Dna 200 noob question about temp control

[Fred morales]

hi guys, I recently quit smoking and tried going the vape route. Glad to say I'm 3 months and going without a cigarette.

I originally purchased a vaporfi rocket starter kit but the batteries had died on me twice... As a gift I received a brand new volcano lava box DNA 200 with a tube tank pro. The atomizers are kanthal although I hear nickel is what I should purchase. I have to admit it's far beyond my level of understanding as I'm so new to this and every time I look up some tutorials my brain begins to pour out of my ears.

I'm using a 0.6% nic juice with a 30/70 vg pg. still getting harsh hits and its firing warm. The temp is adjusted at 450 out of the box and I'm keeping down to 20 watts because any higher, the throat hit is too harsh and any lower I get no real vapor production. Any suggestions on a temp/wattage/ohm profile I should be using? I keep reading about safety issues etc with temp control so I'm not going nuts fiddling with this box as of now until I get a complete grip on the nuances.

I apologize for my naive-ness on the subject but I could use some pointers and or a link to a guide with a noob in mind. Thanks.

 

[djsvapour]

Welcome to ECF

If you are using Kanthal coils with temperature control I'm afraid that doesn't work.

(Too long to explain)... so take it out of temperature mode.

Anyway. A person that dumps Vaporfi gets my vote...

I'm not exactly a fan of Volcano either, but that would be based on their low-end kit which is not exactly what one would look for price vs quality.

 

[awsum140]

Hi, and welcome to the crazy world of vaping. You have gone from the proverbial frying pan into the fire with your vaping equipment.

I would suggest that you look around ECF for DNA200 threads, lots of information is available. Also download and install the eScribe software from Evolv. The DNA200 is a very customizable device and that software will let you customize yours as well as monitor, in real time, what the device is actually doing.

The DNA200 will not really run in "temperature" mode with a kanthal coil. It can sense the lack of resistance change of kanthal and just won't monitor temperature. You can "lock" it into power only mode by getting into temperature adjustment mode and raising the temperature to maximum, then ne more button push to get to "off".

It does need specific wire type in the coil, nickel, titanium or some grades of stainless steel, to actually be able to monitor temperature. I use titanium in mine after experiencing a metallic taste from nickel. Some, prebuilt, tank systems are available with titanium or nickel for use in temperature controlled devices. Wire is available for use in rebuildable atomizers and there are loads of those out there for you to research and try.

It will also go below 20 watts, as low as 1 watt, and if you lower the power you should lose that harsh effect in the vapor. I'm currently using an Aromamizer, dual coil, rebuildable tank at 30 watts on my DNA200. It has a very open air flow which becomes very important as power levels go higher.

 

[suprtrkr]

Yeah, I am not familiar with that mod, but the TC function will not work with Kanthal coils. Take it out of TC mode and run straight variable wattage unless/until you can get some TC coils for your tank. Part of your throat hit problem is probably your 70/30 VG/PG mix. a 50/50 mix will be smoother for you.

 

[Bunnykiller]

TC mode is like cruise control in your car... you set the speed and the computer makes the car go that speed. With the mod, it can set the heat level for Ni and Ti but not Kanthal...

Ni and Ti have a pretty specific resistance which can be accounted for in the code in the chip ( software/firmware) but kanthal isnt as specific and higher in resistance than Ni/Ti and changes too much/erratically during the heating cycle making it difficult to maintain an even temperature...

 

[awsum140]

TC mode is like cruise control in your car... you set the speed and the computer makes the car go that speed. With the mod, it can set the heat level for Ni and Ti but not Kanthal...

Ni and Ti have a pretty specific resistance which can be accounted for in the code in the chip ( software/firmware) but kanthal isnt as specific and higher in resistance than Ni/Ti and changes too much/erratically during the heating cycle making it difficult to maintain an even temperature...

The problem with kanthal and temperature control, as it is currently implemented, is that kanthal does not change resistance over an extremely wide range of temperatures, from say 100F to 1000F which is why it works so well for industrial heating elements. Nickel and titanium do change, slightly and predictably over that range which is why they can be used for temperature control. Since vaping occurs at temperatures normally below 500F they work out quite well. Some alloys of stainless steel also change predictably and can be used for temperature control mods.

Truly effective temperature control would require a separate sensor, and the associated connections through the atomizer connector, to actually measure the coil temperature, although in an indirect way. Overall accuracy would probably increase quite a bit given the extremely low resistances of titanium, nickel and stainless steel coils.

 

[Susan~S]

Here are some links for you.

1. Vaping 360 - Basic Guide to Temperature Control
2. YouTube Reviews - Volcano DNA 200 Lavabox
3. PBusardo Reviews (Part 1 of 3) - DNA 200 Board

I didn't link to part 2/3 of PBusardo's DNA 200 videos. Part 2 has two videos (on the EScribe software). Part 3 has one video (on different DNA 200 mods).

