Does lower nicotine content = lower flavor?

[testerjtester]

I'm hoping to get feedback from those that currently use both high and low or no-nicotine juice, but would appreciate it from anyone with experience with both... if you have both in the same flavor, is there less flavor in the lower or no-nicotine versions of the same juice?

I have the same flavor of juice from the same supplier in 30 ml bottles of both 24mg and 0mg, both ordered and arrived together, and the 0mg has almost no discernible flavor whatsoever. Maybe the very faintest hint, but that's it. No real smell at all either, and the 24mg is quite aromatic.

I'd initially thought there were problems with the atomizers I was using, but I've made the rounds, and they're fine with high-nic juice. I asked the supplier, who said that it was normal, but it just sounds odd to me, since the flavor is an additive - why wouldn't the manufacturer add extra flavor to compensate?

I like to keep vaping at night, but don't want the nicotine at that time due to sleep issues. I thought 0mg juice in my favorite flavor would be a great solution, but I'm really disappointed in the lack of flavor.

Thanks in advance...

Tim

 

[LuckySevens4U]

As ordered and not altered, no it does not.

 

[ISAWHIM]

You may be tasting "Tobacco extract", which would not be present in the 0mg version. Nicotine is odorless and tasteless. Tobacco extract contains the flavor of the other chemicals which were also extracted when they attempted to extract only the nicotine.

However...

If the person you purchased the juices from, is "Cutting", to make lower does from higher doses... the flavor will cut also. (Since they don't have more flavor to add, and they are not actually manufacturing anything, just charging you more for less.)

To "cut", correctly... you first need to know the original formula.

If it was originally 10% water, 14mg/ml nicotine, 70% PG, 20% VG...
But they only cut it with 100% VG... by a 1:1 ratio...

The new recipe is 5% water, 7mg/ml nicotine, 35% PG, 60% VG...
Thus, the new or diluted taste...

All ingredients cut in half, than the 50% volume of 100% VG added to the cut.

They would have to have added 50% of this mixture... by volume...
10% flavor, 70% PG, 20% VG...
This would yield the same taste

The true math is this...
14mg/ml, 10% flavor, 70% PG, 20% VG (10ml)
(Divide by 2)
14mg/ml, 10% flavor, 70% PG, 20% VG (5ml) {Nicotine is still 14mg/ml}
and
14mg/ml, 10% flavor, 70% PG, 20% VG (5ml) {Nicotine is still 14mg/ml}

(Add 100% VG, which is equal to each halves volume of 5ml)
7mg/ml, 5% flavor, 35% PG, {10% VG + 50% VG = 60% VG} (10ml)
and
7mg/ml, 5% flavor, 35% PG, {10% VG + 50% VG = 60% VG} (10ml)

EG, every strength I have, tastes exactly the same... but my 7mg feels like water-vapor to my body, demanding constant toking. While the 32mg I have, only takes 2-4 tokes to fill my craving. My tobacco extract has a bitter taste, and I can't stand it. (Stay away form cigarette flavors, they are flavored with the same chemicals you are trying to avoid by e-vaping. Though they are in lower concentrations. AKA: Tobacco-tea.)

 

[Walrus]

There should be no discernible difference in flavor if they are both factory produced e-liquids. If there is that much flavor loss in the lower nic juice, I'd suspect cutting at the vendor level... although they'd have to be stupid to think it would go unnoticed by someone ordering different levels of the same flavor.

 

[testerjtester]

Okay, thanks for the replies... and ISAWHIM, that's a ton of good information that I'll be filing away for future reference as I delve into cutting and mixing my own flavors.

The tobacco extract seems like it would make sense with a tobacco-flavored juice, but this is a version of RY4 - unless that's actually part of the base of the flavor, and that needs to be there to create the same final product... but then, how could it be sold as the same product?

Since it's a fairly well respected supplier, I wouldn't expect any shenanigans with cutting improperly, my thinking was along the lines of maybe getting bad or wrong stock from the manufacturer, though I don't know how often either actually happens.

But, this struck me as well - the high nic liquid is a quite dark brown/amber, and the no-nic liquid is perfectly clear.

What ingredient brings the color of juice, or can it vary? All of the DIY unflavored PG I've seen has been clear...

