DNA 200 Watt

[TheBloke]

The dna system continues to have the most intuitive UIs of top end advanced mods in the industry. This is an Evolv philosophy. No idea what you are talking about but multiple clicks have never been used on the dna system for anything other than things that are intended to be difficult (i.e. locking and unlocking).

• Locked mode: Five clicks to lock, five clicks to unlock
  • This one is at least pretty standard
• Stealth mode: Five clicks to lock, then hold Fire and Down for five seconds, then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with five second delay.
• Right Mode and Left Mode: Five clicks to lock, then hold Fire and Up for five seconds, then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with five second delay.
• Power Locked mode: Hold Up and Down for two seconds.
  • Total button presses: two, with two second delay. Yay, only two!
  • Actually unyay if you have atty lock and can't use this any more
    • Add one feature, have to lose another? That's much better than adding a new feature on the end of a menu!
• Max Temperature Adjust: Five clicks to lock, hold Up and Down for two seconds, scroll through the temperatures, then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with two second delay
• Disable TC: Five clicks to lock, hold Up and Down for two seconds, scroll through the temperatures upwards until you get to the max temperature, then once more for OFF; then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with two second delay + however many presses/holds necessary to get from your set temp to the top.
• Celcius/Fahrenheit switch: Five clicks to lock, hold Up and Down for two seconds, scroll through the temperatures downwards until it goes to the other temperature type; then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 12, with two second delay + however many presses/holds necessary to get from your set temp through the bottom and then to the C setting you want.

This my friend is not intuitive. It's not in the ballpark of intuitive, it ain't in the same league, hell it's not even the same sport.

Going upwards or downwards through the temps depending on whether you want to turn TC off, or whether you want to change from C/F, is a particularly good example of this.

Just try and think it through a minute. Try and let those self-defences drop, try and imagine for a moment you haven't tried to fuse your mind into your device. Imagine if on your oven, the way to switch from normal to Fan was to turn the temperature dial all the way up to 600°F and then back down to 0°F. Imagine if in your car, the way to turn your cruise control on or off was to switch back and forth from Neutral to Drive twice.

There's a reason we have menus. The current Evolv UI is not remotely intuitive. It's too many clicks, it's obscure, it tries to put too many things onto too many buttons - if you need multiple functions for a given button, if you need hold-timeouts, if you need to control something by whether you scroll up or down through a range of settings, then something's wrong.

This isn't completely Evolv's fault - vaping manufacturer's obsession with too few buttons is a big part of it. All mods could benefit from more buttons, especially the Yihi with its memories (where it's daft there's no dedicated Memory button, such that you're always in Memory mode and can only change wattage outside of memory by going into a menu.)

So everyone is at fault, but at least the majority of the rest have implemented proper menus.

The Dicodes' is a particularly good example of a planned, well-prepared menu. It has ten times more things to change than a DNA 40, but it never feels haphazard or confusing. It can be quite a few clicks, but that's because as a tube it's only one button - that will improve when they bring out a box mod. But it's a testament to their good design that it's intuitive and relatively quick to use even though it only has one button.

 

[dr g]

garbage

That is an honestly laughable post. Try not to let your bias show.

can somebody explain why sometimes dna40 temp reading getting higher gradually ?
vape getting weaker because of that. TC kicks in earlier than it should

I found out resetting the atty temporarily solves that.
firing without atty to reset board's reading is not working every time

can you reset the atty manually (n.coil up / s. down question ) on dna200 ?

You may be talking about refinement. It is automatically calibrating the temperature sensing of the mod. Once it is calibrated you need to adjust your settings to the correct calibration. Do not undo the calibration.

 

[Rossum]

At least Evolv has three buttons. There are vendors out there who still insist on having just one button for everything.

 

[dr g]

At least Evolv has three buttons. There are vendors out there who still insist on having just one button for everything.

Yeah one button is horrific, always has been. Add modern functionality and it's flat out ridiculous.

