Does a vv/vw device emulate a mech accurately?

[stormjib]

Hi, this is a pretty elementary question, but I'd like your input. I've been vaping for a while, using regulated devices, currently a slightly modified IPV3 as well as an Istick50. I have a couple of subtanks and a doge dripper. I'm considering expanding my repertoire a little to possible include a mech mod, and for sure at least one more dripper. So what I'm wondering:

Given the resistance of a coil, if I fire a regulated device at 4.2 volts, does that give me a pretty good preview of how a mech would fire on a full charge? And 3.7 volts for once it discharges a bit? I usually vape above 4.2 volts, does that mean I will feel that mech mods are underpowered compared to my regulated devices? Sometimes with the doge, I vape at like 4.8 volts, which with my mod tells me comes out to 70 watts with a .33 coil. Would a mech mod deliver less power than this, or is there a part of the equation I'm missing? If I set the device to 4.2, even to 3.7, it's not terrible, it's just not as powerful as I am used to now. I have been experimenting a little and finding that I sometimes prefer the flavor down at 3.7, which with this coil setup shows up at around 42 watts.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong, and have just bought into the high wattage thing cause that was/is the trend? I'm confident that I understand battery safety well enough to operate a mech mod safely, and maybe I'm overthinking it but the ones I like are pretty spendy and I'd like to have some kind of preview of how they'd 'taste' if I can, before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for reading.

 

[WattWick]

There's an old thread which is still a good read to get a better understanding of what's going on.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-matter-its-all-about-wire-temp-read.html

These days people measure this effect in "heat flux". Which the Steam Engine will calculate for you.

There is this thing about diminishing returns. The thicker wires you use, the more power you need to apply simply to heat the coil to a useful temperature - while the aim truly is to heat liquids, not coils. In my mind - it's better to find some middle ground between power output and coil chunkiness than to use high power/low resistance to brute force an oversized coil into heating up. Power applied to coil does not equal power applied to heating liquids until coil is sufficiently hot. Only when the coil is hot enough will power go towards vaporizing liquids. The time it takes between button is pushed and liquids start to vaporize - is to me - wasted battery power.

 

[State O' Flux]

There is an optimal range of builds for a given wattage... and an optimal range of wattage for a given build.

With a mech, where Ohm's law dictates the wattage/amperage for voltage and resistance values... your goal is to obtain that optimal build to provide a desired combination of characteristics: net resistance, surface area, heat flux (coil radiant temperature), heat capacity (coil time-to-temperature) minimal leg power loss and minimum net coil mass (as it directly effects heat capacity).

It's not uncommon to see builds, where mechs are the power supply, that are entirely wrong (frequently too cold and highly inefficient) for the Ohm's law calculated wattage available.

With a high wattage regulated mod, even if your build is poorly designed - the most common mistake, particularly with a mech, would be too thick a wire for the net resistance - you can compensate somewhat by forcing wattage to a net resistance.

Click the "Steam Engine user guide" sigline hyperlink below. I wrote it to guide you through both the basic variables... as well as what heat flux, heat capacity and leg power loss are, and how to optimize them for your particular set of requirements.

 

[snork]

Here's a different kind of answer.
All things being equal (atomizer, wire, wick, wattage, everything), in my opinion no, a regulated mod does not replicate a mechanical experience accurately.
I may be strange. I've always preferred the way the vape changes as the battery discharges. Starts off like gangbusters, levels off for a nice vape for quite awhile, then at some point I realize it might be good to change the battery and I'm rewarded with a beautimous 4.2 volts. It requires voluntary and involuntary involvement. To me a regulated vape has always been boring.

 

[Baditude]

I may be strange. I've always preferred the way the vape changes as the battery discharges. Starts off like gangbusters, levels off for a nice vape for quite awhile, then at some point I realize it might be good to change the battery and I'm rewarded with a beautimous 4.2 volts. It requires voluntary and involuntary involvement. To me a regulated vape has always been boring.

Yeah, you're strange all right.

Given the choice, I prefer the steady and consistant vape of a regulated mod. Last puff as good as the first. With a mech it starts out good and its downhill the rest of the way as the battery drains down.

IMO, mech mods are over-rated unless you are sub-ohming. (And now we have high wattage regulated mods which can sub-ohm.) You can't overlook the safety built into a regulated mod that a mech doesn't have. Most regulated mods have built-in battery voltage and atomizer resistance meters that a mech doesn't.

