Dna 30 D or Sony VTC5 issues

[Steaming Koala]

Hi everybody,
I'm relatively new to rebuildables and new to Dna devices but not new to electronics in general. I wanted a Dna 30d device like crazy so I bought the module and I built one. I purchased two VTC5 batteries and started using the mod with a kayfun with a regular micro coil reading at 1.3 ohms. At no time I started getting errors like "weak battery" and "check battery". Overall I ended up with two different Dna30d devices (the second one was bought pre-made) and six different VTC5 batteries and none of my batteries or mods work well. The batteries are useless anywhere between 3.5 and 3.8 volts (measured with a multimeter) because both mods restart on every hit of the fire button. I used the mods on 15.5watts and I was almost never able to run them to 30watts, except one time that I built a .5ohms resistance on my rda and my battery drained completely after 10-15 draws. Note that I use a Nitecore I2 charger for all of my batteries. The past hour now I'm using my Panasonic NCR18650B 3400 mah fully charged and already I had one "weak battery" message(1.3 ohms with 15.5 watts). Can anyone tell me if all these are normal or I should throw everything away and quit vaping (I'm vaping for four years now and after these mods I can't go back to regular ego devices).I'm beging for your help because I'm desperate.

PS.I didn't knew where to ask for help, tried to contact Evolv and got no response. Also I'm new to forum I don't know if that's the right way to post this.

Thank you all very much for your help and time.

 

[Rossum]

No, I don't think that's normal.

How are your DNAs connected to your batteries? What size wire? How long is the wire? Are the wires soldered to the batteries or are the batteries in "battery holders"?

Incidentally, the NCR18650B is rather marginal with a DNA because it's only rated 6.8A discharge and a DNA 30 can easily exceed that.

 

[vgnut]

No, I don't think that's normal.

How are your DNAs connected to your batteries? What size wire? How long is the wire? Are the wires soldered to the batteries or are the batteries in "battery holders"?

Incidentally, the NCR18650B is rather marginal with a DNA because it's only rated 6.8A discharge and a DNA 30 can easily exceed that.

I'm pretty sure I read on a spec sheet somewhere that the panasonic ncr18650b is rated for 10A draw.. Anyway, I've used it for 7-10a builds without issues now for a while.

 

[Steaming Koala]

First of all thanks for your response! On the Dna30 I made I used a Keystone single battery holder and a 0.7mm(21awg) and around 4cm long. On the Dna30 that I purchased the battery mounts on battery contacts that are glued on the inner walls of the box and it uses as it seems a solid core 0.6mm(22awg) around the same length as mine +-1cm.

 

[Steaming Koala]

The Panasonic NCR18650B are rated at 6.8amps but I'm using a 1.3ohm res with 15.5watts and my ohm's law calculator gives me a 3.59amps output so I think it's fine.Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Rossum]

The first thing I would do is to try cleaning the contacts that the batteries connect to, as well as the contacts on the batteries themselves.

I don't have any DNA30s, but I do have three DNA20s. If the DNAs restart, it's because the voltage at the DNA's battery terminals drops below the threshold at which it can operate. I'm not sure what that threshold is exactly, but I've had to go to some lengths to a couple of my 20's to do that in order to get 'em out of "stuck resistance reading" mode.

So either you've got a marginal connection between the battery and the DNA, or the batteries themselves are NFG.

 

[Steaming Koala]

The first thing I would do is to try cleaning the contacts that the batteries connect to, as well as the contacts on the batteries themselves.

I don't have any DNA30s, but I do have three DNA20s. If the DNAs restart, it's because the voltage at the DNA's battery terminals drops below the threshold at which it can operate. I'm not sure what that threshold is exactly, but I've had to go to some lengths to a couple of my 20's to do that in order to get 'em out of "stuck resistance reading" mode.

So either you've got a marginal connection between the battery and the DNA, or the batteries themselves are NFG.

Ι already did the cleaning part and nothing changed. I've red the Dna datasheet numerous times..I feel like giving exams or something I've also checked the contacts on both mods and on mine with the keystone holder are super snug.According to the datasheet the threshold is below 3.1 volts which I never managed to reach. And it also says "This is especially common at power settings above 20 watts" which I was almost never able to do. Also the batteries are brand new +-10 charges on them. Do the high amp batteries need to do some charge/discharge cycles before they break in??

 

[Rossum]

Ι already did the cleaning part and nothing changed.

I'm curious what you did, i.e. what constitutes cleaning the contacts?

According to the datasheet the threshold is below 3.1 volts which I never managed to reach.