Sorry for all the questions, but if I'm going to call out the supplier, I want to make sure I have a pretty good idea what's going on first...

Thanks!
Tim

 

[virraszto]

I bought several flavored low juices from a reputable dealer and so far have only opened one. It doesn't have the strong smell I was expecting and it doesn't taste like the flavor it's supposed to. I mean it's really weak in the smell and taste department. I guess I should open one of the other flavored bottles to see if they are all alike ie.. flavorless.

Let me open one of the others and I'll come back to this thread.

Edit: Ok, I opened two other flavors and just smelled them. They all smell the same. Almost like smelling a brand new band-aid. If it's the plastic container I'm smelling, why does the first liquid I I tried smell like a new band-aid too? Watermelon, Strawberry and Apple.

 

[ISAWHIM]

Nicotine is yellowish in color, but the tiny levels we use, would be only a light tint of yellow.

Dark colors is tobacco extract, not pure nicotine. (VG and PG and water are all clear an colorless.)

Smelling like a band-aide, might be the odor mixture of water/VG or water/PG or water/VG/PG, and the fresh bottle. (Plastic has a unique odor, and if the bottle is sterilized, it may have a mild medicine odor, as band-aids do.)

Unless you have completely stopped smoking, and your smell is back to normal, it is hard to judge. Smokers need stronger odors. Often, these people walk around with OD levels of perfume and deodorant, or they just stink, and have no idea they stink. (Yes, Us.)

It is possible that they mixed the flavors at full strength, and than cut them after. (Reducing the flavoring.)

It could also be a precaution, so you don't take in too many unknown contents into your lungs. You would not inhale an entire cup-cake, which would have the same level of flavoring. Perhaps being a light odor, in those reputable brands, is how they are staying reputable. (As opposed to the others, who are dumping tons of flavor, causing breathing issues, throat burn, clogged and damaged atomizers, etc...)

Just don't try to vape a band-aide.

 

[testerjtester]

I bought several flavored low juices from a reputable dealer and so far have only opened one. It doesn't have the strong smell I was expecting and it doesn't taste like the flavor it's supposed to. I mean it's really weak in the smell and taste department.

Sorry to hear you're in the same boat, but also glad to see that it's not just me...

It is possible that they mixed the flavors at full strength, and than cut them after. (Reducing the flavoring.)

If that were the case, would that be considered shady at all? Or just a kind of standard practice?

It could also be a precaution, so you don't take in too many unknown contents into your lungs. You would not inhale an entire cup-cake, which would have the same level of flavoring. Perhaps being a light odor, in those reputable brands, is how they are staying reputable. (As opposed to the others, who are dumping tons of flavor, causing breathing issues, throat burn, clogged and damaged atomizers, etc...)

I don't know, this would still feel like misrepresentation to me. At least, it seems like a reasonable expectation that different versions of the same flavor of juice would taste and smell the same, and if that's not the case, I'd expect it to be noted somewhere pretty prominently.

In other words, I pretty much feel like I got ripped off for $20.

 

[kender]

I had Kona flavored in 18mg and the flavor was very strong and I ordered more in 24mg and it did have more nicotine but the flavor was very week.
I think that different batches could go ether way

 

[Walrus]

I bought several flavored low juices from a reputable dealer and so far have only opened one. It doesn't have the strong smell I was expecting and it doesn't taste like the flavor it's supposed to. I mean it's really weak in the smell and taste department. I guess I should open one of the other flavored bottles to see if they are all alike ie.. flavorless.

Let me open one of the others and I'll come back to this thread.

Edit: Ok, I opened two other flavors and just smelled them. They all smell the same. Almost like smelling a brand new band-aid. If it's the plastic container I'm smelling, why does the first liquid I I tried smell like a new band-aid too? Watermelon, Strawberry and Apple.

I'm not going to mention names here, but I believe I know who you ordered from. As far as being a 'reputable' dealer, their reputation is historically pretty bad. That vendor (if it's who I think it is) has admitted in threads to mixing their juices with Lorann's... so you in effect bought DIY liquid without being informed it was so. This could account for the lack of standardization, as well as lack of flavor/taste. If you want confirmation of the vendor, PM me.

 

[SpartanWarrior]

On my Zero camel i have flavor but i get no throat hit and the vapor is poor as well but when i tried low or med liquid it was great.