Double stacking 18350s in a Mech Mod

[roffles18963]

Hey guys! I've been trolling through the forums looking for an answer, but so far I haven't found anything (even with search bar). I know that mech mods come with their own risks, and I have a sigelei Kick and a Vapesafe fuse running through my Magneto right now. I've been wondering if I can use double stacked 18350s in it, or if it's just a general no no when it comes to Mechs. Main reason I ask is because even with the kick, I'm not getting that great of performance out of my Igo-W (dual coil cotton wicks, running it at about 2.1 ohms). Wanted to see if I could get away with using double stacked AW IMR 18350s or if I should just stick to using a single battery config in my mech.

Or maybe it's the 2.1 ohms that's doing it. I've got 10/9 wraps on each wick, maybe sub ohm would be the answer (have yet to build sub ohm, but I am pretty confident in my coil wrapping).

--EDIT--

inb4 use multimeter to check coils and battery voltage. I've been doing that since the first day I got my RSST on top of double and triple checking the ohms with my Evic and Vamo v3.

 

[SIXteenINdaCLIP]

Stacking batteries is considered to be dangerous and is not recommended. What is it about your vape that you're unhappy with? I suggest experimenting with your build more and trying a sub-ohm setup for use on your mech mod.

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

Afaik, DO NOT stack batteries in a mech, you're effectively doubling the voltage, and without the circuitry to handle it, you fry whatever head your using.

 

[sawlight]

It was a common practice back in the day, but some problems arose from it, exploding batteries for instance. There are still a few being made, but most are getting away from it.
It can be done and be somewhat safe, but you have to be diligent with batteries, you need to buy new ones, label them as pairs and always keep them paired! ALWAYS!!! This keeps the batteries at the same charge/discharge rates so one isn't trying to pull the load from the other to keep up, and they should be equal internal resistance to prevent an explosion.
Another thing to keep in mind, in the old days we used 3v rechargeable batteries, this required another charger and kept the voltage at 6v instead of the 7.2v (average).
So it can be done, but isn't really recommended.
But looking at what you are using, 3.7v with a 2.1 coil, that's 6.5 watts. A pretty cool vape. Dropping your coil to 1.8 will net you 7.6 watts, a bit warmer and should be easily doable.
To run the 7.2V with the 2.1 coil is 24.7 watts, a lot warmer! I'd really look at wrapping a coil or two less and see what that nets you, or change to another wire size and see if that nets you the gains you are looking for.

 

[ClippinWings]

--I posted this---

you're getting poor performance for 3 reasons:

1. you are using a Kick

2. you are using a fuse

3. you are running a 2.1 coil

Build yourself a nice 1.3-1.5 LR coil to start... and ditch the fuse and crap.
Then you will be able to figure out the problem... because the only variables will be your battery, your contact and the coil.


-- Then I re-read the OP and added this --

you mention dual coil... so you are running 2, separate 4.2ohm coils?

because dual 4.2s will be 2.1 ohms of effective resistance.

If you meant dual 2.1's then you have an effective resistance of 1.05 ohms... which should be a good vape... even with all that electronic crap you've stuffed in the mech.

A Dual coil setup at 2.1 would take FOREVER to heat up, I would think...
I mean that just sounds like a bad vape.



-- But wanted to make sure to include this --

Oh yeah... also... DON'T STACK BATTERIES... EVER

Way too many things that could go wrong.

It's just not worth the risk.

 

[UncleChuck]

While I don't share the fear of battery stacking that others do (pretty much every consumer product has batteries stacked, in the sense that they are in series) I still think stacking batteries is pretty pointless for your purposes.

The kick is limiting your power to 10 watts. I think most people running RBAs prefer their power higher than that, and RBAs in my experience take a bit more power to "wake up" compared to things like cartos. Probably due to the much larger wicks, coils, and overall area to act as a heat sink.

The fuse is also going to limit some power as well.

I'd wholly agree with clippinwings, get rid of the kick and the fuse. And if you are doing dual coils, that will cause performance issues too at such low power levels. Dualcoils work best when each coil is operating within a good power range. A 4ohm coil (which is what you'd have to use to get 2ohms total rez with duals) does not work well at all within the voltages of a mech. I'd suggest building a simple low resistance coil on your atty and using the mech straight up without the fuse or kick.