Yeah, but that's at the board, and most likely under load as well. You can't really equate that to the no-load voltage shown by the battery after it's had a bit of rest. The only way to trouble-shoot this for real is to start taking measurements under load. I would start at the DNA's terminals and work back from there. Somewhere, there's a drop under load. This of course assumes the drop isn't on the DNA's circuit board itself.

"This is especially common at power settings above 20 watts" which I was almost never able to do.

So what happens if you back off on the power to say 10 watts? I'm not suggesting you do that most of the time, just when it's at the point of misbehaving. Oh, and what does the battery gauge on the DNA show when the DNA starts resetting?

Also the batteries are brand new +-10 charges on them. Do the high amp batteries need to do some charge/discharge cycles before they break in??

Not that I've noticed, but I only tend to run right around 10 watts on my DNAs (into KFL+/R91 tanks) from Panasonic NCR18650PFs and they last a LONG time. I can vape a KFL+v2 dry and then some on a single charge.

 

[Steaming Koala]

I'm curious what you did, i.e. what constitutes cleaning the contacts?

With a tissue I clean the contacts from dust and other particles and the batteries as well from finger prints and dust etc.

Yeah, but that's at the board, and most likely under load as well. You can't really equate that to the no-load voltage shown by the battery after it's had a bit of rest. The only way to trouble-shoot this for real is to start taking measurements under load. I would start at the DNA's terminals and work back from there. Somewhere, there's a drop under load. This of course assumes the drop isn't on the DNA's circuit board itself.

Yes you're right...I might sit and do some measurements wherever I can...

So what happens if you back off on the power to say 10 watts? I'm not suggesting you do that most of the time, just when it's at the point of misbehaving. Oh, and what does the battery gauge on the DNA show when the DNA starts resetting?

When I reduce the watts (from 15.5 down to 9 watts(with a.5 increment) because lower the resistance was too big)it keeps going kinda well for 15-20 minutes and then it starts all over again.The battery gauge is anywhere from 40% and under when it starts to restart and a few times was well over 50-70% when it did and also the gauge goes pretty often from let's say 75% to empty and when I vape again it goes back to 70% again and this happens to any percentage level.

Not that I've noticed, but I only tend to run right around 10 watts on my DNAs (into KFL+/R91 tanks) from Panasonic NCR18650PFs and they last a LONG time. I can vape a KFL+v2 dry and then some on a single charge.

With 15.5watts and 1.3ohms resistance with the VTC5s I had some times 12 hours of vaping and some times around 5-8 hours. Nothing is stable and that's what confuses me the most. I also had a few times .1 resistance reading over or under of what the resistance normally is.

PS Just drained the Panasonic battery according to the Dna gauge and my multimeter read 3.75 volts...

 

[Rossum]

With a tissue I clean the contacts from dust and other particles and the batteries as well from finger prints and dust etc.

You might try something a bit more aggressive than tissue.

With 15.5watts and 1.3ohms resistance with the VTC5s I had some times 12 hours of vaping and some times around 5-8 hours. Nothing is stable and that's what confuses me the most. I also had a few times .1 resistance reading over or under of what the resistance normally is.

Hours of vaping time is a totally meaningless unit of measure. How many ml of juice do you use in that amount of time?

The general instability that you describe really makes me think there's a bad connection somewhere.

PS Just drained the Panasonic battery according to the Dna gauge and my multimeter read 3.75 volts...

Again, what the DNA sees at its terminals under load is not the same as what a multimeter will show when put directly on the battery without a load on the battery.

 

[Steaming Koala]

You might try something a bit more aggressive than tissue.

Like what???

Hours of vaping time is a totally meaningless unit of measure. How many ml of juice do you use in that amount of time?

The general instability that you describe really makes me think there's a bad connection somewhere.

I vape 100% VG and I consumed with the Panasonic around 6ml of juice

Again, what the DNA sees at its terminals under load is not the same as what a multimeter will show when put directly on the battery without a load on the battery.

You're right again.

I was just now able to see in the tight space of the pre-made mod that I have that the negative battery contact is not welded on the Dna chip at all but I can't see where it makes connection....I'm stunned right now and really confused....

 

[Rossum]

Like what???

1000-grit sandpaper works for me. Gently.

I vape 100% VG and I consumed with the Panasonic around 6ml of juice

6ml doesn't seem too unreasonable.

I was just now able to see in the tight space of the pre-made mod that I have that the negative battery contact is not welded on the Dna chip at all but I can't see where it makes connection....I'm stunned right now and really confused....

