Do I want to rebuild? Do I want to rebuild MTL? Do I want a Fresia? Something better? Come tell me.

[smartham]

Vaped for like 7 years, for 6.5 of them used the same 3.2v non-variable mod with 1.8ohm coils in a Kanger minitank.

It worked. I was happy. It was cheap.

It also, predictably after so much time, wore out.

So, I bought an Aegis Solo. 5-100 watts. Fancy. It came with the Cerebus subohm tank. That was fun for awhile, but I can't wrap my head around $5/coil and what feels like literally drinking the juice.

So, I wanna rebuild, I think. I want to keep it simpleish.

DTL/MTL: When I did started, there was no option. I've grown real used to MTL in the past, but I do kinda sorta like having more airflow. I think I like what's called restricted DTL. The Fresia does that. And probably more than I've ever set this Cerebus to if I feel like it, and certainly more than other MTL rebuildables, right?

I currently run the "recommended 35 watt" coils at about 30-40 watts and the airholes clsoed to about 1mm times two.

What sort of resistance and wattage are the MTL tanks running at?

Rebuilding: Is it really that complicated? Wrap some wire on a jig, screw it down? That's it? I can do that.

What the hell do I need to start? Wire gauge? Jig diameter? Wick type of stuff?

What tank: The Fresia seems to rank pretty highly, and covers teh MTL/RDTL thing, but is there anyhitng else I'm missing that also does? Budget counts, $30 is OK. $40 is...still OK. $50 seems silly and I'd be angry abotu it, but would suck it up and more than that is no. I have zero care what it looks like. Don't even bring it up, because chances are what you think is appealing I think it is ugly.

What other tanks are out there that I should look at? And, as previously mentioned, what else do I need in my box of crap to do all this?

I'm down to my last Cerebus coil, and ~180ml of juice which at this stage will run out in about... two days of nonstop subohm vvaping, I bet. I mean, seriously, how is this sustainable?

 

[Izan]

Hi Smart,
This thread has a huge amount of info about the Fresia: Damn Vape Fresia MTL/RL RTA

Have fun
I

 

[Tabac man]

There's a learning curve to rebuildables for a first timer. Wrapping a coil, installing a coil, poke some cotton through, nowt difficult about any of that. Getting everything 'just so' though so it vapes as it should, requires patience. If you are not stupid, have a desire to learn, and have patience, you will suss it out. If you don't you are stuck with drop in coils I'm afraid.

Took me about two weeks of cursing to get my first rta right. Maybe another two weeks of practice just to become familiar with the process and be able to replicate what works. I was committed though because I was scunnered (a good Scottish word meaning 'sick and tired' '...... off' etc) buying factory coils that were essentially a rip off. You should still use your drop in coils and tank while going through the learning curve.

 

[DavidOck]

Vaped for like 7 years, for 6.5 of them used the same 3.2v non-variable mod with 1.8ohm coils in a Kanger minitank.

It worked. I was happy. It was cheap.

Which makes me wonder if this https://www.fasttech.com/product/7935300-coppervape-skyline-styled-rta-rebuildable-tank might be worth your look. Great vape, easy to build, and by the use of both the "right" insert for your preference and the external air flow ring will go from snug MTL to at least restricted DL. The juice flow control will let you adjust that for whatever power levels you want, keeping in mind that the higher the power, the more juice you'll go through, as you've found out. For your mentioned budget, you could get a couple, and some spare glass, also available on FT

To get close you what you've said you like, I'd suggest 30 or 28 Kanthal A1, for starters. 6 wraps of the 30, on a mm mandrel, will give you right about 1.5 ohms, 7 wraps will give closer to your 1.8. With the Skyline, you could come really close to duplicating the sytle of vape you've mentioned. If you don't need to get "fancy" with it, yes, wrapping a simple coil is pretty easy. Lots of online calculators to help in determining how many wraps of what size (and type) wire for the final result. Key, of course, is to not have any shorted turns or shorts to the tank itself.

 

[Tabac man]

I was thinking a Ehpro True might be a good start.

 

[Baditude]

So, I bought an Aegis Solo. 5-100 watts. Fancy. It came with the Cerebus subohm tank. That was fun for awhile, but I can't wrap my head around $5/coil and what feels like literally drinking the juice.

You are aware that by being a subohm tank like the Cerberus you are going to be consuming more e-liquid than if you were using a low wattage, MTL tank? That's to be expected.

What sort of resistance and wattage are the MTL tanks running at?