 

[jseah]

Yeah, I am not familiar with that mod, but the TC function will not work with Kanthal coils. Take it out of TC mode and run straight variable wattage unless/until you can get some TC coils for your tank. Part of your throat hit problem is probably your 70/30 VG/PG mix. a 50/50 mix will be smoother for you.

If you look at the OP's post, he mentions that his juice is 70 PG and 30 VG. PG will produce a greater throat hit, so switching it to a lower PG juice will improve it and make a smoother vape. Personally, I typically go with a 70 or 80 VG, and when I mix my own juice, the only PG is in the flavoring.

Also, not all nicotine is the same. There are only two lines of premade juice (Ruthless Vapor and Bamboo Elixir) that I can handle at 6 mg. All other brands I need to go with 3 mg because their nicotine is too harsh for me.

 

[suprtrkr]

If you look at the OP's post, he mentions that his juice is 70 PG and 30 VG. PG will produce a greater throat hit, so switching it to a lower PG juice will improve it and make a smoother vape. Personally, I typically go with a 70 or 80 VG, and when I mix my own juice, the only PG is in the flavoring.

Also, not all nicotine is the same. There are only two lines of premade juice (Ruthless Vapor and Bamboo Elixir) that I can handle at 6 mg. All other brands I need to go with 3 mg because their nicotine is too harsh for me.

Quite right, I have a typo. What you said is what I meant.

 

[Fred morales]

First and foremost, thank you to everyone here for getting back to me so quickly with so much good information.
As for coils, I'm a little perplexed that volcano would even include kanthal in the kit they sent out with their Dna 200 mod. With it not being usable for temp control, it seems to defeat the purpose.

I'm still not sure what the best brand is or who's the most reputable. Vaporfi, while helping me quit seems to have some quality issues. 2-5 atomizers would be busted per pack almost regularly. Battery life totally unpredictable. Shipping prices seemed to be a bit heavy handed as well but what can I say... I'm thankful to not have a carton of cigs in my house right now. This box does seem well built though as I've handled a few but have never owned one. Upon doing my own research, the cloudmaker Dna 200 is probably what I would end ended up with if I was shopping for myself.

I am going to follow everyone's advice though. Going to hit up the shop today for a higher vg juice and going to order some nickel coils as I'm not sure this tank has a titanium option. If it does, I may try both just to have a better understanding of the differences first hand.

 

[Fred morales]

Here are some links for you.

1. Vaping 360 - Basic Guide to Temperature Control
2. YouTube Reviews - Volcano DNA 200 Lavabox
3. PBusardo Reviews (Part 1 of 3) - DNA 200 Board

I didn't link to part 2/3 of PBusardo's DNA 200 videos. Part 2 has two videos (on the EScribe software). Part 3 has one video (on different DNA 200 mods).

Great, will check them all out today

 

[djsvapour]

The problem, i.m.o. is BRANDS.
A brand is not the same as a manufacturer of hardware.
...just to confuse things more, the manufacturers are actually assembly lines more often than not.
Either way, if you are talking hardware that has a label on it (either laser etched or painted) then you are probably being taken for a ride.
The Volcano DNA 200 is probably the first mod I have even taken notice of... it looks very special to me.
In previous times, I just bypassed everything they made as you could buy it elsewhere for half the money. When they were selling 'early' Lavatubes for $100, I got mine for $25. Same product, only bought elsewhere.

 

[suprtrkr]

First and foremost, thank you to everyone here for getting back to me so quickly with so much good information.
As for coils, I'm a little perplexed that volcano would even include kanthal in the kit they sent out with their Dna 200 mod. With it not being usable for temp control, it seems to defeat the purpose.

I'm still not sure what the best brand is or who's the most reputable. Vaporfi, while helping me quit seems to have some quality issues. 2-5 atomizers would be busted per pack almost regularly. Battery life totally unpredictable. Shipping prices seemed to be a bit heavy handed as well but what can I say... I'm thankful to not have a carton of cigs in my house right now. This box does seem well built though as I've handled a few but have never owned one. Upon doing my own research, the cloudmaker Dna 200 is probably what I would end ended up with if I was shopping for myself.

I am going to follow everyone's advice though. Going to hit up the shop today for a higher vg juice and going to order some nickel coils as I'm not sure this tank has a titanium option. If it does, I may try both just to have a better understanding of the differences first hand.

FWIW, Some people like TC for some juices and not others. I have several mods with TC circuitry, and spools of Ni200 wire, but I mostly wind Kanthal coils.

 

[Fred morales]

The problem, i.m.o. is BRANDS.
A brand is not the same as a manufacturer of hardware.
...just to confuse things more, the manufacturers are actually assembly lines more often than not.
Either way, if you are talking hardware that has a label on it (either laser etched or painted) then you are probably being taken for a ride.
The Volcano DNA 200 is probably the first mod I have even taken notice of... it looks very special to me.
In previous times, I just bypassed everything they made as you could buy it elsewhere for half the money. When they were selling 'early' Lavatubes for $100, I got mine for $25. Same product, only bought elsewhere.

