Do I really need to worry about liquid being made in the US?

[VJH]

There are a lot of great posts on here about good flavors and suppliers, but I wonder about how much I need to worry about buying US liquids- they are more expensive and have fewer flavors, but safer/ better? If I am buying from a reputable shop is that enough does it matter if it is US?

 

[dormouse]

Just be aware that if it is 100% PG or 100 VG and has a flavor called Usa Mix then it is probably the same Dekang Chinese juice. Some companies even stick their own names and labels on them so anyplace that only sells 100% PG juices, or only 100% PG and 100% VG, it is probably the Chinese juices. And one place even seems to mix the Chinese PG and VG to make 50/50.

You can buy it. Some of the flavors suck. Some are decent. But use your own judgement. Dekang is a good company but China has little regulation. Poisonous glycolene was once sold in the past instead of glycerin to a toothpaste manufacturer in China by a glycerin company looking to make more money, and the toothpaste killed babies. Stuff like that happens more often in China than in the US. However I do use some of the Dekang flavors. I am just telling you nobody can say for sure that any particular batch of any eliquid from anywhere is safe.

One thing you do need to beware of is diacetyl which mainly Flavourart flavorings have in custardy and buttery flavors - diacetyl is a food flavoring that is not safe for vaping. So don't buy those kinds of flavors at Vaporbomb, FreedomSmokeUSA, or any vendor that offers flavors named "Hypnotic Mist" or "oRYental 4" since those are distinct Flavourart flavoring names so if they sell those two names they are probably using Flavourart flavorings.

Perfumer's apprentice may have a couple of flavorings with diacetyl - their site lists which few flavorings are not safe for vaping. I do not think any Loranns flavorings use diacetyl?

Even juices that have diacetyl have tiny amounts but some people avoid it.

 

[36tinybells]

+1 to doormouse's advice. Also, diy is not as hard as it seems- use a vender like onestopdiy.com who intentionally tries to weed out the danger zone flavorings and just my opinion, but supporting US cottage industries (mods, juice, ect) just feels better.

 

[Infernal2]

Just be aware that if it is 100% PG or 100 VG and has a flavor called Usa Mix then it is probably the same Dekang Chinese juice. Some companies even stick their own names and labels on them so anyplace that only sells 100% PG juices, or only 100% PG and 100% VG, it is probably the Chinese juices. And one place even seems to mix the Chinese PG and VG to make 50/50.

You can buy it. Some of the flavors suck. Some are decent. But use your own judgement. Dekang is a good company but China has little regulation. Poisonous glycolene was once sold in the past instead of glycerin to a toothpaste manufacturer in China by a glycerin company looking to make more money, and the toothpaste killed babies. Stuff like that happens more often in China than in the US. However I do use some of the Dekang flavors. I am just telling you nobody can say for sure that any particular batch of any eliquid from anywhere is safe.

One thing you do need to beware of is diacetyl which mainly Flavourart flavorings have in custardy and buttery flavors - diacetyl is a food flavoring that is not safe for vaping. So don't buy those kinds of flavors at Vaporbomb, FreedomSmokeUSA, or any vendor that offers flavors named "Hypnotic Mist" or "oRYental 4" since those are distinct Flavourart flavoring names so if they sell those two names they are probably using Flavourart flavorings.

Perfumer's apprentice may have a couple of flavorings with diacetyl - their site lists which few flavorings are not safe for vaping. I do not think any Loranns flavorings use diacetyl?

Great advice and no, I don't believe Lorann has diacetyl.

My opinion on buying American is I've found that while flavors seem limited, their quality when compared to the Chinese liquids far exceeds the depth test for flavor.

 

[Infernal2]

+1 to doormouse's advice. Also, diy is not as hard as it seems- use a vender like onestopdiy.com who intentionally tries to weed out the danger zone flavorings and just my opinion, but supporting US cottage industries (mods, juice, ect) just feels better.

Agreed on this as well! Speaking of Lorann's? Their newer higher quality bakery flavors are incredible. I've been vaping a DIY Honey, Maple e-liquid I made using only their products for about a week now. Loranns has really stepped up their game with these IMO.