Drop in coil MTL tanks:
0.8 - 1.5 ohm
8 - 14 watts

Rebuilding: Is it really that complicated? Wrap some wire on a jig, screw it down? That's it? I can do that.

There's a learning curve to rebuildables for a first timer. Wrapping a coil, installing a coil, poke some cotton through, nowt difficult about any of that. Getting everything 'just so' though so it vapes as it should, requires patience. If you are not stupid, have a desire to learn, and have patience, you will suss it out. If you don't you are stuck with drop in coils I'm afraid.

Took me about two weeks of cursing to get my first rta right. Maybe another two weeks of practice just to become familiar with the process and be able to replicate what works. I was committed though because I was scunnered (a good Scottish word meaning 'sick and tired' '...... off' etc) buying factory coils that were essentially a rip off. You should still use your drop in coils and tank while going through the learning curve.

What the hell do I need to start? Wire gauge? Jig diameter? Wick type of stuff?

You should be made aware that a RDA (rebuildable drip atomizer) is going to be much more forgiving to a beginner's mistakes than a RTA (rebuildable tank atomizer).

Tools:

• Resistance wire – kanthal, stainless steel, nickel, nichrome, etc. 28 gauge kanthal is a nice gauge to begin with.
• Flush wire cutters – wire cutters that can cut close in small spaces
• Tweezers – preferably ceramic tipped, to pinch your coils while pulsing
• Needle nosed pliers - used to pull/straighten your wire
• Scissors - to trim you cotton wick
• An ohm reader - or a mod that accurately measures coil resistance
• Small metal rods – a precision screwdriver set, or coiling tool
• Organic cotton – or whichever wicking material you prefer
• A coil jig – it can make your life a little easier than the precision screwdrivers
• A second vape – to vape on while you’re building those coils, silly

You don't need a coil jig set, but you will need at least a precision screwdriver set that has a variety of stem diameters to wrap your coils around and their stem diameters labeled on each screwdriver. You'll need a wire cutter or nail clipper to cut wire. You'll need an ohm meter to measure the resistance of your finished coil.

I would suggest either 26 or 28 gauge kanthal wire to start out. Don't try to start out fancy by trying to make a fancy exotic coil like a Clapton. Keep it simple, stupid (KISS).

Pulsing a single coil

You'll need either organic cotton balls, cellucotton (Rayon), or one of the commercially available wick materials like Cotton Bacon sold at vape shops or online vendors.



Grimm Green does a nice coil building tutorial for beginners:

 

[smartham]

I like to give big responses to anyone who gives the effort to help, but I'm gonna keep it short (this wasn't short, in the end) for right now:

Yes, I'm aware that subohm consumes more, but ......n I was not prepared for how much more. One of the things that I preferred about vaping to trad smoking is the significant cheaper upkeep once you got past that first purchase, but at this point I think I'm doing 60ml a week (chaining is a thing, i'm high stress) and that's just not something I'm comfortable with.

Tool wise, I think I should be good. I don't know how accurate the built-in meter on my Aegis is, but I have a multimeter so I'm not too worried there. If jigs are literally just a piece of round bar stock, I'm not too concerned there, either, as I can just 3d print what I need to my little heart's content, I bet.

That leaves me with raw materials, you've all been helpful on that. When you're faced with the multiwire stuff, single wire, material type, and the multitude of gauges it's nice to know that a spool or two should be good.

I guess I have to really get a feel for wattages/outputs. I still have a whole pile of my old Kanger 1.8t coils and a pair of tanks, and maybe I should just shift over to using those. I guess I sort of expected that everything in modern vaping required much more output, but in the end I'm offbase. I just wanna get back to a comfort zone so I can cruise for another 5-6 years before I have to learn a whole new library of stuff.

RDA/RTA: I'm still looking at the various hardware, keep the suggestions coming. But I'm a little confused on the nomenclature, is a RDA not the same as the classic "dripping atomizer" where I'm expected to drip before each vape? That's way too much effort for me.

I've also read RDA used to describe what, to me, sounds like the first gen tanks I remember which were bottom feed affairs where long wicks hung down into a full reservoir instead of the newer stuff where the atomizer sat at the bottom and sort of side-fed into the wicks.

I'm not against a "bottom feed" tank if that's the reality, and if it's easier. I just want the capability to adjust flow from super tight regulated stuff to more-airy-flow, but I don't need the full bore massive holed 810 thing.