 

[roffles18963]

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, each coil is at 4.2 ohms, I wrapped more than I usually would (normally I do 4/3 or 5/4 wraps, but since this was my first dual coil build I ran 10/9 wraps each cotton wick). Just wanted advice and get as much input as I possibly could. I was thinking it was my coils anyways, but wanted to be better safe than sorry.

 

[dr g]

I am fairly sure the kick can hit its full 10 watts on a single battery so there is absolutely no need to stack. You are simply underpowering the coil.

While I don't share the fear of battery stacking that others do (pretty much every consumer product has batteries stacked, in the sense that they are in series) I still think stacking batteries is pretty pointless for your purposes.

The reason you avoid stacking li-ions is the consequences of battery failure with lithium chemistries. Alkalines will just quickly go dead and don't have any risk of venting, fire, etc.

 

[rogergendron1]

Lol you have a mech w.t.f did you stuff electronics in it for ? Ditch all that crap and stick a good imr 18650 battery in it and make a single 1 ohm coil out of 28 g kanthal and some cotton for a wick.

I guarantee you that your problem will be solved.

Here is my magneto with a 1 ohm and iys a .......n fog machine

 

[Plumes.91]

The only mods that you ususally can stack batts in are regulated mods. Mods that can regulate the voltage down. A battery at full charge is 4 volts, 2 batteries stacked woulds equal 8 volts. No one vapes at 8 volts or the wattage or amps that would = to for whatever resistance coil your using.. There are obviously regulated mods that use stacks bats, that have safety functions built in, but you even have to be careful with those. You have to make sure that you charge the batteries in pairs and make sure that their voltage remains the same. I think we are pulling a lot more amps than a TV remote control or what have you so we need to be more careful with PVs than with other consumer electronics.

 

[rogergendron1]

Also people say not to stack but we used to stack batterys all the time in almost every device ... Even my laptop battery is jist a bunch of stacked 18650s. Yeh u can stack batterys but make shure they are new and used together all the time even charge them together. You probably do not want stacked 18350s because 7 pluss volts is just stupid unless your making a ultra high resistance dual coil 4 ohm setup , even 6 volts is pretty high but can be managed with 2 cr123 batterys wich is a verry comon setup in a lot of high end flashlights. Other than that rtd vapor has a 18650 sized 4.8 volt battery in clearance

They say not to stack because if u dont know what you are doing you could possably hurt yourself and no one wants to be the one who said it was alright.but if you knoe what you are doing and are safe there is not much that can go wrong . Stacked batts were all the rage just a short wile ago then some idiot hurt himself and now its taboo or somthing . If I want 6 volts I use two 3volt batts very simple and never had a problem not one ever ... Not even a hot battery

 

[roffles18963]

Lol you have a mech w.t.f did you stuff electronics in it for ? Ditch all that crap and stick a good imr 18650 battery in it and make a single 1 ohm coil out of 28 g kanthal and some cotton for a wick.

I guarantee you that your problem will be solved.

Here is my magneto with a 1 ohm and iys a .......n fog machine

Read my OP again, please. I am running cotton wicks on my Igo-W. I picked up a Kick because one of my friends talked me into it, but I haven't shoved it into my mech all that much since it's a pain to fiddle around with, but I use the fuse since it doesn't add much length and it's an extra safety layer, and I have a full set of AW IMR batteries (18350, 18500, 18650). I figured I wrapped my coils too many times, and I did more than I normally would because it was the first dual coil I wrapped (and I know that resistance on Dual Coils is half the added resistance of both coils). I'm just doing as much information gathering as I can so that I'm as informed as I need to be to not make a stupid mistake. It's my first mech, after all.

 

[dr g]

It's not necessarily too many times, there's no inherent "right" coil resistance. But you aren't getting enough current through those coils to get good heat and good vapor production. You would probably need a boosted mod. It might actually work with stacked batteries if unregulated, but that is over 30 watts on a fresh battery. It would be well within the amp limits of efest or AW 18350s. I dunno though, personally I would stay away from stacking li ions and go with the lower resistance coil.

 

[ClippinWings]

Try this... Rebuild your coils... But build each one at 2.0... That's probably the vape you are after.

Oh and don't mess it up with any fuse or kick or anything... An AW IMR 18650 can handle that no problem. With no realistic safety concern.

Sent from my mobile, using Tapatalk... so ignore the typos.

