They cloned the DNA30 and the DNA40 just fine, in a matter of months, without firmware update capability on the authentics.
DNA40 vs SX350j
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They cloned the DNA30 and the DNA40 just fine, in a matter of months, without firmware update capability on the authentics.
hi
I have both.. was excited about TC when the Dna40 came, but ditched the feature and went back to kanthal due to the difficulties of building the soft Ni200 and connections issues(KF4), jumping out of TC(nasty!) during vaping..
got the mini m recently, got back to TC(rather pleasant), and believe it or not, started to tear down the kanthal and re-tried the TC for the Dna40s!
whether due to my improved coil building technics or just plain luck I dun know, but the Dna40s are all on TC now and vaping pretty well..
the mini m, like many others mentioned, being able to read/set the resistance is a very good feature.. making for a stable/smooth vaping experience. the Dna40s, while being smart and having active reading of the resistance, does create issues like unnecessary ramping up of the wattage or jumping out of TC mode when it misread the resistance too much..
I would think Evolve would do better if they were to 'tone down' the AI of the Dna40s...and adding 'dumb' features like setting the resistance(?). too many variables to achieve an ideal operation.. sometimes too smart is not smart..
the mini m is not without faults.. 1st off its too heavy for a single battery device.. build like a tank.. yeah weights like one too !
being the 2nd company to do the TC chips does have its advantages.. they do have better UI, but I suspect the chip is not as accurate as the Dna40s.. they may have 'tone down' or even use a lesser, less sensitive chip to avoid the issues plaguing TC operations.. just my opinion, I think the info displaying the Joules/Voltage/Temp is not really what's going on inside..
I m sure the mini m fans are going to flake me for ranting flaming and such, much like when I 1st mention the problems with the Dna40s jumping out of TC mode and such, and I got flake from Dna40s fans..
both tech from both companies are not ideal yet.. and I must state I own devices from both .. there is no clear advantages of one over the other.
Now the ball is in Evolves' court.. competition is good for the consumers lets hope whether it is YiHi or Evolve, their coming products will continue to get better and better..
I have both.. was excited about TC when the Dna40 came, but ditched the feature and went back to kanthal due to the difficulties of building the soft Ni200 and connections issues(KF4), jumping out of TC(nasty!) during vaping..
got the mini m recently, got back to TC(rather pleasant), and believe it or not, started to tear down the kanthal and re-tried the TC for the Dna40s!
whether due to my improved coil building technics or just plain luck I dun know, but the Dna40s are all on TC now and vaping pretty well..
the mini m, like many others mentioned, being able to read/set the resistance is a very good feature.. making for a stable/smooth vaping experience. the Dna40s, while being smart and having active reading of the resistance, does create issues like unnecessary ramping up of the wattage or jumping out of TC mode when it misread the resistance too much..
I would think Evolve would do better if they were to 'tone down' the AI of the Dna40s...and adding 'dumb' features like setting the resistance(?). too many variables to achieve an ideal operation.. sometimes too smart is not smart..
the mini m is not without faults.. 1st off its too heavy for a single battery device.. build like a tank.. yeah weights like one too !
being the 2nd company to do the TC chips does have its advantages.. they do have better UI, but I suspect the chip is not as accurate as the Dna40s.. they may have 'tone down' or even use a lesser, less sensitive chip to avoid the issues plaguing TC operations.. just my opinion, I think the info displaying the Joules/Voltage/Temp is not really what's going on inside..
I m sure the mini m fans are going to flake me for ranting flaming and such, much like when I 1st mention the problems with the Dna40s jumping out of TC mode and such, and I got flake from Dna40s fans..
both tech from both companies are not ideal yet.. and I must state I own devices from both .. there is no clear advantages of one over the other.
Now the ball is in Evolves' court.. competition is good for the consumers
lets hope whether it is YiHi or Evolve, their coming products will continue to get better and better..
