Does vaping cause phlegm?

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ACM

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Ok, I have to say something. I've been using e cigs exclusively for about 7 months now. The only side affect I've experienced is having dry throat (from using liquids strong in PG, but of course chugging water helps). Then again, I smoked 1/2 pack a day for about 8 years, and never really noticed side affects, just knew they were'a come'n if I didn't quit. This is of course why I started vaping. Everything I read and heard boasted the safety of e cigs, and after reading this thread I'm terrified.

Its a little difficult to draw any real conclusion because most of the people posting problems either already have asthma, COPD, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, or were 2 pack a day for 30 year smokers. I would think a little respiratory issues here and there come with the territory.

The point is this. The reason for vaping is the same for us all...... its suppose to be safe, well safe-ish, but I keep reading a list a varying side affects people seem to be experiencing. Add that to the fact that we are the pioneers of this new product. For all we know we may as well be using lead based paint, or working with asbestos. Not to mention the fact that almost nothing is free of consequence. If its a little phlem or dry throat, it would be so worth it, but there could be neurological, reproductive, (or who knows what) problems that aren't yet uncovered. Its getting to the point now where every time I take a draw from my PV I get the same guilty "you idiot don't you know this could be killing you" thoughts I got when smoking. I'm not sure how safe this is anymore, and I don't want to be one of those people with respiratory illness saying "how could I not have seen this happening."

Would I not be crazy just to stop it all together right this second?

Your concerns are valid, to be sure. I have often commented on my concerns that vaping, being an untested activity, is potentially every bit as dangerous as smoking, although possibly in different ways. There have been a lot of posts, for example, on the use of the chemical diactyl in the manufacture of e-juice. Diactyl has been known, in large, inhaled quantities, to lead to an irreversible, fatal lung disorder known as "popcorn lung", because diactyl is used in the butter flavoring found in microwave popcorn.

My feeling on the issue is that I believe vaping to be safer than smoking, if not entirely safe. I am fairly comfortable in that belief, but I still try to limit my vaping more than I cut back on my smoking. I have been known to chain vape from time-to-time, but mostly I reserve it for times when I am seriously craving a smoke. Fortunately, those times are becoming increasingly rare the longer I stay tobacco-free.

Although we are all now aware that vaping is not proven for smoking cessation (per the FDA), I have a supply of juice that ranges from 24mg nicotine all the way down to 0mg, and I have a plan to "step down" every three months or so (or when my supply of higher nicotine juice runs out, whichever comes first). I hope, if all goes as plans, to be 0mg entirely by summer. Then, I should be able to stop vaping altogether.

For many, vaping is a long-term alternative to smoking. For me, it's a means to an end. I don't really think 2 or 3 years of vaping will lead to as much damage as my 30 years of smoking may have. I am fortunate, so far, to not be suffering from asthma, COPD, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, or any other serious smoking complication, so for me, vaping could very well be a lifesaver and not just a different kind of poison.

Only time will tell, I suppose.
 

kpax

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Ok, I have to say something. I've been using e cigs exclusively for about 7 months now. The only side affect I've experienced is having dry throat (from using liquids strong in PG, but of course chugging water helps). Then again, I smoked 1/2 pack a day for about 8 years, and never really noticed side affects, just knew they were'a come'n if I didn't quit. This is of course why I started vaping. Everything I read and heard boasted the safety of e cigs, and after reading this thread I'm terrified.

Its a little difficult to draw any real conclusion because most of the people posting problems either already have asthma, COPD, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, or were 2 pack a day for 30 year smokers. I would think a little respiratory issues here and there come with the territory.