 

[turbocad6]

I've been dripping on a 510 HR atty in a puresmoker V3 with 2 CR123 batteries stacked to 6v for almost the past 3 years without any problem, yeah of course keep the pairs together but I think that's just a natural thing to do, I have a pair at home in the charger, a pair at work in the charger and a pair in the device, vape away and switch them out as necessary. the V3 isn't even a vented tube, but no one worried about this stuff years ago I guess... I never visited the forum in the past few years because I never had any problems, my vape was always rock solid until just recently when all my batteries were done for from so many cycles and I decided to see what's out there. I've been revisiting the forum and seeing all these latest advancements and now starting to play around with other stuff but that 6v stacked setup at ~3 ohms has kept me happily well vaped for years and still one of the best vapes you can get with a good 510 dripping atty but dripping has really gotten to be a pita since playing with some of the new toys out now

 

[scalewiz]

Some may argue about my stacking preferences, but I try to be safe. One of my most favorite setups is stacked 18350s in a mechanical mod, unfused, unregulated, driving a 4.5 ohm coil in a Terminator tank. I WON'T do this with a genny style atomizer though, since a total or partial short is very common in a genesis wick.

ALWAYS pair the batteries. Purchase them as a pair, charge them as a pair, and monitor their charged and discharged voltages carefully. When one battery deviates, either throw them both away or delegate them for single battery use ONLY.

ALWAYS use only IMR batteries when doing this. AW batteries (red label) are the only ones I trust. Those CR123 batteries just cannot handle the current you will be asking for.

As I stated above, use only higher ohm coils when doing this. ALWAYS check your coil resistance before using for the first time.

Be aware that shorts can happen, whether building your own coils, or trusting the factory versions to be perfect. If anything happens in the battery tube or switch to cause sudden heating, toss the thing down and get away. IMMEDIATELY!

 

[Thrasher]

Im not going there with the stacking or fuse etc.

but Dr g is right, just way too much wire and resistance for a mech to ever work correctly, single or dual doesnt matter (too much) but the resistance really needs to be below 1.5 for any kind of reasonable power to come out of an unregulated mod. i run right around 1.0 - 1.2 ohms myself.

 

[UncleChuck]

The reason you avoid stacking li-ions is the consequences of battery failure with lithium chemistries. Alkalines will just quickly go dead and don't have any risk of venting, fire, etc.

I'm well aware of the dangers of li-ion batteries. When I said consumer electronics I meant things like laptops, power drills, etc that use li-ion cells in series. There really isn't any additional risk as far as exploding batteries when stacking them, assuming you don't do something silly like using a spacer between the positive and negative terminals of the batteries that shorts out against the wall of the mod. And IMR cells won't blow up anyway, they will heat up and vent gases.

 

[dr g]

I'm well aware of the dangers of li-ion batteries. When I said consumer electronics I meant things like laptops, power drills, etc that use li-ion cells in series. There really isn't any additional risk as far as exploding batteries when stacking them, assuming you don't do something silly like using a spacer between the positive and negative terminals of the batteries that shorts out against the wall of the mod. And IMR cells won't blow up anyway, they will heat up and vent gases.

All such power packs have protection circuits, whereas stacking in a mech mod will not.

 

[UncleChuck]

All such power packs have protection circuits, whereas stacking in a mech mod will not.

I don't see what that matters.

Few people use any sort of protection in their mech mods other than simply using safer chemistry batteries. If something were to occur that would short out and cause venting with stacked batteries, it would also happen with a single battery. You hardshort a battery long enough it will vent, it doesn't matter if there is one cell or a million. The key is not putting your batteries in that situation to begin with.

Basically it boils down to what I already said, if something happens that will cause a short bad enough to cause thermal runaway in the batteries, it doesn't matter if there is one or two batteries. The result will be the same. I've yet to hear a single idea on how stacked batteries are more likely to short out, other than the previously mentioned silly idea of using a non-insulated spacer between the batteries, instead of at the negative terminal.

That's another unfounded fear- battery spacers. Use one on your negative terminal and it's literally impossible for anything to happen. If it touches the side of the pv, that doesn't matter, the side of the PV is the negative, and the spacer is attached to the negative, it wouldn't matter.

People simply following "rules" and parroting them to others instead of actually understanding the dangers (or lack thereof) is the reason these ideas are still around.