 

[Mad Scientist]

• Locked mode: Five clicks to lock, five clicks to unlock
  • This one is at least pretty standard
• Stealth mode: Five clicks to lock, then hold Fire and Down for five seconds, then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with five second delay.
• Right Mode and Left Mode: Five clicks to lock, then hold Fire and Up for five seconds, then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with five second delay.
• Power Locked mode: Hold Up and Down for two seconds.
  • Total button presses: two, with two second delay. Yay, only two!
  • Actually unyay if you have atty lock and can't use this any more
    • Add one feature, have to lose another? That's much better than adding a new feature on the end of a menu!
• Max Temperature Adjust: Five clicks to lock, hold Up and Down for two seconds, scroll through the temperatures, then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with two second delay
• Disable TC: Five clicks to lock, hold Up and Down for two seconds, scroll through the temperatures upwards until you get to the max temperature, then once more for OFF; then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 13, with two second delay + however many presses/holds necessary to get from your set temp to the top.
• Celcius/Fahrenheit switch: Five clicks to lock, hold Up and Down for two seconds, scroll through the temperatures downwards until it goes to the other temperature type; then five clicks to unlock.
  • Total button presses: 12, with two second delay + however many presses/holds necessary to get from your set temp through the bottom and then to the C setting you want.

This my friend is not intuitive. It's not in the ballpark of intuitive, it ain't in the same league, hell it's not even the same sport.

Going upwards or downwards through the temps depending on whether you want to turn TC off, or whether you want to change from C/F, is a particularly good example of this.

Just try and think it through a minute. Try and let those self-defences drop, try and imagine for a moment you haven't tried to fuse your mind into your device. Imagine if on your oven, the way to switch from normal to Fan was to turn the temperature dial all the way up to 600°F and then back down to 0°F. Imagine if in your car, the way to turn your cruise control on or off was to switch back and forth from Neutral to Drive twice.

There's a reason we have menus. The current Evolv UI is not remotely intuitive. It's too many clicks, it's obscure, it tries to put too many things onto too many buttons - if you need multiple functions for a given button, if you need hold-timeouts, if you need to control something by whether you scroll up or down through a range of settings, then something's wrong.

This isn't completely Evolv's fault - vaping manufacturer's obsession with too few buttons is a big part of it. All mods could benefit from more buttons, especially the Yihi with its memories (where it's daft there's no dedicated Memory button, such that you're always in Memory mode and can only change wattage outside of memory by going into a menu.)

So everyone is at fault, but at least the majority of the rest have implemented proper menus.

The Dicodes' is a particularly good example of a planned, well-prepared menu. It has ten times more things to change than a DNA 40, but it never feels haphazard or confusing. It can be quite a few clicks, but that's because as a tube it's only one button - that will improve when they bring out a box mod. But it's a testament to their good design that it's intuitive and relatively quick to use even though it only has one button.

I've never used a Dicodes and have no idea what its interface is like, but you have a point and also made me chuckle.

 

[TheBloke]

Try not to let your bias show.

Just gonna leave this here because it's magnificent.

 

[dr g]

Just gonna leave this here because it's magnificent.

You rag on one company for putting "too many things onto too many buttons" and turn around and praise a system that puts literally everything (10x as much by your count) on one button.

 

[Vooper]

Just gonna leave this here because it's magnificent.

I laughed hard.

 

[VapingBad]

None on the menu behaviour is nearly as egregious as when the up & down buttons do not adjust the power up or down by default. How often do you change the temp, it is liquid specific IMO or screen operation. I love that the Evolv interface is fast and simple for 98% of the time you are pressing buttons and has an easy power lock, you should always just be able to pick the thing up press a button and get instant vapour without the risk of changing your settings by pressing the wrong button.
JMO YMMV.

 

[windxrunner]

I don't understand why the DNA 40 is difficult to use, but a ridiculously complicated Provari-like menu system is better? And is being called intuitive? The DNA 40 is one of the simplest devices to operate. It's not "button twister", that comment makes me think you've never played Twister, and maybe never touched or seen a button.

 

[Pdizzle]

Just to defend yihi for a minute, you can in fact adjust wattage on the sx350j without going into the menu

 

[TheBloke]

I don't understand why the DNA 40 is difficult to use, but a ridiculously complicated Provari-like menu system is better? And is being called intuitive? The DNA 40 is one of the simplest devices to operate. It's not "button twister", that comment makes me think you've never played Twister, and maybe never touched or seen a button.

I didn't say it was difficult, as in hard to remember (though I've heard people say that) - it's unintuitive, and requires more presses and more combination of modes than it needs to. I already explained why, and why a simple menu structure would serve much better: scrolling upwards through temps to turn TC off, but downwards to change from C/F is a particular example.

I would love most complex mods to have four buttons not three, but even with three buttons there's opportunity to make things relatively simple and intuitive. And not requiring locking the mod before accessing most of the functionality. And having the ability to go in and out of TC without losing the temp setting. And not require losing one feature to add another (power lock gone for atty lock). And allow adding any number of other features at any time. Etc etc.