The point is this. The reason for vaping is the same for us all...... its suppose to be safe, well safe-ish, but I keep reading a list a varying side affects people seem to be experiencing. Add that to the fact that we are the pioneers of this new product. For all we know we may as well be using lead based paint, or working with asbestos. Not to mention the fact that almost nothing is free of consequence. If its a little phlem or dry throat, it would be so worth it, but there could be neurological, reproductive, (or who knows what) problems that aren't yet uncovered. Its getting to the point now where every time I take a draw from my PV I get the same guilty "you idiot don't you know this could be killing you" thoughts I got when smoking. I'm not sure how safe this is anymore, and I don't want to be one of those people with respiratory illness saying "how could I not have seen this happening."

Would I not be crazy just to stop it all together right this second?[/QUOTE
]

Ok, you have just verbalized my worst fears. To address your first quote; I am a lot older than you (44 yrs old) but have had no upper respiratory chronic problems in my life until starting vaping; only had 2 sinus infections and one case of strep throat in 24 years of smoking.
I went from feeling great when I first started vaping in Sept to feeling like crap. At least you feel ok based on your post, but it is totally sane to question this stuff. I don't want to see all of us meeting up one day on a Dateline special they may be doing 10 years from now for a condition called "Vaper's Lung". Who knows? People who want to laugh at such a suggestion are living in a fool's paradise. I have come to the conclusion that I don't really know what I am doing and am very PO'd at myself about it.
 
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SimpleSins

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I feel pretty much the same as you, Kpax, especially after I started finding out what some of the stuff was in the juices. We all come on this forum and curse the tobacco industry because they poisoned us with their 4,000 chemicals, but then turn around and act like we don't have a right to be concerned about making the same mistake again. You've seen what happens if you mention safety concerns such as happened with diacetyl. Ecigs have only been around here for three years and the flavorings didn't really start exploding until a year or so ago. It took that longer than that for the popcorn workers to show the effects and that was at large quantities, so your ten year Dateline episode is not inconceivable- and I also doubt that the ecig industry has the pockets to start paying out claims, although I suspect that many of them don't really have long-term plans despite the big game they may talk.

They like to say that ecig doesn't have the carcinogens that cigarettes do. Chemotherapy, as unpleasant as it may be, and surgery can treat cancer- you get BOOP or some of the other lung diseases, there is no treatment, unless you consider living on a respirator for the rest of your life treatment. And since the only thing we know about some of the flavoring agents is that they are suspected of causing some pretty bad stuff, it's not too much of a leap to suspect the others may be equally as bad.
 

rothenbj

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Guys, if you're so concerned about all the things you seem concerned with, just stop. You're going to drive yourselves crazy. I'll continue to vape and, if something develops later, it was my choice to do what I did. I certainly took that attitude with my 43 years of smoking. After trying to quit dozens of times with one method or other, I just decided to forget about it. Then I stumbled on PVs and now I no longer smoke.

I also no longer use my PV very much. When I reduced my consumption from about 50 smokes a day to 6 with my PV and still couldn't quit, I found Swedish snus, tried it and found it gave me what I needed not to want a smoke. I only wish I had known about it a quarter century ago. People vaping lots of liquid should be concerned since there is no track record, but the amount I'm vaping now doesn't bother my in the least. Besides, something eventually is going to kill me and in most likelihood, like almost everyone else, something in our environment helped that along. It's life.
 

SimpleSins

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Guys, if you're so concerned about all the things you seem concerned with, just stop. You're going to drive yourselves crazy. I'll continue to vape and, if something develops later, it was my choice to do what I did. I certainly took that attitude with my 43 years of smoking. After trying to quit dozens of times with one method or other, I just decided to forget about it. Then I stumbled on PVs and now I no longer smoke.

I also no longer use my PV very much. When I reduced my consumption from about 50 smokes a day to 6 with my PV and still couldn't quit, I found Swedish snus, tried it and found it gave me what I needed not to want a smoke. I only wish I had known about it a quarter century ago. People vaping lots of liquid should be concerned since there is no track record, but the amount I'm vaping now doesn't bother my in the least. Besides, something eventually is going to kill me and in most likelihood, like almost everyone else, something in our environment helped that along. It's life.

