Don't forget about Watts Law

[VNeil]

18.2 with no accounting for board inefficiency, right? If you assume 10%, then it's just over 20.

Ya got me

I would not go for 100% performance, just like I don't drive my car at 140mph. In this case, he was using 20A batteries, and the manufacturer recommends 25A batteries. Are there reliable 25A batteries, or is a three cell mod pushing 175w just a bad idea in general?

Due to the lack of good failure data I think your question is more a matter of philosophy than science. I think actually running at 175W is bordering on an extreme sport. Well, really I think anything over 100W is an extreme sport. In an extreme sport, the participants are not looking for 100% safety or anything near it. They spend a good part of their time rationalizing the risks they take. I actually have some experience with that. The difference is that I at least knew I was participating in extreme sports, but today's cloud chasers pushing well past 100W don't acknowledge it.

If you look at it as an extreme sport then the questions change dramatically, as well as the risk assessment.

These are purely my personal opinions. If someone thinks 200W is mainstream, best of luck to him/her.

 

[sparkky1]

@sparkky1 Doesn't the resistance of the coil determine the pulse width
at any single set wattage?
Mike

I have one from john @ Evolv but I'm not going to post it, you could / should email him, they are in the midst of a whole "new" battery management system with TI.

 

[sparkky1]

Ya got me


Due to the lack of good failure data I think your question is more a matter of philosophy than science. I think actually running at 175W is bordering on an extreme sport. Well, really I think anything over 100W is an extreme sport. In an extreme sport, the participants are not looking for 100% safety or anything near it. They spend a good part of their time rationalizing the risks they take. I actually have some experience with that. The difference is that I at least knew I was participating in extreme sports, but today's cloud chasers pushing well past 100W don't acknowledge it.

If you look at it as an extreme sport then the questions change dramatically, as well as the risk assessment.

These are purely my personal opinions. If someone thinks 200W is mainstream, best of luck to him/her.

"If" he used "one" cell that was charged different from the others it could happen, was he in TC mode ? without updating the PCB, in which the yihi is a programmable board / up-gradable but still this is "not" an evolv "assignable" with a built in fuse, 175w with a "negotiable" 20a power source for three hours is
asinine ..................................
This might be a better (safer) alternative Amazon.com: Eliminator Lighting Fog Machines EF-400 Fog Machine: Musical Instruments

 

[crxess]

I wonder how many times in those few hours he checked HIS batteries, if at all?
They even incorporate a Meter to report voltage - if one bothers to look

Sorry, but if you want to practice Extreme - Safety is on you to Verify your Equipment.

Does anyone find it odd Funny Car engines are Rebuilt every run or two and heads off inspection every run?

 

[Lessifer]

I wonder how many times in those few hours he checked HIS batteries, if at all?
They even incorporate a Meter to report voltage - if one bothers to look

Sorry, but if you want to practice Extreme - Safety is on you to Verify your Equipment.

Does anyone find it odd Funny Car engines are Rebuilt every run or two and heads off inspection every run?

Oh, I'm firmly in the camp of "you are responsible for your own safety."

I do have to kind of wonder though, if your mod can only run 200w with specific batteries, and only down to a certain voltage, that might be good info to list somewhere.

I don't know, when it comes to mechs, I think the consumer needs to educate himself as much as possible. People tend to regard regulated mods as safe, and feel they don't need to educate themselves.

 

[sparkky1]

Oh, I'm firmly in the camp of "you are responsible for your own safety."

I do have to kind of wonder though, if your mod can only run 200w with specific batteries, and only down to a certain voltage, that might be good info to list somewhere.

I don't know, when it comes to mechs, I think the consumer needs to educate himself as much as possible. People tend to regard regulated mods as safe, and feel they don't need to educate themselves.

Reuleaux RX200 - Wismec Electronics Co.,Ltd

 

[Lessifer]

Reuleaux RX200 - Wismec Electronics Co.,Ltd

Yes, I've seen that page, it's where I got the specs to begin with.