There's any number of good UIs around you every day. The applications on your computer, on your phone, any simple device like a car dashboard, a microwave, a radio even. Good UI works on the principle of "least surprise", of clarity. A menu is a very familiar, well understood system, which allows congruence of like facilities into a relative minimum of control actions. It can be updated at any time for any number of actions; it can be hierarchical; it can be self-teaching.

As I've already said, I don't direct this exclusively at Evolv. Yihi did implement a menu but it could have been a lot better. Dicodes did a great job with one button, but it would have been a huge lot better with two, which they could easily have fitted, even in a tube. We'll have to wait for their box mod to (hopefully) see what they do with a good menu and the right number of buttons to begin with.

No-one is doing it "great" yet. But I can point to many that are doing it better than the DNA 40.

The DNA 40 would be a better mod with a menu. That's my view, and I think the view of most who think it through (objectively.) At most you can argue it's not worse with the current system. But even that is shaky when the current system has already required the drop of one useful feature, and the inability to implement another (memory of last temperature setting when switching in and out of TC.)

And not least because, how do you propose they ever add more features with the current control system? Surely no-one would claim the current number of features is the perfect number? The DNA 40 has a whole lot of functionality that's going to be PC exclusive, immediately locking out Mac users and anyone who doesn't have or want to use computer software. Some of that at least could definitely benefit users being on-mod, not to mention other features as yet unthought of. How many different button combinations do you think can be supported by the current system? We already saw with the DNA 40 it had to lose one useful feature (settings lock) to gain atty lock. I just don't see how anyone could claim that's "good" - nor why anyone would claim menus would be worse, when they demonstrably would take no more, and often fewer presses to operate, and they already use them to great effect every day of their lives.

Please don't fall into g's fallacy of "if this is how it is now, it must be the best way." That is the enemy of progress, and is immediately shown to be false as soon as the next, better product comes out. I want every product to be as good as it possibly can be - Evolv most definitely included. We can accept shortcomings, but should never excuse them except as short-term practical compromises. We can and should always strive for perfection wherever possible.

Just to defend yihi for a minute, you can in fact adjust wattage on the sx350j without going into the menu

Outside of adjusting a pre-set memory? How? And does it require tilting it left and right?

 

[BlueridgeDog]

Based on how this thread is tanking, the chip should be out any day!

 

[Pdizzle]

Select preset then down button to change wattage. Still a pain but easier than entering the menu

 

[druckle]

Outside of adjusting a pre-set memory? How? And does it require tilting it left and right?

I think the SXM requires one of the preset memories to be used to change the power level from outside the advanced menu. I think it could be done better but for now it's one of the things I hope they improve with time.

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

Select preset then down button to change wattage. Still a pain but easier than entering the menu

Right, so you're changing the preset. That's what I meant - change the current wattage without adjusting any preset. I agree it's easier, but it also means you can't rely on what your presets are, because any time you want another wattage you end up changing the one you're on. Or you make sure you have a dedicated preset for making such changes - say, Memory 1 is for ad-hoc wattages - which is fine, but means you have to first change to Memory 1 then adjust it, which by then is probably not quicker than just going into the menu.

It's not a huge deal by any means: I'd rather have presets with this disadvantage, than no presets at all. It'd just be so much better with one more "Memory" button, which when pressed would scroll through M1 -> M5 and then Up/down only changed live watts, requiring a hold on the M button to lock the current wattage into the current menu. A bit like a radio, but with one dedicated memory button instead of having one button per memory as most radios do.

I wrote a long description of ways it could be done with one extra button here in the IPV4 thread which is mostly the same except a bit worse because it doesn't have the in-menu live-wattage change at all.

 

[suspectK]

I don't watch videos, and I don't recall it being answered here...

What settings are controlled by hardware, and what settings are only manipulated through the PC program?

 

[tehmidcap]

Sounds overly complicated, not very user friendly, and 3 batteries?

I do commend anyone with the willingness to buy a DNA200 device at launch.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I've been looking around and have not been able to find any "cable free usb" or "wireless usb" products besides this:
Amazon.com: IOGear Wireless USB Hub and Adapter Kit GUWH204KIT (Grey): Electronics

The concept seems to have become obsolete (I guess having Bluetooth in everything is now a given?). You'd think there would be millions of folks who don't want to use a cable anymore for an old fashioned usb connection but I'm not finding much which doesn't seem to make sense. Any ideas for how they do this in the new tech? I want the pc to be the host or hub and another device that rhymes with DNA 200 to be the "device."

 

[AtmizrOpin]

I'd like to see the DNA 200 link to your phone via Bluetooth and be able to adjust anything you want. Great for people without a PC.