I do agree with you that we each have to make the choice, much like we did with smoking. However, we smoked in spite of knowing the risks. So this should be the place where we can discuss the possible risks of an ecig and unless that knowledge is out there, using an ecig is essentially the same game of Russian roulette just with a different caliber bullet.

The stand that "something is eventually going to kill me" is not really a valid justification for ignoring it. We used it for umpteen years as our rationale for continuing to smoke. We could take the same attitude toward vaping, but at that point it seems to invalidate the "safer" title, and as an alternative to cigarettes becomes more like cigar rather than snus.
 

rothenbj

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I do agree with you that we each have to make the choice, much like we did with smoking. However, we smoked in spite of knowing the risks. So this should be the place where we can discuss the possible risks of an ecig and unless that knowledge is out there, using an ecig is essentially the same game of Russian roulette just with a different caliber bullet.

The stand that "something is eventually going to kill me" is not really a valid justification for ignoring it. We used it for umpteen years as our rationale for continuing to smoke. We could take the same attitude toward vaping, but at that point it seems to invalidate the "safer" title, and as an alternative to cigarettes becomes more like cigar rather than snus.

You seem to think I was referring to the choices between smoking/vaping/other tobacco products. That wasn't the message I was trying to convey. We all know seat belts are safer than not using them yet some chose not to and some die because they did. Eating junk food causes health issues, but junk food gets eaten. Motorcycles are more dangerous than riding a car with a seat belt on, but still people ride cycles. The list is endless- coffee, alcohol, fireplace smoke, diesel fumes, etc.

It's good that potential risk is identified and changes are made to improve safety, however my point is that there is risk in almost everything we do day to day. I find it interesting that the government is so concerned with the health risks of vaping while at the same time adding fire suppressants to cigarette paper to reduce what is a relatively low fire risk. 46 million people smoke and no testing was done to determine long term health aspects of this requirement.

One of the reasons I even considered vaping was the coughing and wheezing that started when FSC cigs were required in PA. I feel the paper was causing it since I started buying cigs in VA (second home) and the symptoms went away until they also required the new paper.
 

rothenbj

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What is snuss? I keep hearing about it. Isn't it just dip? chew? tobacco? Is it in some way safer? does it still cause oral cancer? I'm interested.

Swedish snus is a finally ground tobacco sold in Sweden for some 200 years. They've constantly worked on reducing tsns over the years and had many studies done on it. Most of the experts quote 98-99% safer than cigs. The only disease that doubled in never smokers was Pancreatic cancer from something like 4 in 100k to 8 in 100k while smoking caused 12 in 100k. The one caveat on that study was that many of the snus users were at one time cigarette smokers, I understand.

There's a sub forum on ECF, Smokeless tobacco known affectionately as the other side of the tracks or, the dark side.

Camel and Marlboro have products out there known as SNUS, but they are sweet and untested where Ss has a salty taste and are proven winners. It's a spitless smokeless product that comes in portions (teabag like packs) or los where you need to pack it and either build your own pouch or lip it raw. I never tried los but love portions. Solved my need for smokes totally.

The only drag is the tobacco nazis have made it more difficult to get with the PACT act. Cost of shipping makes it important to order big supplies to keep the cost down and it cut back on the number of products available. You may be able to get General brands at local tobacco shops if you check.
 

Caddyman

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i love me some snus, camel will do in a pinch but the swedish stuff (ordered from northerner.com) is gooooood. skoal also makes a snus called skoal pouches i hear they sell them at walmart, have yet to check though.

snus is generally cheap, even the swedish stuff is no more then $4 a tin, just the shipping that gets you. even usa made snus from northerner is like $10 at least for shipping, sucks cause i live fairly close to their PA warehouse.
 

rothenbj

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Caddyman, the secret is quantity and sales. Once you know what you like, and I've found I like most, you just put in a big order. My last order was something like thirty cans with free shipping and some buy five get one free. Anyway, with no smokeless tax in PA I came in right around $3 a can and I use 4-5 portion a day so a can lasts about five days. That sure beats the $15 a day I was spending on smokes.

