5 recommended for combining fake butter taste
Sweet Tart: 10% 5/5 Tastes more like Smarties
Sweetener 2%-6%
Tangerine Flavor (oil based) 1-5% 5/5
Tiramisu Flavor 2-5% VERY strong
Toasted Almond Flavor 15%
Toasted Marshmallow Flavor 10-15%
Tobacco Absolute (1. Pure) <1%
Tobacco Blend (Alc) 0.5-2.5%
Tobacco Flavor 10-20%
Tutti Frutti flavor 10-15% 4.5/5
Vanilla (Bourbon) Flavor(alc) 10-15% 4.5/5
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream Flavor 4-8% 4/5 (excellent mixer) *** this containsAcetyl Propionyl, which carries potential inhalation risks.
Vanilla Cupcake 20%
Vanilla Swirl 10%
Violet Candy Flavor 10% - 12%
Waffle (Belgian) Flavor 8-12%
Waffle Flavor 20% 5/5
Watermelon Flavor 15% 4/5
Whipped Cream Flavor 14% 3/5
White Chocolate Flavor 10%
Wintergreen: 20% 5/5
PA Sucralose Sweetener: .5-2%+ 4.5/5

The last 2 numbers (4/5) means that is what someone has rated this flavor. 5/5 is perfect...