Doublespeak on the e-cig White House Petition - Did we all get fooled?
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This must be like the part in the movie where somebody breaks up a fight and reminds everyone who the enemy actually is.
Kurt Russel should be along any minute.
Kurt Russel should be along any minute.
True, but something not found in that petition. We're not demanding that any specific person or group has a say in the results.
Look, I know I come across as being combative with a post like that, and I'm not trying to send everyone into their respective party-line corners on the issue. However, no one can answer the "what do you want the result of this petition to be?" question about the petition because it doesn't say... well, anything.
"Recognize", "save healthcare costs", "create jobs"... sure. How? Specifically, what action should be taken? Even if they become willing to do something to help vaping, they're not able. There is no good target for where money should land, and they're not going to outlaw tobacco. So, hypothetically, Obama has this petition in his hands. We haven't named a spokesperson. It's from vapers everywhere asking him to "recognize electronic cigarettes." It's vague at best and just as likely to cause the wrong kind of recognition at worst. Petitions should be specific calls to action.
There are a number of specific thing for which we could petition. To name a few:
- Funding for the FDA to do proper studies into the health benefits of ecigs. I believe they will show tremendous gains. We can't hang on to the "We don't know, but we're sure it must be better!" mantra forever.
- Declassification of ecigs as a tobacco product and rather in the camp of tobacco cessation products. The bullet above would need to happen first. It's advantageous that it's not currently classified as a drug, which eliquid likely would in this scenario.
- Protection of all tobacco-cessation products from taxes and excises normally levied on tobacco products. If you belief the purpose of those taxes, they were intended to help curb tobacco use. Punishing the alternatives would be counterproductive. (I don't believe it's about anything but revenue on addictive substances, myself.)
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Dude I cant have said it better myself. I hate to say it but the person that started this petition should have consulted with the vaping community to get these kinds of goals set. Im not saying this petition is bad but it couldve been written a little more clearly.
Yeah, I have always said that a petition, in this administration, from this website, is pretty, how to put it, "non-promising"... lol. What did you excpect? This administration to make a promise and follow through with things he has proposed? Like, putting up a wethepeoplewebsite and promising that petitions will be reviewed, then changing the threshold to almost immposible?? Not suprized.
Said that from the beginning and was like why are we doing this? And why do we need more attention on this from the government. Not a good idea, to attract attention to ecigs right now, who knows what this administration will pull out of their ... next, to save votes... You couldn't have said it better erich.
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This is the second time we did this, this one was from a couple of years back. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available/ When we were in the FDA radar, they seized shipments coming into the US (Including a $10,000+ shipment from me when I was a vendor). They deemed it necessary to ban the sale of electronic cigarettes as a replacement, or healthy alternative to cigarettes until further research was done on the product. If we do go into this battle, we have no scientific proof that it is a healthy alternative, besides personal testimonies...and we will lose. Even though the petition uses the word "Alternative"...it's screaming "Healthy" and "NRT"...which are 2 no no's when it comes to the E-cig industry in its early stages. I thought I was the only one who saw a red flag on this petition, so I signed it, without carefully researching it, shame on me. It sounds perfect, in a perfect world. I hope everything works out for the best...I hope we don't have to start stockpiling again, those days sucked!
Pure pointless pontification. Hope you feel better now.
Weird, I found more pointfullness in erich's 3 paragraphs than in the petition itself. Keep pontificating erich.
PS: I'm not a sheep, I'm just dressed this way for the party.
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Throw rocks at me if you wish, but I will not be signing ANYTHING that requires me to give this administration my personal information. Yes, I know they get it from other sources anyway...but I'm certainly NOT going to make it any easier for them. They probably already have me tagged because I love to shoot guns and I am a certain religion that they dislike.
All that said, this will ALL come to light in the future anyway. I hate to tell ya' but the FDA battle was won, but if you think the war is over...wake up!! This issue has yet to have it's honest day in court. When it comes, we had best be ready. All it takes is ONE, single mishap caused by vaping, and the media to do it's thing...and we're right back into square one. They don't need facts anymore, remember? And they can, and will change the "rules" at any single moment if it benefits them. We've already seen it in other areas.
Are we ready? Heck NO we're not ready. A great leader once said, "He who prepares for a fair fight, has ill prepared." We haven't even prepared for a fair fight at this point. The bureaucratic, dollar absorbing, peanut counters will find holes aplenty in anything we have ready at this point.