Why are people still using this worn out argument that YiHi used Joules to evade Evolv's Patent. If your gonna keep bringing it up, tell us exactly which patent #, and cite some section, paragraph, sentence, diagram, whatever. This stance is baseless without evidence. The evidence I have seen (o-scope readings from both) show that YiHi didn't copy much of anything. You can't put a patent on a scientific property of metal, or the fact that applying voltage to that metal makes it get hot...
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For me discussing whether YiHi used Joules to evade Evolv's Patent should be for a different thread. It is a different topic. The talk about joules and watts is interesting. Yihi displays Joules and Evolv displays Watts. Why? Trying to understand I have read a bunch, talked to many folks, and etc. and joules is still a mystery to me. About as close to an understanding of joules as I can rationalize is that it is a way to measure energy and not a way to regulate it. Somebody please help me gain a better understanding. My rational may be way off base.
I prefer to think of Joules in a frame of mind of Hertz, not exactly the same but the time reference comes into play this way.
I've built both circuits into mods and like them both as long as I'm using an electrically stable atomizer. The SX seems a little less electrically efficient than the DNA or at least this is what I have experienced with the mods I've built so far.
I have noticed both circuits tend to loose a bit of power toward the end of the battery cycle, clues me in that it's about time to change batteries again.
I've built both circuits into mods and like them both as long as I'm using an electrically stable atomizer. The SX seems a little less electrically efficient than the DNA or at least this is what I have experienced with the mods I've built so far.
I have noticed both circuits tend to loose a bit of power toward the end of the battery cycle, clues me in that it's about time to change batteries again.
I would agree that the scope and validity of Evolve's patent application would be off-topic for this thread. The only opinions that matter one whit are those from the United States Patent and Trademark Office and a judge who may end up ruling on the matter. However, discussion of any of the technical details disclosed in Evolve's patent application, Electronic vaporizer that simulates smoking with power control US 20130104916 A1, would seem to be on-topic.
This is the patent for variable wattage that was granted to Evolv. I am pretty sure they applied for a patent for TC, but I am not able to find it at the moment. (An internet search reveals that Evolv has "several" e-cig patents pending -- therefore the variable wattage patent isn't the only one).
I was going to mention the same although the variable wattage patent has some key points in the claims about motion sensing I noticed.
If that is the patent we're going to reference when stating that the use of the term Joules is intended to evade said patent, how do we explain YiHi's blatant use of the word "Watts" to describe the power delivery method in Power mode? They weren't trying to evade anything there. In fact, they would be in clear violation of that patent. And so would every single device manufacturer who has ever used any form of variable wattage and resistance sensing to regulate power output. Innoken, ProVape, YiHi, and countless others. No need to continue with that argument from this point forward. EVERYONE is using variable wattage now, and nobody is trying to hide it, including YiHi...
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Having both I can say that both chips produce a nice vape when they work properly. I have the first release DNA40 board and did three RMA's but since getting them resolved the wonkiness as pretty much ended.
The DNA has less tolerance for an atomizer that (RDA or RTA) that isn't solid. That being said the K4 was a bust until I added the SteamTuners Kayfun V4 Spring Update, it gave me a much better connection to the base.
Side by side the I like the consistency of the SX more and for me it's just easier. I do a build, add the atty and vape. I'm also a Titanium user which works well on both devices. Some have reported the cotton scorching on the SX but so far I have had a problem dripping or in a tank but I didn't do a dry cotton scorch test. When dripping and in tank I always know when the wick is just about dry because of the vapor reduction.
And I can see how some don't like the weight and shape of the SX device. Personally I'm a fan but I like my flask too and the duel battery (even with the bad battery indicator) is preferred over the SX single 18650. And I won't buy the tube to stack.
The DNA has less tolerance for an atomizer that (RDA or RTA) that isn't solid. That being said the K4 was a bust until I added the SteamTuners Kayfun V4 Spring Update, it gave me a much better connection to the base.
Side by side the I like the consistency of the SX more and for me it's just easier. I do a build, add the atty and vape. I'm also a Titanium user which works well on both devices. Some have reported the cotton scorching on the SX but so far I have had a problem dripping or in a tank but I didn't do a dry cotton scorch test. When dripping and in tank I always know when the wick is just about dry because of the vapor reduction.