Just my

 

[State O' Flux]

I may be strange. I've always preferred the way the vape changes as the battery discharges. Starts off like gangbusters, levels off for a nice vape for quite awhile, then at some point I realize it might be good to change the battery and I'm rewarded with a beautimous 4.2 volts. It requires voluntary and involuntary involvement. To me a regulated vape has always been boring.

Yeah, you're strange all right.

Given the choice, I prefer the steady and consistant vape of a regulated mod. Last puff as good as the first. With a mech it starts out good and its downhill the rest of the way as the battery drains down.

Oddly enough, I tend to agree, to some extent, with both versions of a good vape. I prefer mechs, for perhaps at least a few of the reasons appreciated by Snork... and with Bad as well - Because some days, you just don't want to be "Mr. purist"... you just want a good, consistent vape, or might want to add (or even subtract) a few more watts to the Ohm's law power value.

Neither power supply option solves all issues... and the uneducated can still screw up a perfectly good build - or visa versa - with either.

I even wrote a - slightly tongue in cheek - article on the subject. Why I still use mechs... and why I've been researching regulated devices, with at least one to land on my shopping list. ;-)

To each their own... for their own satisfaction.

 

[WattWick]

Given a reasonably efficient build, the power drop of mech mods is somewhat exaggerated. Mine will give a great vape until they don't. Then it's time to change batteries. They usually measure out at about 3.6 volt at this point. If I was to stick this battery in a regulated mod and set it to 4.2v, I doubt I'd get a whole lot of more puffs out of it. Given the same coil and the power required to boost output voltage, it would have to work harder than in a mech - bringing it (under load) close to the voltage cutoff.

My point is that the time a battery provides a good vape may not differ that much between mechs and regulated mods. Of course this varies based on specific setups.

I use mainly 18350s and 18500s. I guess someone using a battery with higher capacity will notice more of a decline and not so much a definite stop point.

 

[DoubleEwe]

I went from Mech mods to a sig 150W and I have to say that there is a big difference between the two.
The voltage drop of the mech mod is the key to the difference, maybe it is just my unique experience, but using the same coil, atomizer etc, I usually have to set my Sig to 4 Volts or below to get the same kind of vape that I got with a fresh battery on my mech mods.

Maybe it is to do with the maintenance of the mech mods, but I have barely used my mechs since getting the Sig.

 

[WattWick]

There's maintenance?! Didn't get that memo

I clean contacts on atties, 510 connectors and negative battery connector. The same is adviced for regulated mods - or all contact circuits, really.

 

[Thrasher]

Given a reasonably efficient build, the power drop of mech mods is somewhat exaggerated. Mine will give a great vape until they don't. Then it's time to change batteries. They usually measure out at about 3.6 volt at this point

+1

I get even further, into the 3.5-3.45 range and not much changes cept for amount of vapor.

Too much time is spent focusing on resistance and not things like wire gauge, amount of wire and reaction times

For a long time I didn't care for mechs ( just like bad resisted kayfuns) until I learned how to optimize my setups, after that the simplicity of just filling the tank and popping in a battery quickly grew on me.

I can't even remember what box my regulated mods are stored in anymore. And believe me I was dead set against mechs back in the day and would argue to no end about how much better regulation was.

One of the best things I discovered is unlike a regulated mod if I somehow end up in a situation unable to change batteries the vape may not be great but it doesn't just turn off like a reg mod leaving me stranded.

 

[USMCotaku]

Another thing to factor in comparing vape between a mech and a regulated device is how the regulated delivers power. A mod that uses PWM will never hit exactly the same as a mech... Higher freq. Gets close though. Now many of them are using flat dc output, and in my experience these can replicate the same experience as a mech

Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

 

[hurricanegirl100]

Like Thrasher, I used to be kind of anti-mech - they're too expensive, building coils and Ohm's law and all that looked too complicated, I just wasn't interested in 'em.

Until I got one lol...now, I love my Nemesis mods (a couple of HCigar clones) just as much as I enjoy my IPV mini (30 watt). But there does seem to be a huge difference between the two with the same .6 ohm build popped on top of either one.

With my mechs, I build a .6 ohm coil with 24g Kanthal, pop that RDA on and it's perfect vape every, single time.
This is an Excel spreadsheet I use to check my build against Ohm's law:



So, according to THIS, I would set my IPV mini at 28.02 watts for the ultimate vape. Right? Wrong! That is an uncomfortably hot, tasteless vape!

Start dropping the wattage down. 25, 22, 20, 16!, WTH??, 12.5! Now, it tastes right!

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe somebody could explain why this is?

 

[USMCotaku]

Like Thrasher, I used to be kind of anti-mech - they're too expensive, building coils and Ohm's law and all that looked too complicated, I just wasn't interested in 'em.