I say the better thing here is to support CASAA and get out and convert smokers. When the feds see the money being saved in healthcare, they'll begin to listen. Is it an easy road? NO! IMHO, the easy road (albeit a noble gesture) is signing some petition and hoping for the best. The HARD road is getting out and increasing our numbers. This administration has no reason to give this petition a serious look. There's no money in it for them, and 5000 people aren't even a chad in the vote counter's bucket.
If you have extra PVs aside from backups...find a smoker and DONATE 'EM, whilst sticking around and taking the time to get them up and running!! That's the hard road. See a fellow vaper that needs juice and is in a critical situation where they might have to pick up a pack? Make 'em some juice or give 'em some juice. That's the hard road. See a stranger smoking a death stick? Take the initiative and show 'em your PV. Let 'em take a drag from it. That's the hard road! Sacrifice that extra $20 that you were planning on spending on the latest whiz bang gizmo and donate it to CASAA for research and education. That's the hard road!!
I am no sheep, and I will do my part to further our cause...I just don't see the act of picking a fight when we aren't prepared as being a wise move. I'm sure the flaming will begin now in my direction. I hope not. I sure hope alternate opinions can be expressed on this subject without nonsensical retaliation. But I will not be arguing even if such happens. I have stated my opinion. That doesn't mean it has to be your opinion, but hopefully it will spur a few into REAL action rather than waiting on the sidelines and hoping for the best.
I love you guys and gals!
All that said, this will ALL come to light in the future anyway. I hate to tell ya' but the FDA battle was won, but if you think the war is over...wake up!! This issue has yet to have it's honest day in court. When it comes, we had best be ready. All it takes is ONE, single mishap caused by vaping, and the media to do it's thing...and we're right back into square one. They don't need facts anymore, remember? And they can, and will change the "rules" at any single moment if it benefits them. We've already seen it in other areas.
Are we ready? Heck NO we're not ready. A great leader once said, "He who prepares for a fair fight, has ill prepared." We haven't even prepared for a fair fight at this point. The bureaucratic, dollar absorbing, peanut counters will find holes aplenty in anything we have ready at this point.
I say the better thing here is to support CASAA and get out and convert smokers. When the feds see the money being saved in healthcare, they'll begin to listen. Is it an easy road? NO! IMHO, the easy road (albeit a noble gesture) is signing some petition and hoping for the best. The HARD road is getting out and increasing our numbers. This administration has no reason to give this petition a serious look. There's no money in it for them, and 5000 people aren't even a chad in the vote counter's bucket.
If you have extra PVs aside from backups...find a smoker and DONATE 'EM, whilst sticking around and taking the time to get them up and running!! That's the hard road. See a fellow vaper that needs juice and is in a critical situation where they might have to pick up a pack? Make 'em some juice or give 'em some juice. That's the hard road. See a stranger smoking a death stick? Take the initiative and show 'em your PV. Let 'em take a drag from it. That's the hard road! Sacrifice that extra $20 that you were planning on spending on the latest whiz bang gizmo and donate it to CASAA for research and education. That's the hard road!!
I am no sheep, and I will do my part to further our cause...I just don't see the act of picking a fight when we aren't prepared as being a wise move. I'm sure the flaming will begin now in my direction. I hope not. I sure hope alternate opinions can be expressed on this subject without nonsensical retaliation. But I will not be arguing even if such happens. I have stated my opinion. That doesn't mean it has to be your opinion, but hopefully it will spur a few into REAL action rather than waiting on the sidelines and hoping for the best.
I love you guys and gals!
I think the most valid point made in this thread is is that 5,000 sigs is a sorry assed response considering the over 60,000 members on this forum alone.
I find it ridiculous that people sit back and do nothing (not even take a few minutes to sign a petition) and then ..... like crazy when things don't go their way and blame it on their elected officials. Perhaps we should take the first three words of the preamble to the constitution more seriously.
25,000 signatures is not even half of the members from this forum, and there are other forums.
I find it ridiculous that people sit back and do nothing (not even take a few minutes to sign a petition) and then ..... like crazy when things don't go their way and blame it on their elected officials. Perhaps we should take the first three words of the preamble to the constitution more seriously.
25,000 signatures is not even half of the members from this forum, and there are other forums.
It's only an embarrassment if you truly believe that this is the way to protect your rights in America.
Petitioning "The King" to allow his subjects to use e-cigarettes is not how we should get involved in our Democratic Republic, and I refuse to sign anything that attempts to accomplish anything this way. Our Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves.
I can't believe that people don't have a bigger grasp on how our government is supposed to work, and I can't believe we have a president who doesn't understand it, either. Presidents aren't supposed to draft legislation. We aren't the United Kingdom of America...we are the United STATES of America.
