DNA 200 Watt

[vapealone]

nope! Not in the slightest and there is absolutely no need for that level of precision in those numbers but its just what the code spits out. Also, I see no earthly reason why the shape of the TCR response curve depends on the target coil resistance at the resting/reference temperature (which is 70F in this case a bit odd since that is 21°C not 20..)

All these numbers are saying is that if you have a coil with resistance of 0.5 (say) ohms at 70F, it will be 1.63918... x higher at 400F, 2.026...x higher at 600F etc. This is the same factor whether your coil is 0.5, 0.05 or 5 (all other things being equal which they probably arent in reality. Thats why the numbers dont change regardless of what resistance you plug in!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Agree.... no matter which TC device we choose we are doing what? Controlling the temperature.... What is the advantage of controlling the temperature? Could it be to control the e-liquid to a level in which bad stuff is not being produced at high levels?

Funny but not really.... about 6 months ago I sent off about 10 e-mails to e-liquid makers asking for information on max temps for their products and etc..... not a single reply.... and about a year ago I sent e-mails to flavoring companies wanting information on chemical analysis of their products and did receive replies .... replies were the same in all cases ... "proprietary information will not be given".....

I think that the most important advantage of TC vaping is indeed the reduction/prevention of eliquid combustion and all of the merry hell that arises from overheting the stuff. Problem is, it is very diffciutl or indeed inpossible to predict the behaviour of mixtures of most liquids under these conditions. Some liquids when combined together form azeotropic mixtures that have boiling points/flash points etc that are not the same as the components. There are some empirical (I think) rules that can be used to predict behaviour but there isnt a rock solid mathematical model that is precise. As far as I know, VG and PG dont do azeotropy really and the componets behacve essentially independently. That is why if you refill your tank before it is empty a few times, it gets thicker and thicker. Why? Cos PG boils off first and VG at higher temps so you are aklways enriching for VG. What may start off as a 50:50 mix aftyer a few refills might be 70:30 for example...Throw in flavourings and thing get exponentially more comlplicated.

So if manufacturers had to provide these data, it would require a herculean analytical effort to get it all calibrated and even then it would only work for one ratio and one flavour level. All new flavours would have to be redone each time..and you know what all that means...$$$$$$$$$$

 

[TheotherSteveS]

My guess is that it is a rounding issue

By definition TFR(Ref, T) is all the same for a specific material, regardless of the magnitude of of R as TFR(Ref, T)=R(Observed Temperature)/R(Reference Temperature)
Example, Iodode Titanium, close to Gr1, TFR(20°C-200°C)=1.635 (second tab)
Means the resistance at 200°C will be 1.635 times higher than starting resistance regardless how big or low the latest might be.

That is the theory. But the practice can be different for these temperatures are average temperatures. The temperature difference along the coil can mix up things, especially in dual coil setup. Not to mention the (preferably but unfortunately not necessarily static) internal resistance of the other components of the system.

Therefore, as it is mentioned above, to calibrate/fine tune a device to a specific setup you will need proper measurements.

And for some reason I got a feeling that you will find some reliable test results here pretty soon

we concur i think?!?!? Lol! And yeah, of course it is a rounding error. In any case three significant figures would be more than enough lol but hey, its only a few extra bytes!!

 

[druckle]

I think that the most important advantage of TC vaping is indeed the reduction/prevention of eliquid combustion and all of the merry hell that arises from overheting the stuff. Problem is, it is very diffciutl or indeed inpossible to predict the behaviour of mixtures of most liquids under these conditions. Some liquids when combined together form azeotropic mixtures that have boiling points/flash points etc that are not the same as the components. There are some empirical (I think) rules that can be used to predict behaviour but there isnt a rock solid mathematical model that is precise. As far as I know, VG and PG dont do azeotropy really and the componets behacve essentially independently. That is why if you refill your tank before it is empty a few times, it gets thicker and thicker. Why? Cos PG boils off first and VG at higher temps so you are aklways enriching for VG. What may start off as a 50:50 mix aftyer a few refills might be 70:30 for example...Throw in flavourings and thing get exponentially more comlplicated.

So if manufacturers had to provide these data, it would require a herculean analytical effort to get it all calibrated and even then it would only work for one ratio and one flavour level. All new flavours would have to be redone each time..and you know what all that means...$$$$$$$$$$

True enough. The only practical solution might be for all of us to convert to Squonkers with 100% VG and remember that even that won't really solve the problem totally.....but maybe a start?

Duane

 

[vapealone]

we concur i think?!?!? Lol! And yeah, of course it is a rounding error. In any case three significant figures would be more than enough lol but hey, its only a few extra bytes!!

considering the proprietary flood of pseudo technical/scientific BS (read buzzword ) in vaping it seems that our only hope lies in threads like this

 

[soulseek]

I think the mod market is way more mature than the e-liquid market. Most e-liquid manufacturers probably have no idea what's the optimum vaping temperature for each of their liquids. And besides taste is very subjective. For example I feel that I prefer custard flavours at around 230C while others might like them warmer.

Edit: I thought you guys were looking at this from a flavour perspective. If we're talking about safety I'm sure they're even more clueless. It's possible even the companies selling flavour concentrates aren't able to provide you with such information; only their distributors.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

considering the proprietary flood of pseudo technical/scientific BS (read buzzword ) in vaping it seems that our only hope lies in threads like this

I guess we can but try to keep it real!!
One of the great things about froums like these is that, provided one can extract the signal from the noise of the BS, there is a fantastic amount of real, hardcore knowledge and experience here. From chemistry, electronics, metallurgy, engineering, programming etc etc. You know we could build a a serious TC box and a set of decent vaping standards/protocols if we put our minds to it!!!

