DNA 200 Watt

[BlueridgeDog]

Based on discussion with Evolv staff, the concept is that you set a max temp, then adjust wattage to control vapor level. Some simply set wattage as unlimited, and then play with temp. The intended use is to input a temp that you do not want to exceed then use wattage to control the vape. After a GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION it appears that there are as many people who want to vary temp as there are that want to vary wattage on a TC rig, so some want temp as the primary up/down feature and others want wattage as the primary. An option to change it will no doubt be forthcoming.

 

[Mactavish]

As wattage is mostly useless in TC modes, I think we'll see the user option for main screen temperature setting in the next firmware update. And why not, you can choose how long and how bright you want your screens to display? Evic VTC Mini has it right.

 

[BlueridgeDog]

As wattage is mostly useless in TC modes

That is the key to the debate, as many TC vapers use wattage as the primary to control how much vapor they want. I am not in the camp mind you, but understand why it was rolled out that way. As currently designed, the chip can set a "not to exceed temp" and they you vape with wattage.

 

[Aal_]

As wattage is mostly useless in TC modes, I think we'll see the user option for main screen temperature setting in the next firmware update. And why not, you can choose how long and how bright you want your screens to display? Evic VTC Mini has it right.

For me watts is not useless at all, if set to max it gets hot too quickly then fades away. Numbers out of my .... as example, I prefer 1 liter consistent every second for 10 secs but not 5 liters then 1 liter for 5 secs. I hope you get what I mean.

But i do agree about the need for easier change of temps.

Happy new year. First post in new year woot ...

 

[Mactavish]

Based on discussion with Evolv staff, the concept is that you set a max temp, then adjust wattage to control vapor level. Some simply set wattage as unlimited, and then play with temp. The intended use is to input a temp that you do not want to exceed then use wattage to control the vape. After a GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION it appears that there are as many people who want to vary temp as there are that want to vary wattage on a TC rig, so some want temp as the primary up/down feature and others want wattage as the primary. An option to change it will no doubt be forthcoming.

I started a thread on the Evolv forum about the topic of wattage versus temp, you don't have to join it to read it:

Temperature Proteted WARNING message confusion? - DNA 200 Early Adopters Forum

Once you hit your set temp, wattage is dropped to whatever level needed to keep it at set temp, no one can explain how wattage can then effect "vapor". Higher wattage settings can perhaps get you to temp faster, but there are settings in Escribe for preheat wattage as well. My titanium coils get to set temp almost immediately and I don't have to go above 25-35 watts. But changing the temperature does however, change my vapor production, and hence why most want the ability to swap the two settings.

 

[BlueridgeDog]

I started a thread on the Evolv forum about the topic of wattage versus temp, you don't have to join it to read it:

Temperature Proteted WARNING message confusion? - DNA 200 Early Adopters Forum

Once you hit your set temp, wattage is dropped to whatever level needed to keep it at set temp, no one can explain how wattage can then effect "vapor". Higher wattage settings can perhaps get you to temp faster, but there are settings in Escribe for preheat wattage as well. My titanium coils get to set temp almost immediately and I don't have to go above 25-35 watts. But changing the temperature does however, change my vapor production, and hence why most want the ability to swap the two settings.

agree...and it is how I vape. Some however, put the max temp at the absolute safety level, then use wattage to get the vape they want. I too want to swap the controls as my 200s are set on 200 Pre and 200 fire and I let the chip modulate.

 

[retird]

Based on discussion with Evolv staff, the concept is that you set a max temp, then adjust wattage to control vapor level. Some simply set wattage as unlimited, and then play with temp. The intended use is to input a temp that you do not want to exceed then use wattage to control the vape. After a GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION it appears that there are as many people who want to vary temp as there are that want to vary wattage on a TC rig, so some want temp as the primary up/down feature and others want wattage as the primary. An option to change it will no doubt be forthcoming.

hum.... adding this option will make those wanting it happy.... I recalled a post (had to go and find it) in the beta forum of the 200 talking about adjusting temperature that may/may not be of interest. Here is the post just for your review:

You don't want to control output with temperature (even though it works quite well)

The reason is formaldehyde and acrolein (the major breakdown products of propylene glycol and glycerine)

Just by adjusting temperature, with real tanks, at real (not scary high uncontrolled) temperatures, I can make the vapor go from zero formaldehyde and zero acrolein (below the detectable limit) to five times as much as a cigarette. Without affecting the taste.