We get the government we deserve, and apparently we deserve a monarchy.
Get involved locally and write to your senators as Jefferson and Adams intended.
Sorry, but I'm TIRED of being scolded for not signing this joke of a petition.
While I did sign the petition I did not do it with my regular email account. I created one for that purpose. The same one I created for this forum. If I end up getting a lot of spam mail - I drop the account - no problem (done it a few times when the spam gets to heavy). Still needed to sign it though.
Will 5000 sigs bring recognition - of course not, but that is not the point - 0 sigs would have brought more recognition.
Will 5000 sigs bring recognition - of course not, but that is not the point - 0 sigs would have brought more recognition.
I feel that if CASAA is backing it I will help by signing.They volunteer and work their butts off for our cause and its the least I can do.I see a lot of people complaining but I do not see them doing anything at all productive to help.Just sitting on their ... telling people they are not doing it right.Instead,if you think its being handled incorrectly you get up off your ... and do something about it.Volunteer your time,donate your money.Help fix the problem.
Politicians don't care about people, just reelection, if you can show there is a LARGE group of people that will vote for "the other guy" they will listen. They won't care a hoot about your views, just securing your vote. Then you need to actually get out and VOTE!
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three peoplewalking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They maythink it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three peoplewalking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They maythink it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
I'm not ragging you dude but I wish people would stop saying this. Read the health and medical forums, and the legislation forums and dig through the info and counters for bogus reasons people try to ban e-cigs.
We Do now have lots of studies done in many places that attest to the saftey and effectiveness of e-cigs. The scientific data is there - We do have PROOF ! As much proof anyway as any pharmaceutical has that says they are "safe and effective" . More is being done all the time and none have shown e-cigs or the juice in an unfavorable light.
I will scream NRT Healthy Alternative because I know the score and I am not afraid. People have this silly misconception that if the e-cig community called it a drug delivery device or a healthy quit smoking cure all the taboo things, then it will make it harder for e-cigs to survive because the FDA Must treat it like a medicine.
HOGWASH. These are fears talking people. Don't cave to your fears! E-cigs are legally classed as a tobacco product. ECigs are a drug delivery device as much as tobacco cigarettes are a drug delivery device.
1) Nicotine is a drug and the e-cig delivers it. Fact everyone knows this.
2) E-cigs have been proven to be healthier than smoking tobacco cigarettes. Fact.
3) E-cigs are more effective at getting people to quit smoking tobacco than Big Pharma NRT's. Fact.
These things are not opinions they are facts based on much scientific study. It's silly to hide the truth. It's silly to be afraid to speak this truth. "They" opposed to e-cigs win when you hide this truth. We must stand up tall and proud and shout these things from the rooftops and tell the FDA we have the data on our side and we are Not Afraid !
Umm..... jefferson and Adams had some serious differences in political philosophy. They were actually fairly bitter enemies during their political careers. They had opposing intentions.
Then, in your signature, you quote Ayn Rand. ......... Not sure what direction you're coming from.
How is a petition to demonstrate the will of the public to those we put in power "petitioning the king"? If you don't believe that informing the government of what we want is the way to protect our rights, then what do YOU propose? Please enlighten me as to how you think our government is supposed to work. Apparently my grasp isn't big enough.
For the last few decades we've had lobbyists representing large corporations drafting our legislation. Is THAT what our founders intended? Oh, BTW, our current President is a constitutional law scholar. I think he understands his place. How in any way does our current government resemble a monarchy??? This President can't pass gas without being blocked at every turn. We must live in completely different realities.
Sign the petition, they can say you are now represented for the taxation to follow.
Not my quote, but I'll take a crack at it. It's not a petition to congress; it's a petition to the president. It's not to "those we put in power", it's to he we put in power. It doesn't ask for a specific action, but rather recognition; "favor", if you will. It petitions the executive branch of government for the purpose of legislative favor.
No one currently threatens our rights. The petition doesn't ask for a protection of any rights.
I propose vehement opposition to any action which intends to restrict vaping. Not because it falls into a special category of job creating, healthcare cost reducing magic, but because of my rights as a consumer. That I, as a free man, may use capital of my own creation to vote in a daily election for which products of others' creation I deem worthy.
You can't have one without the other. Any system whereby the mob rules will by necessity solicit the voices of all segments of that mob, including those whose financial wellbeing can be served by having such a voice. You also can't fairly categorize this with the label of "large corporations"; activists and unions have just as much influence.
I largely held my tongue through the hundreds of other posts on this subject. If you want to sign the petition, by all means, go for it. But I'm not going to be chastened for repudiating the tenets of crony capitalism.
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