And I can see how some don't like the weight and shape of the SX device. Personally I'm a fan but I like my flask too and the duel battery (even with the bad battery indicator) is preferred over the SX single 18650. And I won't buy the tube to stack.
Glad to see there is an honest to goodness discussion here although I'm not into the semantics of everything most are. I'm enjoying the temp control emensely both on my authentic dna 40 and cloned dna 40. Plus on the issue of user upgradability would be nice to have but at the same time these companies will constantly strive to outdo the other. Their competition will constantly push the other to develop something new and unique native to their chip.
Gotta love the way vaping has progressed (you can't believe what I was vaping Sept. 1, 2010)....new and better seems like a monthly event any more....what's next from Yihi an Evolv ? I'm betting they are not thru with bringing something new.
I have two DNA40 devices, a VaporFlask 2.1, and a Protovapor XPV. I've had the Protovapor XPV since nearly day 1 of the DNA40. I am one of the lucky ones, in that I have never had one hint of an issue with any of my DNA40 devices. They work as advertised, and they work very well for me.
I have the SX Mini M, and the primary reason why I like the SX Mini more has nothing to do with temp control. I'm a computer geek. I like big flashy screens with lots of information, I like extra configuration options ... I like user upgradeability. I also love the form factor, and I love how heavy/beefy it is; this feels good in my hand.
As for comparing the two chips, I really can't. They both work as advertised in my opinion. The SX Mini may have a few extra "geeky" features, but at the end of the day, if you have them set correctly with good atomizers and connections, both produce a fantastic vape.
I personally may have a different opinion if I were one of those who went through all the RMA/glitchy issues with the DNA40. However, I'm not one of those people... I really enjoy my DNA40s. That said, the SX Mini is my primary / daily driver, but it has nothing to do with temp control.
I have the SX Mini M, and the primary reason why I like the SX Mini more has nothing to do with temp control. I'm a computer geek. I like big flashy screens with lots of information, I like extra configuration options ... I like user upgradeability. I also love the form factor, and I love how heavy/beefy it is; this feels good in my hand.
As for comparing the two chips, I really can't. They both work as advertised in my opinion. The SX Mini may have a few extra "geeky" features, but at the end of the day, if you have them set correctly with good atomizers and connections, both produce a fantastic vape.
I personally may have a different opinion if I were one of those who went through all the RMA/glitchy issues with the DNA40. However, I'm not one of those people... I really enjoy my DNA40s. That said, the SX Mini is my primary / daily driver, but it has nothing to do with temp control.
In some ways Evolve has had a much harder road to acceptance of a TL device than YiHi has. And probably the biggest difference was how the hell to handle NI200 coil material. I remember when the DNA40 was released and all the difficulties folks were having with NI200... should it be a contact coil or spaced( this debate raged for quite a while before spaced finally reached near universal acceptance), when using atty through holes insert a piece of kanthal to maintain physical stability and good connectivity of the NI200 wire (or better yet don't use the through holes and wrap around the screw and use the screw head to capture the wire), build at a much lower resistance level than most were used to or comfortable with because NI200 is not kanthal, be gentle with wicking to not deform the softer NI200 material, don't dry burn, etc. There was myriad small issues with this new material that had to be sorted before DNA40 builds began to be consistent and reliable. Just a new material that required a steep learning curve and differed dramatically from kanthal builds to be a viable and reliable vape experience.
YiHi was a direct benefactor of this knowledge and this particular wheel did not need to be reinvented by them. Other than a different resistance target (not so much different, but a little different) the hard work and education of NI200 and it's properties had already taken place. So Evolve clearly broke the trail for other tech to follow in this regard. And to my way of thinking this is a pretty big deal, and props given to Evolve for props deserved. Anyone that was trolling the boards when the DNA40 was released knows exactly what a difficult hurdle this was. But TBH, a little more involvement from Evolve would have been welcome back then.
