Do Kiosks help or hurt E-cigs image in the public eye?

[Ever1ast]

Someone posted yesterday about a confrontation with an e-cig seller at a kiosk in the mall. I didn’t want to thread-jack, but it got me wondering if all of those little kiosks are scammers or are there some decent retailers hanging out in those little booths.
Why it is that these kiosks only sell the cheap stuff? Is it because it allows them the biggest markup and/or profit? I’ll admit, getting $150 for a $15 kit is pretty good money for the seller assuming they don’t run out of gullible customers. But you would think that since malls seem to be ok with the E-cig stands, that someone would consider stocking their kiosks with decent PVs. Could you imagine having booths in the malls that sold Ego, Provari, Riva, Infiniti, etc? Instead of selling people an overpriced kit that they quit using, they could be catering to repeat customers. I'm sure they'd probably gouge prices on the better quality / high end E-cigs as well, but if they'd sell people a decent product instead of crap, they'd end up developing more business.
I know, I know...that's a lot to wish for. I’m fortunate to have a local brick and mortar store; not just a fly-by-night scammer at a mall kiosk. But it would be nice if E-cig shops that carry GOOD product lines became more mainstream. Maybe if the public had more exposure to people that believe in what they’re selling, instead of a scammer looking to make a quick buck and skip town, E-cigs might gain some wide-spread acceptance as decent products. But as long as it’s the smooth talking salesman type that’s quick to take their money and run that they’re seeing at the mall, that’s the kind of people they’ll continue to associate with E-cigs.
I’m not one to typically editorialize, and I’ll be the first to admit I’m no expert on the E-cig industry as a whole. But I was curious if anyone else had wondered if suppliers/vendors like we have here on ECF could push the scammers out of their niche and take over and improve PVs reputation while they're at it. Your thoughts?

 

[jj2]

There's pros and cons. A lot of people wouldn't know about e-cig or try them without them. Then there are people who buy them and realize that they could get off analogs with a better version. Then there are people who try them, and think they are a ripoff. I've run into a few of the latter. I get mine out and take a puff and they are amazed at the vapor. I then tell them they bought a model T and were looking for a Cadillac. Then I give them a sticky label with the address to this site.

And the difference between the vendors here and vendors at Malls is the space rents.

 

[Dwindacatcher]

It would be lovely to see those kiosks selling quality gear. RIva, ego, and you'd have to sell the slimmer versions of stuff too. The basic 510, maybe the 801, volt, etc etc. A place where in a pinch you could pick up an atty or juice that isn't 30$ for 10ml. They'd get a lot more repeat customers. If I could get parts for close to online prices I'd honestly go there. Convenience would win out over waiting 2-7 days for stuff. Honestly I don't think it will happen unless a large buyer comes in and kills some competition. As in let's just say, to pick a random rich person, mark Cuban buys out liberty flights, joyes, madvapes, and tasty vapor. YOu could see him after taking over a large chunk of the market opening shops.

 

[Secti0n31]

The first e-cigs I ever saw were absolute junk at a Pilot gas station (trucker stop). Then I got redirected to all of the blu and volcano type sites, and bought a blu. It was almost an absolute waste of money except that it ended up breaking and having to be sent back to blu for repair, which caused me to have to buy an eGo passthrough. Sure, that was an additional $25 added onto the $80 I had already spent on the blu.

That's the problem though. If $80 is overpriced for a blu, than $150 is insane for an inferior product with a lesser warranty sold out of a 6x6 mall kiosk. It's inclined to make people think "Well if this $150 product is total garbage than why would this $60 ego or $40 mega 510 be any better?" and seriously discourage someone that would potentially really enjoy a quality e-cig.

I think that the mall vendors and $150 online sellers need to know that they are ruining the industry. People will not buy an ego or 510 for less money if the supermini they spent a ridiculous sum of money on sucks.

 

[XDoctor]

I think that the mall vendors and $150 online sellers need to know that they are ruining the industry. People will not buy an ego or 510 for less money if the supermini they spent a ridiculous sum of money on sucks.

But that's the way the world works. As long as they can fool the public and sell an inferior product at a premium price, they'll do it and laugh all the way to the bank. I don't hold it against them, if I could sell 510 kits for $150 each, I'd have them stacked to the ceiling.

It probably would be a better business model for them to sell quality products at a fair price. There's an old saying that says you can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

 

[SonnyCrack]

The issue with selling good equipment is it would only appeal to active vapers.. A person that is still smoking analogs would go for the one that looks like a cigarette before they'd go for a provari or even an ego 9/10 times... It's the way we all started..