You would be much better off, given that with a 200 we can, running at very low temperatures and just having a monstrously large coil. The steady state wattage would be similar, it would take gobs of power to heat up (but we have gobs of power) and would run with good vapor volume at, say 400F

When I say monstrously large, I mean half inch diameter, eight wraps of 22 gauge nickel monstrous.

 

[Mactavish]

It ends up being rather simple. You set the temp you want to vaporize your ejuice at, if while vaping you see "temperature protected", then you hit your target, and the device regulates the wattage-voltage to maintain that set temp. So what's the wattage you need to get to your set temp! That's where you experiment, as each different build might need a different wattage. I've done this many times. You have to monitor your devices screen. In my example for my coils, I start at 35 watts, I see the temp protected message, I lower the wattage, in 5-10F degrees, until I don't see the message, now I know I'm a bit too low in wattage to reach my desired temp, so I bump up 10 degrees, this range for me is about 25-35 watts on most of my titanium builds. Now the proof, temp set to say 470f, at 25 watts, vape a few times, then on my DNA200, Max the wattage at 200, same temp, same exact vape! Done the same thing on my VTC Mini. This is what temperature protection does, and it all makes sense. Now power, Kanthal vaping is all wattage-power based, you just have to retrain the brain for TC.

Read the linked thread I posted above in the Evolv DNA200 site, it's all covered, if your curious.

 

[cjpeltz]

I would recommend folks try out the snow wolf 75w...it does just that. You set the temp and wattage adjusts automatically. I thought I wouldn't like not having this control over wattage, but I have found it handles nickel better than the DNA 200.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[nic_fix]

problem is other boxes with tc are not the quality of name brand dna200 boxes mostly. if someone just wants to blow $100 to try it great. or just sit tight a bit and let evolve work it out in the firmware.

I also found now that I got the finest usb charger I vastly prefer usb charging. before I was going nuts with broken chargers.

there is no substitute for quality.

 

[cjpeltz]

Sorry but I think that is a very bad assumption to assume DNA200 = good quality. The chip does not make the mod. There are plenty of very bad DNA 200 devices on the market today and some very good ones. But there are also some stellar non DNA 200 devices available too, including SnowWolf. Spending over $100 on any device doesn't guarantee quality in any way. I have had great $50 mods a be really crappy $150 mods.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[BigEgo]

hum.... adding this option will make those wanting it happy.... I recalled a post (had to go and find it) in the beta forum of the 200 talking about adjusting temperature that may/may not be of interest. Here is the post just for your review:

You don't want to control output with temperature (even though it works quite well)

The reason is formaldehyde and acrolein (the major breakdown products of propylene glycol and glycerine)

Just by adjusting temperature, with real tanks, at real (not scary high uncontrolled) temperatures, I can make the vapor go from zero formaldehyde and zero acrolein (below the detectable limit) to five times as much as a cigarette. Without affecting the taste.

You would be much better off, given that with a 200 we can, running at very low temperatures and just having a monstrously large coil. The steady state wattage would be similar, it would take gobs of power to heat up (but we have gobs of power) and would run with good vapor volume at, say 400F

When I say monstrously large, I mean half inch diameter, eight wraps of 22 gauge nickel monstrous.

While I agree with your premise that nasties can form even at "normal" temps, I don't think we have good data as to what those temps actually are. I heard John (lead engineer at Evolv) say on the forums that the breakdown begins between 430-450F. Where he got those numbers, I don't know. All of the published research on ecigs that I have seen do not provide temperature data -- only voltage and ohm readings which tells us very little. I do suspect, however, this will change. I know Farsilinos is doing research on the relation between coil temps and aldehydes and I've heard other scientists say they are doing the same. In the coming years we will probably have a better idea as to what the "safe range" of temperatures are.

Remember that you can't simply use published research on pure glycerol or pure PG because that's not what most of us vape. When you have a solution of the two (along with flavoring compounds) the whole temperature equation changes. PG/VG mixes are not the same as either in pure form by itself.