As is clear from my previous posts, I still think user upgradeability is a core feature that sets YiHi apart at this point, but I can't help giving Evolve and it's user base a lot of credit for making the YiHi rollout as successful as it has been. Good for YiHi, but bravo for Evolve.
YiHi was a direct benefactor of this knowledge and this particular wheel did not need to be reinvented by them. Other than a different resistance target (not so much different, but a little different) the hard work and education of NI200 and it's properties had already taken place. So Evolve clearly broke the trail for other tech to follow in this regard. And to my way of thinking this is a pretty big deal, and props given to Evolve for props deserved. Anyone that was trolling the boards when the DNA40 was released knows exactly what a difficult hurdle this was. But TBH, a little more involvement from Evolve would have been welcome back then.
As is clear from my previous posts, I still think user upgradeability is a core feature that sets YiHi apart at this point, but I can't help giving Evolve and it's user base a lot of credit for making the YiHi rollout as successful as it has been. Good for YiHi, but bravo for Evolve.
I 100% agree Jazzman! Evolv has been a pioneer of this industry since the beginning, and MANY of the things we take for granted in vaping today on regulated devices was first developed by them. Not just Temp Limiting, but also Variable Wattage, dating back to the Darwin. I can appreciate their contributions, without a doubt
Patents applications generally aren't published until 18 months after they've been filed for. If Evolv filed for a patent related to temperature control, chances are they did so just prior to releasing the DNA40. That means nobody will know for sure for the better part of another year.
Regarding Chia's postulation that the SX350J is less accurate than the DNA40, I don't think the facts back that up. The simple fact that it has a wider "workable" range of resistances with Ni200, and a lower floor tells me it's at least as accurate at monitoring resistance changes as Evolv's first offering, and likely able to monitor and respond to those changes faster.
I don't expect Evolv to take this lying down though. While they have a track record of doing things they think is best for the consumer on the rollout of a product, they also (eventually) respond to consumer demand. And they have the lock on the most popular form factors, which makes it an easy sell to mod makers that are essentially married to Evolv products (Hana, VS, Vaporflask, Protovapor, etc).
If Yihi really wanted to screw up Evolv's DNA40 business, they'd come out with smaller SX350j boards with an Evolv-style stacked button layout and offer a 0.69" display option. They'd sell tons for people to retrofit in Vaporflasks, Hanas, etc.
I don't expect Evolv to take this lying down though. While they have a track record of doing things they think is best for the consumer on the rollout of a product, they also (eventually) respond to consumer demand. And they have the lock on the most popular form factors, which makes it an easy sell to mod makers that are essentially married to Evolv products (Hana, VS, Vaporflask, Protovapor, etc).
If Yihi really wanted to screw up Evolv's DNA40 business, they'd come out with smaller SX350j boards with an Evolv-style stacked button layout and offer a 0.69" display option. They'd sell tons for people to retrofit in Vaporflasks, Hanas, etc.
Just posting the ohm's ranges of both technologies and links to the specifications of both. I noted while checking the specs sheets this morning that Yihi has updated their spec sheet.
Yihi: Joules mode: 0.05 to 0.3 ohms and Power Mode: 0.15 to 3.0 ohms (legacy owners manual has different info)
Evolv: TC mode: 0.10 to 1.0 ohms and Standard Mode: 0.16 to 2.0 ohms
Links to Datasheets (specs):
temp control chip SX350J
http://www.evolvapor.com/datasheet/dna40.pdf
Yihi: Joules mode: 0.05 to 0.3 ohms and Power Mode: 0.15 to 3.0 ohms (legacy owners manual has different info)
Evolv: TC mode: 0.10 to 1.0 ohms and Standard Mode: 0.16 to 2.0 ohms
Links to Datasheets (specs):
temp control chip SX350J
http://www.evolvapor.com/datasheet/dna40.pdf
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Reading from the page you linked to, I read the Yihi Specs as Joules mode 0.05 to 0.30Ω. Am I reading in the wrong place?
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