 

[flexsr]

I use to be partners in a mall e cig kiosk-to play devils advocate: the rent cost us about 70 dollars a day at the time, wages were about 70 dollars a day also: so had to make 140 dollars (not even factoring cost of the product) to break even. Weekdays were very slow and often didn't sell any. In addition we introduced many customers to the product but many would say they would come back but of course would just go online and realize can get for 30 bucks. So essentially we had to "get it" while we could on customers who purchased from us. However, I do agree that a better business model may have been to sell more quality products at lower prices to get more satisfied and repeat customers. However, competing with online retailers who have no overhead or wages made it virtually impossible- just my two cents

 

[SonnyCrack]

However, competing with online retailers who have no overhead or wages made it virtually impossible- just my two cents

Exactly. +1

 

[Secti0n31]

I use to be partners in a mall e cig kiosk-to play devils advocate: the rent cost us about 70 dollars a day at the time, wages were about 70 dollars a day also: so had to make 140 dollars (not even factoring cost of the product) to break even. Weekdays were very slow and often didn't sell any. In addition we introduced many customers to the product but many would say they would come back but of course would just go online and realize can get for 30 bucks. So essentially we had to "get it" while we could on customers who purchased from us. However, I do agree that a better business model may have been to sell more quality products at lower prices to get more satisfied and repeat customers. However, competing with online retailers who have no overhead or wages made it virtually impossible- just my two cents

Believe me, I understand entirely. But wouldn't it be easier to sell 3 $60 510 510 mega or ego kits than it would be to sell even one $150 kit?

 

[Dwindacatcher]

The issue with selling good equipment is it would only appeal to active vapers.. A person that is still smoking analogs would go for the one that looks like a cigarette before they'd go for a provari or even an ego 9/10 times... It's the way we all started..

Regular 510 among many others are that size and quality, if shorter battery life.

 

[Dwindacatcher]

Believe me, I understand entirely. But wouldn't it be easier to sell 3 $60 510 510 mega or ego kits than it would be to sell even one $150 kit?

The real question is, wouldn't it have been better to sell one 60$ ego kit and get that person to be a repeat customer by selling them attys juice etc.

 

[Pur3Rush]

Helps with mass exposure to those interested. Hurts if those interested want to act immediately and not thoroughly research before departing with their cash.

 

[QBass]

Weekdays were very slow and often didn't sell any. In addition we introduced many customers to the product but many would say they would come back but of course would just go online and realize can get for 30 bucks. So essentially we had to "get it" while we could on customers who purchased from us.

If these mall kiosks had just a bit more variety and 'reasonable' prices, repeat customers could eventually make the business quite lucrative. It's all a matter of investing your money up front to reap rewards in the future rather than grabbing the quick cash from 'suckers' and getting the reputation of carpet bagging snake oil salesmen. I admit it does take a bit of self confidence along with a set of steel balls to get a successful business off the ground, and bad decisions resulting from the fear of failure can shut you down as quick as a tactical nuclear strike.

As far as having the kiosks in the malls being good or bad, I believe it is absolutely a plus. These give John Smith and family a chance to see e-cig usage as an acceptable activity within indoor public areas.

 

[Credo]

I would imagine that the reason they sell junk, is because the folks that made the junk are fronting the kiosk and providing the stock/prices/etc. It probably takes little more than signing a bond twice what the stock is actually worth to start peddling for those places, and they give you a cut, and possibly a small 'draw salary'.

The folks that start real stores selling the 'good stuff' assume much more personal risk. They often stock up with their own personal money, or go out and find partners/investors and carefully research and choose a wide variety of products.

So...when you see someone working the mall kiosk that sells junk like that...it's probably not HIS OWN MONEY funding the little shop. They probably went to a warehouse, signed a bond or two, and walked out with enough stuff to start a little booth or store.

Having said all that...I never could bring myself to shell out that much money for the kits back when I first started seeing them in malls, at flea-markets, etc. They did however let me know the things exist...and I started researching after that. It took over a year, and finally finding one under $60 with everything I needed to try it a week or two with no 'commitment' to buy more of their stuff before I'd buy in. I finally broke in and got a SmokeTip set. I haven't touched a tobacco cig/pipe/cigar since that week....so the SmokeTip was money well spent (still have and use it sometimes).

 

[MRobs23]

Sounds like a wide open niche for brick & mortar sales of quality merchandise. Now if only I had some money to invest

 

[Wil]

I think we'd be much more likely to get existing tobacco shops to stock supplies. I was in the local shop and inquired (I think I was looking for an atty or something in a pinch) and they were clueless, despite having an eGo in the display case. They had no other supplies, no juice, nothing...

When I asked the guy what he sold for juices, he told me to order cartridges from some web site he scribbled on the back of a card, but he wasn't sure if they'd work with my hardware, as everything was proprietary...

CLUELESS! AND HE SOLD THE STUFF!

I don't know how the margins compare with the tobacco products he was selling, but you'd think that if you're already in for the overhead it would be a nice additional product to become involved with...

 

[ThreePutt]

Great points all. The mall kiosk I visited two years ago is still there, so I don't think they're scam artists - just high markup artists (similar to paying $4.00 for a gallon of milk at a convenience store). It does appear that these guys specialize in low end models, and all of them look like a cigarette.

Two years ago, I heard the ads on radio (for one of those free trial offers). I searched around CVS, Walmart, etc. to see if they sold them in the tobacco area. I found the kiosk at the mall, and was interested in trying (as well as interested in stopping analogs). I plunked down nearly $300 for a starter kit, juice, and cartridges for the wife and I. We dropped them and went back to analogs after a couple of weeks, as they never hit right, the batteries were crap, etc.