 

[dormouse]

One downside of buying Chinese is no PG/VG blends. Most people like PG/VG blends. For new vapers especially, medium or high nicotine in 100% PG can let through so much of nicotine's skin irritation that some get sore tongue (I did), sore mouth, throat, sinuses or even lungs. And 100% VG is too thick for many methods of vaping like stuffing cartomizers and tanks/reservoir cartos. It can even be too thick for atomizers if you vape faster than it sluggishly wicks.

I like 80pg/20vg in cartomizers - Chinese juice does not offer that.

I do vape some Dekang RY4 and I use some Dekang PG juices to thin some similar flavor 50/50 juices I have to use them in cartos.

If you can get a 10ml VG bottle and a 30ml PG bottle of the same Chinese juice, you can mix those to get 75PG/25VG.

 

[Valsacar]

Also there was an issue with PEG (generally used in pre-filled cartos) that was contaminated (Chinese supply). But as others have said, Dekang is generally considered a decent company (but who supplies them...). I personally get hardware only from China and that's it, juice I mix myself or get from some US suppliers.

on the diacetyl, no conclusive evidence that it is dangerous. According to all of the studies done during the "popcorn workers lung" issue there is a certain level of diacetyl needed to cause damage. Comparing that to the (estimated) levels one could inhale from juices containing it and there is no danger. With anything, it is the level that is dangerous and not the chemical. Same goes for nicotine, caffeine, and any thing else that could enter your body in some way.

That said, it's (probably) safer to avoid it if possible, but absolutely nothing I have seen (and I've read every piece of evidence provided) has given me any cause for concern. Ran it by a friend of mine who is a chemist (PhD from the UK) and he agreed that my understanding of the reports, and the quantities (they reported as) required were far higher than anything inhaled through an e-cig juice containing it in flavoring (assuming a 100% absorption rate, which is of course not the case).

 

[Mindfield]

I will tell you this (which I've posted elsewhere): Last fall, just two months into my first foray into vaping, I started experiencing pain in my feet whenever I walked for five minutes or more at my normal (brisk) pace. It got worse over the next few weeks to the point where after I got to my destination my feet were killing me. Then the random but frequent heart palpitations started, and that freaked me right the hell out.

At the time I thought maybe it was something akin to nicotine poisoning. I didn't feel sick or dizzy or anything, but I thought maybe I was vaping too much or the liquid was too strong (at the time, 18mg). I tried ordering much lighter juice but I couldn't vape it; no throat hit = no point for me. I ended up going back to smoking for several months because I thought I just couldn't vape.

But then I ran into someone on another forum (on Fark, of all places) who was experiencing the same problem, and he had nailed the source of the problems down to cheap, bad juice from China. Cheap juice from China was the last thing I was vaping regularly, bought from a local vendor who drop shipped from China. (GreenhouseOne, but see below.) Everything just kinda clicked: IT must have been that juice, not vaping in general.

So I went and ordered some new hardware (was trying the new tanks at the time) plus some new juice from Vaperite, and just to prove the point, I ordered the strongest he had, 26mg. Long story short, that was 4 months ago and I've been vaping 24-26mg the whole time. I also ran into someone here just a week or two ago who had the exact same problems, and who had also been vaping juice from the exact same vendor I got my cheap Chinese juice from. So, despite the small sample size, I'm convinced that it was definitely the juice.

So yes. Made in the USA does make a difference. Note that this is not an indictment against all juices from China. Lots of people have been vaping various Chinese brands like Dekang for ages without issue. It seems so far to have been just this one juice (utterly generic, no manufacturer listed, no identifying markings on the bottles or labels). Still, that was more than enough to make me extremely cautious about who I get my juice from, and now I will only buy hand-made juices made in North America with locally-sourced ingredients, with the exception of well-established foreign brands people haven't had any problems with, like Dekang.

Also, please note that this is not an indictment against GreenhouseOne, either, just whomever they get their juice from. GHO have been good to me, I've ordered hardware from them without any issues at all. I'll just never order their juice again and would not recommend anyone else does, either.

Just my anecdotal $0.02.