There is "Cell type: Three 18650 cells(discharging current should be above 25A )" and then an example of 3 sony vtc4's in use.

I always see posts of people talking about mech mods and how they either shouldn't be sold anymore, or should include info sheets teaching all sorts of nonsense, and how B&M's shouldn't sell them without making sure the buyer knows battery safety, etc. which is, of course, ridiculous.

The other thing that is usually said is that people should just use regulated mods and they won't have to worry about all of that.

ETA: I also don't see anything on that page about the importance of using married sets of batteries.

 

[crxess]

Yes, I've seen that page, it's where I got the specs to begin with.

There is "Cell type: Three 18650 cells(discharging current should be above 25A )" and then an example of 3 sony vtc4's in use.

I always see posts of people talking about mech mods and how they either shouldn't be sold anymore, or should include info sheets teaching all sorts of nonsense, and how B&M's shouldn't sell them without making sure the buyer knows battery safety, etc. which is, of course, ridiculous.

The other thing that is usually said is that people should just use regulated mods and they won't have to worry about all of that.

ETA: I also don't see anything on that page about the importance of using married sets of batteries.

Still boils down to human error and Battery abuse. I read Mod, but understand Batteries Fail and Mods suffer the consequence.
If a manufacturer says 25 or higher and a person uses 3 20a batteries instead.....that is customer abuse. No two ways about it.
If a person beats down their batteries repeatedly showing off their skills and one Fails early - that is customer abuse.
Mech or Regulated, people need to take responsibility.

 

[Lessifer]

Still boils down to human error and Battery abuse. I read Mod, but understand Batteries Fail and Mods suffer the consequence.
If a manufacturer says 25 or higher and a person uses 3 20a batteries instead.....that is customer abuse. No two ways about it.
If a person beats down their batteries repeatedly showing off their skills and one Fails early - that is customer abuse.
Mech or Regulated, people need to take responsibility.

Exactly.

That's why I appreciate this thread. It's taught me something I didn't know about regulated mods, and I think it's something that MANY people do not know about regulated mods. People aren't getting the info they need because they assume that regulated=safe.

So many times I have seen posts like "That's why I use regulated mods, so I don't have to know about ohms, amps, cdr, batteries, etc."

 

[Layzee Vaper]

Exactly.

That's why I appreciate this thread. It's taught me something I didn't know about regulated mods, and I think it's something that MANY people do not know about regulated mods. People aren't getting the info they need because they assume that regulated=safe.

So many times I have seen posts like "That's why I use regulated mods, so I don't have to know about ohms, amps, cdr, batteries, etc."

There does seem to be a general view that regulated = safe. A couple of years ago I would have agreed, most mods were less than 40W, the ones that were above that were much more expensive. Because of the price many newer vapours would have been put off at least until they had done some research. The cost for high power stuff has dropped to a point where this is no longer the case.

I was in a B&M store a few days ago, they were busy trying to sell a 200W box mod to a young adult and his mother. The guy already had a 40W mod but was not getting enough vapour. I laughed, and said if they were not getting enough out of a 40W mod then they were doing something wrong, I suggested looking at the build. The sales guy said that these days most people "need" more than 40W. There was no mention of battery safety, keeping married sets, checking them for damage on a regular basis, nothing. He made the sale.

While I agree people need to do some research for themselves the vast majority of people don't have an instinctive knowledge of battery safety, they don't equate the batteries we use with danger. They don't see the cells as any more dangerous than an AA cell. In my view its not on to expect people from all walks of life to be able to manipulate ohms law, power laws and set there own safety margin in order to remain safe. Essentially these are being sold as a consumer item, and because they are regulated safe. People really should not have to find this information for themselves.

The margin for error has been eroded as the power of these mods has increased. A higher power requirement will always increase the risk, multiple batteries will increase the risk with out effective monitoring. Some people will be happy to live life on the edge and push things to the limit. I have no problem with that, if they choose to accept the risk its there choice. Problem is a great many folk do not really realise just how close to the edge they are. Regulated = Safe. Really?