Until I got one lol...now, I love my Nemesis mods (a couple of HCigar clones) just as much as I enjoy my IPV mini (30 watt). But there does seem to be a huge difference between the two with the same .6 ohm build popped on top of either one.

With my mechs, I build a .6 ohm coil with 24g Kanthal, pop that RDA on and it's perfect vape every, single time.
This is an Excel spreadsheet I use to check my build against Ohm's law:

View attachment 423170

So, according to THIS, I would set my IPV mini at 28.02 watts for the ultimate vape. Right? Wrong! That is an uncomfortably hot, tasteless vape!

Start dropping the wattage down. 25, 22, 20, 16!, WTH??, 12.5! Now, it tastes right!

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe somebody could explain why this is?

My guess? The ramp up time on your ipv and many regulated mods is quicker, so you are reaching output heat faster. Many, including ipv mini I believe (seems to be on my ipv mini 2) actually start out above your set wattage for a short burst the that very reason.

 

[duc916]

Sounds like the power/voltage control accuracy blows as bad as my clone ZNA50 does, which is why I never used it. Couldn't sub-ohm with it with any accuracy at all. Try using higher ohm builds; either more wraps with that 24 ga, or smaller wire.

Got a tank meter to compare it against? They're too cheap not to have.

 

[stormjib]

Thanks for all the input, folks! I went into a local B and M and they had the Smok Magneto for sale, 60% off, so I bought one. I'm sure it's not the best of the mech mods, but I figure it's the only way to satisfy my curiosity and for a little over twenty bucks, feel that it's a good buy. I got it home, popped in a fresh efest 18650 and I'm a happy camper! I'm curious how long it will be till I see performance decline, but for now it's awesome. In a weird way it's kind of opposite of what I expected: with a .4 ohm coil on my doge atty, it's very mellow. I expected it to be like a lion, but it's not. It's fully satisfying, however. So thanks again, my vaping has taken another turn

 

[retic1959]

Thanks for all the input, folks! I went into a local B and M and they had the Smok Magneto for sale, 60% off, so I bought one. I'm sure it's not the best of the mech mods, but I figure it's the only way to satisfy my curiosity and for a little over twenty bucks, feel that it's a good buy. I got it home, popped in a fresh efest 18650 and I'm a happy camper! I'm curious how long it will be till I see performance decline, but for now it's awesome. In a weird way it's kind of opposite of what I expected: with a .4 ohm coil on my doge atty, it's very mellow. I expected it to be like a lion, but it's not. It's fully satisfying, however. So thanks again, my vaping has taken another turn

Just so you know , copper mechs tend to hit harder if you're looking for performance .

 

[USMCotaku]

Just so you know , copper mechs tend to hit harder if you're looking for performance .

Or mods with thick steel like the panzer

 

[retic1959]

Or mods with thick steel like the panzer

I have a SS 26650 Panzer that I love , it is a seriously tough , heavy mech . Gotta admit I was a bit shocked when I ran some voltage drop test on some of my mechs . The Panzer dropped .5 , not bad for a stainless mech , but my Stingray X dropped .09 and going hybrid resulted in a .03 drop , big difference in performance between the two with the same atty used on both . I still love my big Panzer , some archaeologist may find it 1000 years from now and wonder what it was used for .

 

[USMCotaku]

I have a SS 26650 Panzer that I love , it is a seriously tough , heavy mech . Gotta admit I was a bit shocked when I ran some voltage drop test on some of my mechs . The Panzer dropped .5 , not bad for a stainless mech , but my Stingray X dropped .09 and going hybrid resulted in a .03 drop , big difference in performance between the two with the same atty used on both . I still love my big Panzer , some archaeologist may find it 1000 years from now and wonder what it was used for .

Which contacts do you have in the panzer? There are upgrades that can help some. Copper is going to be better, but I've yet to see a stainless mod that works better then a panzer

 

[93gc40]

No a VV/VW does NOT emmulate a mech for one there the battery drain issue.. With every hit on a mech the amount of power drawn and produced is reduced till the battery is drained.. The hit gets weaker with every hit. With a regulated mod in theory you get the same amount of power to the coil EVERY time you press the button. Only way to match the Mech is to turn down your volts/watts a fraction of a watt/volt with every hit. On a mech you start with a charged batt at 4.2 putting out X watts and both goes down every hit based on the ohms of the coil. On a VV/VW you can you any OHM coil at any available power setting on your mod. This means you can run your 1ohm coil at any voltage available to the regulated mod, where the mech is limited to the volts contained in the ever draining battery.