 

[Boodle]

I buy American because it's one of the few things I can still find made in America. KBV, AVE, BWB have excellent juice (sure others do too) made in the USA. Most of the supplies we use are made in China so they get some love too.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

You could still have an allergic reaction to certain flavors without there not really being anything wrong with the juice, per se.

But most recommendations go for the U.S. vendors. The following vendors are worth checking out:

Avejuice (Alien Visions)
TastyVapor.us
GourmetVapor
BackwoodsBrew.net
VermillionRiverEJuice
MsTsBakery

 

[Tyrant]

I'm surprised we even allow certain imports from China given their lack of regulations. I can think of several times off the top of my head (baby formula / pet food) where poisons were substituted because they were cheaper. And the American vendors that buy it and resell/package it, do you think they really now what is in the liquid?

 

[wv2win]

There is no factual reason to believe that liquid from an US supplier is any better or safer than from China, who produced the first liquid available. In fact, there have been reports of people having side effects from liquid from the US as well as some from China.

Some US suppliers make their liquids in basements, garages and kitchen tables with no sanitary practices what so ever. The major Chinese suppliers have received certifications on the safety of their liquids and DeKang has had their liquids tested. Few US suppliers provide any verification of how or where they concoct their products.

Many users prefer all PG or VG liquid which is how Chinese liquid is provided. But if you prefer a blend, it's pretty easy to just mix VG and PG liquid of the same flavor to your own liking.

 

[BardicDruid]

I only order from BestEcigs or Heavens Gifts, in China. BestEcigs has their own lab and manufacturing plant, both Dekang and BestEcigs used to be pharmaceutical manufactures. They've sunk millions into making a quality product, they understand that not doing things the right way and their toast. They have chemists that do random daily checks to insure it is safe and mixed correctly, all of the bottles I've ever gotten from them have been med grade bottle. Check out their website, they have photos of their labs, and complete listings of whats in their e-liquid. What US mixers are willing to even show you photos of their operation?? I'll stick with Chinese thank you.

 

[wv2win]

I only order from BestEcigs or Heavens Gifts, in China. BestEcigs has their own lab and manufacturing plant, both Dekang and BestEcigs used to be pharmaceutical manufactures. They've sunk millions into making a quality product, they understand that not doing things the right way and their toast. They have chemists that do random daily checks to insure it is safe and mixed correctly, all of the bottles I've ever gotten from them have been med grade bottle. Check out their website, they have photos of their labs, and complete listings of whats in their e-liquid. What US mixers are willing to even show you photos of their operation?? I'll stick with Chinese thank you.

Very good points. There is much baseless BS posted on this topic.

 

[LibertyValance]

All of this is why I can't wait for US regulation of eliquids. Right now my catfood has more oversight and regulatory requirements than the stuff I am puffing down into my lungs daily.

Not saying the coming regulations will be perfect but if you think about it contaminated medicines in the US are quite rare even though the majority of over the counter pharma comes comes from India, China, etc.

Some of the posts I see on ecf are frankly frightening. People buying diy ingredients at Tractor Supply and the Like. And then you wonder about the next "made in the US" website that goes up.

 

[Nicko]

All of this is why I can't wait for US regulation of eliquids. Right now my catfood has more oversight and regulatory requirements than the stuff I am puffing down into my lungs daily.

Not saying the coming regulations will be perfect but if you think about it contaminated medicines in the US are quite rare even though the majority of over the counter pharma comes comes from India, China, etc.

Some of the posts I see on ecf are frankly frightening. People buying diy ingredients at Tractor Supply and the Like. And then you wonder about the next "made in the US" website that goes up.

I heard that about 100,000 Americans die each year from taking their medicines exactly as prescribed. Frightening stuff.

 

[SEWELLH]

This is why I like this site good information and allows you to make your own decision. No ones sell China or the USA just giving some fact as the view them. Do your research and ask a lot of questions be informed and then decide what is best for you. Happy vaping.

 

[VJH]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. This was a great learning experience for me.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

Ah well, everyone throws in their opinions and then it's up to you to separate the crap from the cream. Good luck.

 

[Raze]

Some good info here guys, thanks.. I have been hunting some good flavors and had had the same thing running around in my head a little..