 

[vapealone]

not to mention the boiling temp of some other ingredients
Since I am on TC it is the tip of my wicks look nasty not the middle Apparently a few of my liquids contains something that doesn't really want to evaporate on my moderate W/J/T settings

 

[TheotherSteveS]

I think the mod market is way more mature than the e-liquid market. Most e-liquid manufacturers probably have no idea what's the optimum vaping temperature for each of their liquids. And besides taste is very subjective. For example I feel that I prefer custard flavours at around 230C while others might like them warmer.

Edit: I thought you guys were looking at this from a flavour perspective. If we're talking about safety I'm sure they're even more clueless. It's possible even the companies selling flavour concentrates aren't able to provide you with such information; only their distributors.

Well flavour is a great example of what I was saying. The reason you prefer a particlar temp is because the components of the flavouring (of which there are many of course) each have a particular volatility if you like so at low temps you only experience the most volatile and the mix in the vapour will change as the tempo goes up and other components join the party. Its really cool actually but so very complex to my mind at least!! Just like wine in fact...

 

[vapealone]

......it would require a herculean analytical effort to get it all calibrated and even then it would only work for one ratio and one flavour level. All new flavours would have to be redone each time..and you know what all that means...$$$$$$$$$$

It rather means that it is impossible i think.
What would be possible to analyze and classify ingredients and develop some algorithm to approximate the result with tolerable precision. And that would cost $$$$$$$$$$

 

[TheotherSteveS]

not to mention the boiling temp of some other ingredients
Since I am on TC it is the tip of my wicks look nasty not the middle Apparently a few of my liquids contains something that doesn't really want to evaporate on my moderate W/J/T settings

lol..we are posting the same stuff in parallel..at some point we may diverge...nah...!!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

It rather means that it is impossible i think.
What would be possible to analyze and classify ingredients and develop some algorithm to approximate the result with tolerable precision. And that would cost $$$$$$$$$$

The behaviour of mixtures of liquids is big business..think cracking of crude oil for example and that is a pretty straighforward one!!

 

[druckle]

I guess we can but try to keep it real!!
One of the great things about froums like these is that, provided one can extract the signal from the noise of the BS, there is a fantastic amount of real, hardcore knowledge and experience here. From chemistry, electronics, metallurgy, engineering, programming etc etc. You know we could build a a serious TC box and a set of decent vaping standards/protocols if we put our minds to it!!!

You're right!

I think with this collection of folks..it's inevitable that we'll at least try to make a decent set of vaping protocols at some point. The challenge of the difficult/impossible is just too strong to resist.

Duane

 

[dwcraig1]

Pictures?? ........ good for you.....

I have used the software, I like seeing charge rate. 510 spring is from 3/4 ton truck, LOL. I didn't vape it yet.

 

[vapealone]

Well flavour is a great example of what I was saying. The reason you prefer a particlar temp is because the components of the flavouring (of which there are many of course) each have a particular volatility if you like so at low temps you only experience the most volatile and the mix in the vapour will change as the tempo goes up and other components join the party. Its really cool actually but so very complex to my mind at least!! Just like wine in fact...

I wish But I am not that sophisticated
For me temp is the first and I choose/mix liquid accordingly

P.S.: I have to admit that I am not a real regulated TC vaper in terms of temperature By default I tune my preferred temperature by coiling and wicking and power/joule. And I use temp control as a backup, set slightly above my preferred working temp. And I also use it for entertainment and learning : watching the temp I am comfortable on which helps me to build accordingly But it is just me and I can only do that because I got a power efficiency fetish as well so I built to get my vapor on the lowest possible W/J and lowest flux as well

 

[TheotherSteveS]

I guess non-TC vaping removes most of these 'problem' as you just blast the juice with an essentially unregulated burst of energy, burn the .... out of it and leave it at that! In that case, although the coil temp is eventually controlled by evaporative cooling, the initial burst of energy, particulalry at ultra high power will overheat and generate all sorts of garbage! TC even lets the power vapers do it a bit more safely!!!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

I have used the software, I like seeing charge rate. 510 spring is from 3/4 ton truck, LOL. I didn't vape it yet.

aww thats nice! No easy way to get hold of these in UK. I really like them!!

ps. Isnt Opus owned by Evolv Brandon or something like that??

 

[vapealone]

I guess non-TC vaping removes most of these 'problem' as you just blast the juice with an essentially unregulated burst of energy, burn the .... out of it and leave it at that! In that case, although the coil temp is eventually controlled by evaporative cooling, the initial burst of energy, particulalry at ultra high power will overheat and generate all sorts of garbage! TC even lets the power vapers do it a bit more safely!!!

True
For me it is like the Electronic Driving Aids. If you drive extremely carefully and/or skilfully you probably don't need them or not very often. But if you play NFS for real without skill it can save your life.
I think I drive and vape a bit grandpa-ish but good to know that TC have my back

 

[dwcraig1]

aww thats nice! No easy way to get hold of these in UK. I really like them!!

ps. Isnt Opus owned by Evolv Brandon or something like that??

Maybe Retird will answer that, they are for sure from the same town in Ohio.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

True
For me it is like the Electronic Driving Aids. If you drive extremely carefully and/or skilfully you probably don't need them or not very often. But if you play NFS for real without skill it can save your life.
I think I drive and vape a bit grandpa-ish but good to know that TC have my back

I am with you on that!!!