Another site to check, Snus Bargain - Cheap Snus Deals Through Collective Buyer Power They have deals there which seem to make sense though I'm so stocked right now I haven't tried them yet. I keep my supply in my freezer, some say refrig. and others just keep it in a cool place. I have cans that are 10 months old and they stay pretty consistent.
 

ACM

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I never tried Snus, and now that I am analog-free I don't know that I want to try another tobacco product, regardless of its potential safety. However, I suppose if I take a trip by airplane I might pick some up. I would hate to have my Ali'i confiscated by security, and I doubt I'd be able to effectively stealth vape in an airliner bathroom. I'd check my Ali'i in my luggage and carry on a tin of Snus.

The one thing that appeals to me about them is that there's no spitting. Years ago I tried chewing tobacco (Red Man, Copenhagen, Skoal, etc.) and while I kind of liked them all, I hated having to spit and I hated that sensation whenever some of the juice dripped into my throat. Snus don't have that problem.
 

kpax

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SimpleSins;

Yes, this has been bothering me for quite a while and I am glad more members are talking about it. I saw your posts about weaning down to zero flavorings. Based on some bad experiences I have had and lack of real knowledge we have to go on I personally feel that would be wise. Of course that is every members personal decision but to err on the side of caution should never be criticized by anyone. How else did we find ourselves at this board?

In just the few short months since I joined in Sept, Diacytel was a contentious debate which ended by being discontinued by the last major flavor manufacturer who used it. They were erring on the side of caution too. To stay on topic with this thread if members want to read others experiences and cut back or even discontinue vaping based on personal reavulation that should be understood and talked about in (hopefully) a non confrontational way.

On a more serious note; ECF may not be a place where I can share experiences of "happily ever after vaping" but I hope to learn from other members who came here with the same transistional hopes as me. I always said if someone discovers a cancer free cigarette - sign me up.... (sigh).... E Cigs hasn't worked for me....but even if it hasn't worked out I can at least try to find direction in others struggles to cope with my own addiction.
 

kpax

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Guys, if you're so concerned about all the things you seem concerned with, just stop. You're going to drive yourselves crazy. I'll continue to vape and, if something develops later, it was my choice to do what I did. I certainly took that attitude with my 43 years of smoking. After trying to quit dozens of times with one method or other, I just decided to forget about it. Then I stumbled on PVs and now I no longer smoke.

I also no longer use my PV very much. When I reduced my consumption from about 50 smokes a day to 6 with my PV and still couldn't quit, I found Swedish snus, tried it and found it gave me what I needed not to want a smoke. I only wish I had known about it a quarter century ago. People vaping lots of liquid should be concerned since there is no track record, but the amount I'm vaping now doesn't bother my in the least. Besides, something eventually is going to kill me and in most likelihood, like almost everyone else, something in our environment helped that along. It's life.

Rothenbj; believe me I see the sense in what you are saying; it IS driving me crazy and considering I am on round 2 of giving Ecigs a chance I am giving it up. One thing I would like to point out is that if it weren't for people sharing these experiences; me having time to reflect on it, etc; I couldn't get to that point.

I get the hint of it's "no big deal, I am taking a chance...what's your problem?" I don't have a problem. I am just trying to act sensibly. I have a friend who works as a living with venomous deadly snakes every day. He doesn't care....BUT....he also keeps antivenom handy or he wouldn't do it.

My point is this. I don't have any antivenom with ecigs. I am having mystery symptoms that I have to post on a message board to get help with. I feel like I am doing this totally without a net. Even my snake friend smokes but won't try a PV - lol - his choice.

It IS very important at this stage of the game for all of us to be comparing notes. You said in another post that you smoked for 40 years but started having coughing problems when Fire Safe Paper came out. I smoked for 24 years and started having the phlegm, coughing only this year myself. Based on 24 years of this habit I figured it was catching up with me and and I needed to quit. That's how I got here.