Forward two years, and I find the ECF. WOW! More models and designs than I could have imagined, with cartos, tanks, drip tips, etc. So, when the nice members of ECF made some recommendations, I wrote them down and visited a local brick-and-mortar. Having that past experience with the mall junk made a world of difference! I could actually taste flavor. And what's this vapor stuff? I quickly grabbed two eGo-Ts for the wife and I (another $200 - still marked up a bit), but the analogs are now gone! There's still a whole world of PVs and accessories out there, and yes, I'll probably get to them eventually. But was the mall kiosk a benefit? Ultimately, yes. And for other customers, I'm sure it works better, and for some, not so good.

Which gets us to why we don't see better product. I've been staying up in bed, thinking about my new vaping journey, and a possible opportunity to establish a brick and mortar or mall kiosk myself. That was my first thought - I'm going to set up shop in that mall, with better and CHEAPER product, and run that crap vendor out of here. That would definitely work, as you could set up good starter kits, such as the eGo. Of course, opinions vary, and I'm sure you'd get the same harassment from PVs (Professional Vapers) for not stocking other units, mods, etc. And, you're dealing with a population that probably hasn't been informed on the various models. If they're still smoking, they'd probably go more for something that looks like a cigarette. I think most of us started that way - looks and feels like a cigarette - even the glowing "ember".

I'd also probably price them higher than you could get online, just due to the overhead and rent. Is it gouging? From one of us that can get starter kits online for $40, it may seem that. A business should be able to make a profit after expenditures. Given the overhead, it may be that these starter kits have to be priced around $100.

The last issue with the variety of products is the size limitation. The kiosk will have a singular product, as it's easy to sell to the throngs gathering around. The sales guys says "hey, it's like a cigarette, and you can use it in here, or at other places you can't smoke". The throngs take sample hits, and buy, or leave thinking about it. With multiple PVs, you'd have to work with each customer, see what their habits are, and tailor them to a device that suits their needs. As well as a little bit of convincing that they don't need something that looks like a ciggy.

Compare that to a brick-and-mortar, where they can and do sit with you. My local vendor (Vaporescence) was instrumental in fitting me into a PV that worked, and got me off the analogs. They have all kinds of PV models, accessories, and juice. I just don't think you could cram all of that into a 6x6 kiosk.

But I'm still thinking about it...

 

[midficollege]

My mall doesn't have a kiosk, but they do have a store that sells KR808D-1 kits of the Cig2O variety for well over internet cost (I paid $110, the list price was $130 and they sell for $80 online).

They also sold spare cartridges for $25/5 (I paid $20 when I ran out, online for between 10-14 for your average KR808D cartridges).

If I were limited to cig2o brand carto's, I would not have continued vaping. Based off of comparing my smoking habits (half a pack of 100s/day) to my vaping habits (use 3 cartos in 2 days where I used to use a full pack), even at $2/carto, it's not that fantastic a savings for significantly more hassle (recharging batteries, finding a place to put dead cartos, etcetcetc).

Now- if these kiosks happened to sell decent kits for a more than fair price for all parties involved (say, $75 for a KR808 and $15/5 for cartos), they could easily get some market share to help with the public image.

 

[ThreePutt]

And it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing situation. If you're a juice vendor, or DIY, take some samples to this mall kiosk. Let the sales guy and customers sample. Offer the product on consignment, where you'll give the kiosk a few extra bucks for each sale, provided he displays your product (and throws in the juice business card with your web addy !!)

I was in the liquor store the other day, buying some Everclear to clean my eGo atty, and heard a lady talking about how she needed to quit smoking and was wondering why they didn't have any models in the store. She had pulled up in the parking lot next to me, as I was hitting my PV. Wonder if she saw, or if that was just a random comment. I should have pulled the PV out of my pocket and demonstrated. Of course, there'd be no way for her to sample, but I could have directed her to ECF. My bad!

There are opportunities everywhere, regardless of business or evangelizing.

 

[WomanOfHeart]

There are a couple of mall kiosks here. I think the only good thing they do is introduce people to vaping. For the most part, they're products are outrageously priced and the employees make equally outrageous claims. They're selling regular 510 kits for around $200 per kit. When my fiance and I first started considering making the switch, we stopped at one of these kiosks. The guy was really nice, but that's the only thing we liked. We were charged $2 each to try an e-cig, then we asked him how much it would cost to get started. He quoted us $469 for two kits and 30mls of juice. There was no way that we could come up with that kind of money. He also tried to tell us that a cart was equal to a pack of cigarettes. That's a cart, mind you, not an XL carto.

Had this kiosk been selling their kits for even $70 each I think they would've had more business. I understand that they have to pay rent, salaries and other overhead costs, but overcharging for a 510 kit isn't the way to garner business. It would also help if they were honest about how the hardware works instead of leading people to believe that a single cart and battery is going to last them all day.