 

[beckdg]

Something is missing from that story. Like he used two freshly charged cells and one that was at 2.6V then proceeded to vape for a few hours which drained the dead cell to -.1V. That make cell go boom.

.1v does not make cell go boom.

Matter of fact .1v represents nearly no potential energy to make cell do anything.

Though demanding 20 amps or so from a cell @ 2.5V may be a serious problem.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Still boils down to human error and Battery abuse. I read Mod, but understand Batteries Fail and Mods suffer the consequence.
If a manufacturer says 25 or higher and a person uses 3 20a batteries instead.....that is customer abuse. No two ways about it.
If a person beats down their batteries repeatedly showing off their skills and one Fails early - that is customer abuse.
Mech or Regulated, people need to take responsibility.

At the same time folks come here and are told "if you never intend to go above X power rating, Y list of batteries will work fine"...



Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Exactly.

That's why I appreciate this thread. It's taught me something I didn't know about regulated mods, and I think it's something that MANY people do not know about regulated mods. People aren't getting the info they need because they assume that regulated=safe.

So many times I have seen posts like "That's why I use regulated mods, so I don't have to know about ohms, amps, cdr, batteries, etc."

And...

Really they don't.

They just need to know what batteries are safe and to keep the voltage in all installed cells very, VERY closely matched.

Tapatyped

 

[Boden]

.1v does not make cell go boom.

Matter of fact .1v represents nearly no potential energy to make cell do anything.

Though demanding 20 amps or so from a cell @ 2.5V may be a serious problem.

Tapatyped

A cell at -0.1V in a series pack is bad.

 

[beckdg]

A cell at -0.1V in a series pack is bad.

Well...




Wait for it......






Duh[emoji38]

.1v = trash dump material
Doesn't matter how the cell is orientated.

Tapatyped

 

[Boden]

Well...




Wait for it......






Duh[emoji38]

.1v = trash dump material
Doesn't matter how the cell is orientated.

Tapatyped

feeling feisty today I see

Negative 0.1V

Oh never mind

 

[sparkky1]

And...

Really they don't.

They just need to know what batteries are safe and to keep the voltage in all installed cells very, VERY closely matched.

Tapatyped

And using the unbalanced USB charging port of the mod isn't helping matters any .............

 

[beckdg]

And using the unbalanced USB charging port of the mod isn't helping matters any .............

Agreed. I don't let the wife charge removable batts in her single cell mods as a rule.

Tapatyped

 

[Lessifer]

And...

Really they don't.

They just need to know what batteries are safe and to keep the voltage in all installed cells very, VERY closely matched.

Tapatyped

So they need to know at least a little about batteries.

I like to know WHY I need to know something, so personally, I would explore more.

So let's take a specific case. I've been trying to help a guy in the new member forum. He has an evic vtc mini. It was 60w, got upgraded firmware, now it's 75w. He complaining of the uwell crown getting burnt hits at 75w. He's using lg hg2 20A batteries. He, so far, insists that he NEEDS to run the crown at 75w, because his buddy does on a snow wolf just fine.

I'm also going to assume he's using the onboard charger.

See any problems there?

 

[beckdg]

So they need to know at least a little about batteries.

I like to know WHY I need to know something, so personally, I would explore more.

So let's take a specific case. I've been trying to help a guy in the new member forum. He has an evic vtc mini. It was 60w, got upgraded firmware, now it's 75w. He complaining of the uwell crown getting burnt hits at 75w. He's using lg hg2 20A batteries. He, so far, insists that he NEEDS to run the crown at 75w, because his buddy does on a snow wolf just fine.

I'm also going to assume he's using the onboard charger.

See any problems there?

Yes

You, personally can't fix stupid.

Neither can i. But I'm not trying as hard.[emoji14]

Tapatyped