BUT I have read many posts like yours....it's influencing my opinion....This FSP really need to be evaluated. Dr's and Big Tobacco Co's aren't going to admit this.....I believe real life posters much more.....Also, I know it's unusual but I didn't have problems before. I can back this up with documented medical fact as I had a medical work up and lung XRay YESTERDAY and was told I have the normal lungs of a nonsmoker. I was thinking really???? based on what I was TOLD I should be half dead from analogs now.....I hope you see where I am going with this....I never had problems with analogs I ONLY quit for prevention and what "could" happen. Flip side; myself and a significant, maybe not majority, but significant number of people are going through hell with Ecigs. If people don't have a problem with tobacco horror stories, why ours? Just saying.
 
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rothenbj

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kpax, I was in no way trying to be flippant with my comment, just being honest. Sometimes my directness will appear differently.

I really hadn't spent much time in the healthy forum until recently, but I've read more about health aspects since by decision to look at Swed snus. I just posted a response to someone that was told she had a serious COPD issue which now, after vaping, has miraculously improved to age appropriate function. From what I understand that shouldn't happen with COPD.

That being said, it is hard to be sure of anything related to the zealot movement today. I know if I was experiencing possible adverse reactions, I'd have been here a long time ago asking questions and potentially heading in a different direction. One thing some people don't seem to understand is that quitting smoking WILL create some issues in itself. I found one govt report, CDC from 2006 if I remember correctly, where ex-smokers were three times more likely to get lung cancer than smokers. However, you need to think about it a bit. A number of smokers start having issues, get scared and quit trying to get rid of symptoms (maybe us, who knows), that would effect the numbers. A bigger factor is the definition of an ex-smoker. More than 99 lifetime cigarettes puts that check mark on your chart.

The estimate is that there are a bit over 20% smokers today and about the same percent of ex-smokers. That makes a little less than 60% never smokers based on the established head count. However, how many of that group lie or don't realize what the epidemiologists consider an ex. Now some individual gets a "smokers" disease and the doc questions them and they say "No I'm not a smoker". Now the doc asks a little more direct, "You mean you never had a cigarette?" The patient says "Well when I was a kid I tried it but it wasn't for me." More questions and, lets face it, you're only talking five packs. A cig here and there will get you classified very quickly. Does this happen? I don't know but in my generation I can assure you that the number of smokers/ex's were way higher than 42%. I didn't start until I was 19 and I'd say 70-80% smoked over 99 cigarettes.

My last point is, with people thinking every change in their health is vaping related is unrealistic for the same reason every change in a smokers health is not cigarette related. I've seen some of the same stuff in here that you have. People get belligerent toward each other. People like to believe what they believe is correct and I know I'm right about THAT.

GOODNIGHT
 

CoughingBad

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TropicalBob, hello there, any update, conclusion on the research result?

I have this exact phlegm problem, at the back of the throat, it is driving me nuts. Sometimes it is so bad that honestly I dont know if the cough is really better than what i had when i was smoking. It hurts when i tried so hard to cough it out, but sometimes it is so stubborn it just is stucked there.....grrrrr.........
 

redcat1948

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To Coughing Bad...I have not read this entire thread but your post reminded me of something I went through even before I switched to e-cigs. It's a feeling that something is stuck in your throat and you cough trying to get it out? There is a thread here about "tonsil stones" -- try searching for it. If you take a mirror and look at your throat you might see small white things at various places. These tiny white things cause the feeling that you need to cough but can't cough anything up. My doctors did some tests, nothing turned out positive, so after months of coughing I tried acidophilus capsules which you can find in any drugstore in the vitamin/herb section. Or you can eat yogurt which has the "good bacteria" in it. You can go in and lift them out with a popsicle stick but they will re-occur unless you change your body chemistry.
 
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