As background, I used to smoke a pipe, not a cigarette, and I've actually started to prefer the easier flow, but again..we're talking probably 2-3mm total opening, not the like like 25mm wide open flow which is just silliness to me.

 

[DavidOck]

Yes, an RDA is the expected dripper. Not my style, either And many now sidestep the need to drip by using a squonker, giving the drip experience by just squeezing the bottle to push juice to the coil.

 

[Baditude]

Yes, I'm aware that subohm consumes more, but ......n I was not prepared for how much more. One of the things that I preferred about vaping to trad smoking is the significant cheaper upkeep once you got past that first purchase, but at this point I think I'm doing 60ml a week (chaining is a thing, i'm high stress) and that's just not something I'm comfortable with..

I bet its still cheaper than smoking.

RDA/RTA: I'm still looking at the various hardware, keep the suggestions coming. But I'm a little confused on the nomenclature, is a RDA not the same as the classic "dripping atomizer" where I'm expected to drip before each vape? That's way too much effort for me.

I merely advised that its easier to learn to build and wick on a RDA than a RTA atomizer. Most RTA's are very particular in how they are wicked, and this can be a focus of frustration for a beginner. A RDA is pretty simple to wick.

I've also read RDA used to describe what, to me, sounds like the first gen tanks I remember which were bottom feed affairs where long wicks hung down into a full reservoir instead of the newer stuff where the atomizer sat at the bottom and sort of side-fed into the wicks.

I'm not against a "bottom feed" tank if that's the reality, and if it's easier. I just want the capability to adjust flow from super tight regulated stuff to more-airy-flow, but I don't need the full bore massive holed 810 thing.

I think you're confusing several different types of atomizers here.

The old school 510 drip atomizers were essentually wickless cartomizers. Just a few drops of e-liquid, vape a few draws, and drip again. They are still quite useful for sampling different flavors. Considered disposable like cartos.

510 drip atomizer
​

First generation clearomizer tanks used long silica strings to bring e-liquid up to the heating coil. Tanks had to be tilted to keep the wicks wet.

top coil clearomizer
​

Genesis-style RTA (build deck above the tank) have wicks that dip into the tank. (top cap removed for pic) Similar principle to above clearomizer with the same drawbacks.

​

Bottom feed atomizers (squonkers) have a hollow pin in the RDA which is attached to the juice reservoir inside the mod. You squeeze the juice bottle, juice is fed to the wick, essentually "dripping upside down, with the convenience of a tank".

​

Simple dual coil RDA. Relatively easy to wick; wicking is more forgiving than a RTA.

​

Wicking a RTA can be quite tricky. Must use just the right amount of cotton with just the precise length to avoid flooding or dry hits. Every model may be different.

 

[Cooperant]

Great advice here!

For kit I would add a magnifier or reading glasses. Really helps you with coil placement.

As a suggestion I would say: Try spaced coils. The aspire bvc coils had it (my standard drop-in before switching to rebuildables). It's very forgiving for beginners. It needs little experience, you can get away with shakey hands and a bit of pushing and pulling while still on the rod will make it nice and even.

Ah and this is handy, but screws, drill bits and screwdrivers will work just as well: https://www.fasttech.com/products/3034/10050914/9641981-coil-father-diy-coil-winding-rod-2-pack?

 

[Baditude]

I taught myself how to rebuild a few years ago. Gives me confidence to be able to vape post vapocalypse when drop in coils may no longer be available due to restrictive FDA regulations.

For the time being, I am well stocked with the replacement coils for my particular tanks for at least 2 years. I like the convenience they provide me. Drop a new primed coil into my tank and I'm good for 2 - 4 weeks use. With a RDA or RTA, I found I had to replace the wick material once a week. You'll find that the wick degrades much faster than the coil does.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

If you are looking for an RBA that is easy to build on and would honestly be much easier than an RTA perhaps look at BF RDA's and squonking. There are many RDA's than would satisfy tight MTL to a fine RDL or even a lighter DL.

The Haku Venna, Apex or NarEA would fit your requirements. I have those and they offer excellent flavor and vape. I enjoy vaping MTL, RDL and DL. Each works perfectly with squonking and are easy to setup/build on.

Have a look...

Venna: https://www.fasttech.com/p/9595200

NarEA: https://www.fasttech.com/p/9693866

Apex: https://www.fasttech.com/p/9701999

If you like those and are interested in squonking let me know and I can point you to some deals for squonkers. There are both mech and regulated squonkers available.