I do think it is important that people understand that aldehyde formation is not a zero sum game. In other words, it's not a "either they are there or they're not" scenario. There is going to be a continuum based somewhat linearly on temperature. Just because your wick isn't totally dry doesn't mean you aren't generating a higher level of aldehydes than necessary.

 

[retird]

I would recommend folks try out the snow wolf 75w...it does just that. You set the temp and wattage adjusts automatically. I thought I wouldn't like not having this control over wattage, but I have found it handles nickel better than the DNA 200.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

How does the Snow Wolf handle nickel better than the 200? I'm curious as to how it could be better so please elaborate on how it does this. Thanks and Happy New Year to all.

 

[soulseek]

I think adjusting Wattage on a TC device is just a remnant of the past. I think it's time for Evolv to evolve.
We're talking about a device with serious horsepower that can reach the desired temperature using preheat in less than 1s. Having Wattage as a primary adjustor is useless. Temperature is the relevant factor here. We don't vape all juices at the same temperature and we vary it according to mood etc.

I've given a lot of praise to Evolv recently but this is one thing they should have fixed months ago and we've yet to even get a single comment on the matter.

 

[BigEgo]

I think adjusting Wattage on a TC device is just a remnant of the past. I think it's time for Evolv to evolve.
We're talking about a device with serious horsepower that can reach the desired temperature using preheat in less than 1s. Having Wattage as a primary adjustor is useless. Temperature is the relevant factor here. We don't vape all juices at the same temperature and we vary it according to mood etc.

I've given a lot of praise to Evolv recently but this is one thing they should have fixed months ago and we've yet to even get a single comment on the matter.

Power controls the amount of vapor and is independent of temperature. How much power you need to hit X temp depends on the coil mass. So, adjusting by power is still very useful.

However, I do think they should provide the option to switch the places (on the screen) of the temp and power setting. I see no issue with that. Make it so it can be switched in escribe and be done with it.

 

[soulseek]

Power controls the amount of vapor and is independent of temperature. How much power you need to hit X temp depends on the coil mass. So, adjusting by power is still very useful.

However, I do think they should provide the option to switch the places (on the screen) of the temp and power setting. I see no issue with that. Make it so it can be switched in escribe and be done with it.

No I disagree, unless you use a very low preheat and a very low main Wattage. With the DNA200 you should be reaching the max temperature within 0.5s or less. Hence, what controls the amount of vapour production is the Temperature and of course your airflow. If you vape ad 210C you will always get low vapour production no matter what your power setting is.

 

[retird]

I'm missing something I guess. How does one achieve the set temperature and maintain the set temperature if not by allowing the device to vary the wattage (auto adjust)? From watching the 200 in temperature mode using Device Monitor it seems to me that when the set temperature is reached the wattage adjusts down to maintain the set temperature. Raise the set temperature and again when the new set temperature is reached the wattage adjusts down.

 

[retird]

However, I do think they should provide the option to switch the places (on the screen) of the temp and power setting. I see no issue with that. Make it so it can be switched in escribe and be done with it.

Totally agree....

 

[soulseek]

I'm missing something I guess. How does one achieve the set temperature and maintain the set temperature if not by allowing the device to vary the wattage (auto adjust)? From watching the 200 in temperature mode using Device Monitor it seems to me that when the set temperature is reached the wattage adjusts down to maintain the set temperature. Raise the set temperature and again when the new set temperature is reached the wattage adjusts down.

View attachment 519352

Yes but it is the chip that adjust the wattage and not you!!! What sums up your vaping experience is the temperature (and the preheat). The rest is done by the chip. You shouldn't care if the DNA200 is at 40W or 60W or 100W. All you care about is what temperature you're vaping at and how fast you get there. If you don't understand this then you're just stuck in the past.

 

[BigEgo]

No I disagree, unless you use a very low preheat and a very low main Wattage. With the DNA200 you should be reaching the max temperature within 0.5s or less. Hence, what controls the amount of vapour production is the Temperature and of course your airflow. If you vape ad 210C you will always get low vapour production no matter what your power setting is.

If you leave your power to, say 200w, or some number that is obviously more than needed, and if you just let the device regulate the power down to maintain your temp, then sure. That works.

But, from a physics perspective, power determines vapor, not temperature.