I understand that. Going into this, I was naive in assuming there would be a leading brand and not many variables involved when making a purchase. I think the only reason I was concerned with a brand was for accountability. I've heard the horror stories about safety concerns in the past with mods but from my research, those problems seemingly arose from shotty homemade craftsmanship.

Being as new as I am to this I figured the safest route was to go with a "popular" name brand... What I found was a market that is overly saturated with options. A steep learning curve. And thankfully, this forum and you guys willing to steer noobs like me in a good direction.

 

[Fred morales]

Just an update.

Today I went to the local vape shop to see if they carried the nickel coils for the tube tank pro. They didn't, but it was always my intention to buy an alternate tank so I can have the option to switch flavor son the fly. I bought a uwell crown and it came with one nickel coil.
Happy to say my vamping experience is 100% better. I'm sticking to about 400 degrees F and 30 watts at the moment and the hit is just right (for me). I also picked up a couple new juices with low nic (.3 and .6) at about 85vg 15 pg and an 80/20. So far so good. High Vg seems to be the way I need to go although the flavor seems a bit muted. Regardless, I'm on my way and I appreciate the helping hand.

 

[jseah]

FWIW, Some people like TC for some juices and not others. I have several mods with TC circuitry, and spools of Ni200 wire, but I mostly wind Kanthal coils.

When I use a tank, I use it with TC coils. In my RDA's, I've gone back to using kanthal coils. With drippers, my coils get all gunked up after a day to at most two days use. Since you can't dry burn TC coils, it is a real pain to try to clean the coils. With kanthal, I can dry burn it to burn off all that caramelized juice caked onto the coil and then rewick it.

 

[suprtrkr]

When I use a tank, I use it with TC coils. In my RDA's, I've gone back to using kanthal coils. With drippers, my coils get all gunked up after a day to at most two days use. Since you can't dry burn TC coils, it is a real pain to try to clean the coils. With kanthal, I can dry burn it to burn off all that caramelized juice caked onto the coil and then rewick it.

Me too, except my tank coils get gunky too. One of the big reasons I've gone back to Kanthal. I never got any real great benefit frim TC. I wick rayon, and it doesn't burn like cotton. My tanks are all SS/Pyrex, I can see the juice level. And I like my drippers on mech mods anyway. Kanthal suits me just fine. I don't use regulated boxes for anything but tanks, or blowing cloud.

 

[jseah]

Me too, except my tank coils get gunky too. One of the big reasons I've gone back to Kanthal. I never got any real great benefit frim TC. I wick rayon, and it doesn't burn like cotton. My tanks are all SS/Pyrex, I can see the juice level. And I like my drippers on mech mods anyway. Kanthal suits me just fine. I don't use regulated boxes for anything but tanks, or blowing cloud.

For some reason, my TC coils in tanks don't gunk as fast. Maybe it is because the coil is constantly moist from juice in the tank? My tank TC coils usually last me from a minimum of a week (if I am heavily using the one tank to the tune of 10 ml a day) to several weeks. In fact, I had this one coil (Vaporshark ni200 coil in an Atlantis 2) that I was vaping one particular juice in that I had only replaced at the beginning month after using it for over 4 months and vaping over 150 ml of juice with it, and started to notice a change in the taste.

 

[billgharley]

Coil junk...so I've noticed this too. My Ni200 coils seem to junk up much more quickly than Kanthal. You guys/gals are experiencing that as well? And yes, with inability to dry burn, always wrapping new ones and 30g Ni200 is a real pain in the buttocks.
I have some Titanium on the way (vape mail coming). What have you found with TI and coil gunking?
Sorry to hijack the thread...

 

[jseah]

Coil junk...so I've noticed this too. My Ni200 coils seem to junk up much more quickly than Kanthal. You guys/gals are experiencing that as well? And yes, with inability to dry burn, always wrapping new ones and 30g Ni200 is a real pain in the buttocks.
I have some Titanium on the way (vape mail coming). What have you found with TI and coil gunking?
Sorry to hijack the thread...

Honestly I've used ni200, Ti, and kanthal in my drippers and they all gunk up around the same amount of time, within a day to a day and a half. This is using the same topper, same mod, and same juice. With ni200 and Ti, I need to pulse heat up the coil and scrape the coil using either a pin or a pair of ceramic tweezers, and you can never get around to clean the back or underside of the coil. And pulse heating it doesn't burn away the crusty buildup. With kanthal, I heat up the coil until it glows and you can see the crust burn away, then rinse it away with water and rewick. The coil cleaning process with kanthal takes all of maybe 5-10 seconds before it is ready to be rewicked. With TC coils, I could end up spending 10-15 minutes carefully picking and scraping at the coil.