If you want to go with an RTA I would suggest the Dvarw because it is easy to build on for someone starting out. They make both MTL and DL versions. Excellent flavor and vape. The tank sections range from 2-5ml.

MTL: https://www.fasttech.com/p/9651077
DL: https://www.fasttech.com/products/3042/10051660/9654669

Other options would be the Kayfun lite 2019 for MTL. Or the Kayfun 5 which is an airy MTL to DL. There are clones for those. With Kayfun's there is a bit of a learning curve and that is specifically with the wicking. Once you get it down they offer a great vape and awesome flavor. Bronze just helped to get someone who never built before up and running on their first try with the Kayfun 5 and Kayfun lite 2019.

Another option is the Tripod and like the Kayfun 5 it is designed for MTL to DL. There is a clone available for that one. The Tripod is very easy to build on and forgiving. Great flavor and vape.

I have authentic Kayfun's and Tripod's for those RTA's so I can't offer any experience on the clones. I know a couple folks here who have the Tripod clone, vape an airy MTL to DL, and are very happy with it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hawise]

I guess I have to really get a feel for wattages/outputs.

In that case, let me present you with Steam Engine:
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html

Enter a wire type, ID (inside diameter - the diameter of your screwdriver/coiling jig/whatever you're wrapping a wire around) and target resistance and it'll not only tell you how many coils you need but also a rough wattage that will suit the coil and whether or not the coil parameters are likely to work well. For example, if a coil's heat capacity is too high, the heat capacity bar will turn red. That means it'll take longer than most people prefer for the coil to heat up and cool down.

Spend a bit of time playing around with it, and you should get some idea of what you want to aim for.

 

[Hawise]

Or the Kayfun 5 which is an airy MTL to DL

I second this recommendation. If you do want to try a Kayfun 5 clone, just be sure you get the K5 and not the K5 squared (aka K52). The squared is DL, while the original K5 is an airy MTL.

There are a lot of warnings here about the learning curve, especially for wicking. They're all true. The flip side is that once you have it down, you're golden. You've got a 2 cent replacement coil in five minutes. You do have to adjust your process if you switch to a different RTA, but even that's a lot easier than learning from the beginning.

 

[Baditude]

 

[smartham]

Thank you all for your input, after a couple weeks I decided to follow through on my original hardware choice and picked up a Freesia. The biggest advantage was the fact I could go MTL to RDTL with only twisting the outside ring versus having to put inserts into it. For me, that was the biggest draw as I didn't know what I wanted, so I can experiment easier.

There was a lot of additional hardware advice on this about additional materials and some resources. I'm still a little lost on the latter, but whatever, I'll figure it out.

For what it's worth, should someone stumble on this thread in the future, rebuilding isn't too hard. Within 30 minutes of opening the package, I had my first coil wrapped and wicked and working. The bulk of that time was trying to figure out a "recommended" build, and even then in the end I just f'ing guessed at it.

Wicking is a bit of effort, but it's not as hard as people make it out to be. Really.

Thanks all!

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

Thank you all for your input, after a couple weeks I decided to follow through on my original hardware choice and picked up a Freesia. The biggest advantage was the fact I could go MTL to RDTL with only twisting the outside ring versus having to put inserts into it. For me, that was the biggest draw as I didn't know what I wanted, so I can experiment easier.

There was a lot of additional hardware advice on this about additional materials and some resources. I'm still a little lost on the latter, but whatever, I'll figure it out.

For what it's worth, should someone stumble on this thread in the future, rebuilding isn't too hard. Within 30 minutes of opening the package, I had my first coil wrapped and wicked and working. The bulk of that time was trying to figure out a "recommended" build, and even then in the end I just f'ing guessed at it.

Wicking is a bit of effort, but it's not as hard as people make it out to be. Really.

Thanks all!

You'll find a thread on the Freasia in the RTA section, jump in if you have any questions at all.
Great Choice

 

[stols001]

I just got mine, LOVE it easy build and super flexible.

There are also a lot of great other MTL atomizers out there. If you want to survive you may want to invest in a few, Often, especially from China they are super cheap: the doggy style (clone but you really can't get the original and the clones are fine, Siren V2 (that can go from restricted to almost DL IMHO) the Nature True is lovely but more restricted, those are all good backups to consider. I enjoy the puzzle of a new atomizer. Especially if it's ah, easy. (I have a fine motor tremor but I was like, SORRY not gonna let it hold me back.)

Anna

 

[sonicbomb]

Once you have your head around building yourself you will never look back.