So you're saying the negative battery lead isn't actually soldered to the DNA board? That would explain quite a lot, wouldn't it?

 

[Steaming Koala]

1000-grit sandpaper works for me. Gently.

Never thought of that....I'll give this a try in the next days

6ml doesn't seem too unreasonable.

I'm missing something here...on my evic(witch is the worst mod that I own) I was vaping on 5volts with the Panasonic a whole day and I still had some battery left for the next day

So you're saying the negative battery lead isn't actually soldered to the DNA board? That would explain quite a lot, wouldn't it?

I feel like a complete idiot right now..It's impossible to find out what he's done with the negative lead
I've already emailed the manufacturer and I can't wait to see what he'll tell me.


I have to go to sleep right now so goodnight and really there are no words to tell you how thankful I am for your help. I'll update with news about that.
I wish you the best!

 

[dice57]

Been running a dna30 futura for several months now, the dna30 needs like 13 amp continuous to operate effectively. I use VTC4's, Efest Purple 35 amp, and lg 30 amps. All work quite well, but when the batt volts drops below 3.7 volts, sometimes I do have to disconnect the bat or atomizer to get it running some more. Can drain them down to ~3.5 Volts before totally giving up.

A 10 amp batt will only power the DNA30 till about 3.9 Volts, not enough useable power. I run the futura30 at max mostly.

 

[Steaming Koala]

Been running a dna30 futura for several months now, the dna30 needs like 13 amp continuous to operate effectively. I use VTC4's, Efest Purple 35 amp, and lg 30 amps. All work quite well, but when the batt volts drops below 3.7 volts, sometimes I do have to disconnect the bat or atomizer to get it running some more. Can drain them down to ~3.5 Volts before totally giving up.

A 10 amp batt will only power the DNA30 till about 3.9 Volts, not enough useable power. I run the futura30 at max mostly.

I've been using the Sony VTC5 batteries which are 30 amp so they're fine and I manage to get them down to 3.68 with no load at all....

 

[Steaming Koala]

Again, what the DNA sees at its terminals under load is not the same as what a multimeter will show when put directly on the battery without a load on the battery.

I've just measure the VTC5 with the Dna in restarting state....The battery itself with no load was 3.68 and with load at the mod's battery contacts my multimeter was reading anywhere between 3.15 - 3.25 volts....I think that was pretty good, isn't it???

 

[Rossum]

So somewhere you've got more than 0.4V of drop between the no-load voltage at the battery and the voltage under load at the DNA's terminals. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find that drop.

Is the battery's voltage dropping that much under load? A VTC5 is supposed to have something on the order of 12-15 milliohms of internal resistance. That means it should take 25 or more amps to produce 0.4 volts of drop at the battery. But you're clearly not pulling that much! At 15 watts, you're pulling around 5 amps tops. If voltage at the battery is dropping that much under load, your battery is NFG (either defective or fake).

If the voltage drop is somewhere else, you've got a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the DNA and you need to fix it.

 

[ImThatGuy]

Uh...what charger are you using for those batteries? I'm assuming that your charger isn't set to charge to 3.7volts but upto 4.2volts, correct?

Some chargers have a manual setting of 3.7 or 4.2

 

[Steaming Koala]

So somewhere you've got more than 0.4V of drop between the no-load voltage at the battery and the voltage under load at the DNA's terminals. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find that drop.

Is the battery's voltage dropping that much under load? A VTC5 is supposed to have something on the order of 12-15 milliohms of internal resistance. That means it should take 25 or more amps to produce 0.4 volts of drop at the battery. But you're clearly not pulling that much! At 15 watts, you're pulling around 5 amps tops. If voltage at the battery is dropping that much under load, your battery is NFG (either defective or fake).

If the voltage drop is somewhere else, you've got a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the DNA and you need to fix it.

To me it seems we're getting somewhere..I'll keep searching on this issue. Do you know any way to find out if my batteries are NFG or not?? I purchased them from VaporDna.com. Any ideas of the shop?? However it had one of THE best customer service.

 

[Steaming Koala]

Uh...what charger are you using for those batteries? I'm assuming that your charger isn't set to charge to 3.7volts but upto 4.2volts, correct?

Some chargers have a manual setting of 3.7 or 4.2

I'm using a Nitecore I2, it has no charging options and it charges my batteries anywhere between 4.19 and 4.21volts (4.21 came my last 2-3 charges)

On the photo are the characteristics of the charger....does it matter if it's 3.7 or 4.2 volts?? Do you have something better to propose??