DSE801 with Manual Switch

[PeteMcArthur]

i've often heard and I believe that the best artists are thieves...

on that note, I don't doubt that this new manual switch is a copy of Janty's, however, it's not worth the legal battle IMO.

thousands of products are duplicated by large retailers. target, walmart, kmart, etc. all have copies of products with their name on them and they don't pay a dime to the original patent owner.

a superior quality product and excellent customer service will always lead consumers back to the original manufacturer. i don't know the quality of this new "copy" but if it is better than a KB, then that means Janty needs to get to work

just my 02


Foxy

Sorry Foxy but that is just plain wrong. If an individual or company designs or patents something, it is their design. Copying it is theft, end of story. What it means in effect is the rightful owner loses money, perhaps workers lose their jobs so some ripoff merchant can make a quick buck. People have to pay a price for theft, if you don't where does it end? Is it OK to shoplift? Is it OK to housebreak? Same crime, theft.

 

[slianfoxob]

Sorry Foxy but that is just plain wrong. If an individual or company designs or patents something, it is their design. Copying it is theft, end of story. What it means in effect is the rightful owner loses money, perhaps workers lose their jobs so some ripoff merchant can make a quick buck. People have to pay a price for theft, if you don't where does it end? Is it OK to shoplift? Is it OK to housebreak? Same crime, theft.

sorry everyone. i didn't mean to cause such a fuss. it is simply my opinion that the theft of ideas (patented or not) happens all the time. is it okay? certainly not. but it happens and not every company has the funds to back themselves in an infringement case. especially in a relatively new market.

regardless of all this, people are going to steal bits and pieces of manufacturer's idea such as Janty's. I'm not well read with the law, but it's my understanding that patents concern the whole package.

bah, i don't know anymore...i'm confusing myself. I give in. ha


i recant my original argument. i know you guys are just trying to educate me but i hate feeling like i'm being attacked. i know you mean me no harm i just don't want to diverge the conversation more than it has been.

 

[PeteMcArthur]

Foxy,
I didn't mean to be grumpy about this, it's just that copyright theft is something dear to my heart, many years ago I was on the wrong end of it and it cost me my business I tend to get a bit animated about the subject, so please excuse the rant. People to copy others, it's just product evolution, it will happen but I think there is a difference between being inspired by a product and simple copying.

I think it's much more important to a small company like Janty, Rolex probably are not bothered about the fakes, Leica don't seem to mind the huge amount of copy cameras on eBay, but they are the big guys.

OK I'll stop now, again apologies if I started to rant

Pete

 

[TropicalBob]

I promise I won't be there.

I understand your point .. and Ludo's. I have reviewed autos for 20 years and have visited the super secret Ford test track in the Everglades. It's huge, like something from a James Bond movie. At one point, I heard screeching tires, looked up and saw a competitor car squealing around a curve, helmeted driver at the wheel.

It was then driven back to a long row of mechanic bays under a single roof.

Ford said it bought all competitors, tested them on the track, recording every performance factor via onboard computers, took apart the cars, examined them and made notes. If any bested a Ford competitor, Ford sought to close that gap. It made improvements. No copying. But testing a competitor and improving your product is SOP for businesses. That's legit. Copying is not. (Note that Detroit automakers are paying Toyota for the right to use hybrid technology that Toyota patented and Detroit now wants!)

As you might guess, I've made my living all my life with intellectual property (writing).

 

[slianfoxob]

Thanks TB

That's definitely more along the lines of what i was trying to get at. I know I certainly didn't put it that way but that's what I was going for. Companies will use the competitors products to compare and improve their own products. I'm really sorry for all the confusion.


Foxy

 

[Dr. Russell Fell]

haha ludo admitted he copied something, but continues to backtrack saying "it's only research."

hilarious.

 

[ZambucaLu]

People to copy others, it's just product evolution, it will happen but I think there is a difference between being inspired by a product and simple copying.

Again, I don't know anything about patents. David's model is a manual switch pen but it does have differences. Now what if those differences actually make the product better? What if that funky looking atomizer outperforms Janty's (particularly in light of the complaints we've been hearing about theirs)? What if that change in the battery design somehow makes it last longer?

I don't have the answers to any of these because I still haven't gotten mine ( ) but what if "copying" a product actually results in a better product? Shouldn't we, the public, be entitled to that? Again, I don't know how comparable it is to the KB (performance-wise) but I for one would sure like to be able to find out! These e-cigs are such "touchy" products that even small variations might make a difference in performance.

Nothing against Janty but I hope ALL companies keep experimenting to come out with ecigs that are more reliable and consistent in all areas....atomizers, batteries, vapor, ect...the whole shebang!

I'm not being greedy, am I?

Lu

 

[BarryK]

So then you question the European Community Agency for MODELS design patents where we have successfully registered the KISSBOX classic, The KISSBOX Yentl and 7 other models, which ARE protected designs? You agree with the Ifone next to the Iphone? you agree to a generic car that looks exactly like a mercedes? If there where no protection, this world would be grey, no unique products, no inventions, no designs...

Can you be more specific please Ludo - I've just searched the above archives and can find no record of the word 'Kissbox'

There is a record of the trade name 'Janty' but there appear to be no patents or applications associated with this trade name.

I've probably gone wrong somewhere, I guess I'm looking in the wrong place, maybe?

 

[dc2k08]

I don't know much about patents but i have heard that there are appearance patents and technology patents.

 

[Dr. Russell Fell]

Got mine a few days ago. Haven't gotten a chance to use it a lot since I'm really sick, but the little time I have used it it has been AMAZING. Tried both the manual and auto switch with the usb battery and regular battery without any problems. TONS of vapor.

LOVE IT.

 

[bluewolf]

lol...........

 

[Bertrand]

what if "copying" a product actually results in a better product? Shouldn't we, the public, be entitled to that?

A patent is a time limited state issued monopoly given in exchange for publicly disclosing a novel invention. The idea is that rather than the invention being hidden away as a trade secret, it will become public and hopefully allow others to build upon it. Once the patent expires it enters the public domain.

So no, the public is not entitled to that, if it infringes upon a patent, and for good reason. Pharmaceutical companies, for instance, would not spend billions of dollars on R&D if it weren't for patent protections.

 

[yennit]

Correct me if i'm wrong, all e-cigarette out there is a copy of "Ruyan"

 

[PakaDay]

A patent is a time limited state issued monopoly given in exchange for publicly disclosing a novel invention. The idea is that rather than the invention being hidden away as a trade secret, it will become public and hopefully allow others to build upon it. Once the patent expires it enters the public domain.

So no, the public is not entitled to that, if it infringes upon a patent, and for good reason. Pharmaceutical companies, for instance, would not spend billions of dollars on R&D if it weren't for patent protections.

You are Absolutely CORRECT Betrand But unfortunately for Janty they do NOT have a novel invention PERIOD and not only that the kissbox most likely infringes on other patents. If they did get a patent it has as much chance of being defended as Nike would trying to stop someone making a SHOE.

If Janty is claiming the Switches for E-cigs atomizers are the patent they have been on the market way before janty even thought of making one.

So how do you get a patent on something that has been on the market before?????

Whats the name of your patent attorneys Janty please let me know as I have an idea for a patent for a CAR oh and a TV and a PC maybe a cell phone and and and and.......... oh the possibilities

Pak

 

[Bertrand]

yennit: Yes, but patents are not automatically issued. They got a patent for an atomizer design nobody uses, rather than the one they and everybody else uses. Someone at Ruyan is probably still slapping themselves in the head.

 

[Bertrand]

Pakaday: not many people have seen the janty patents (or pending patents - it's not clear which). I think they would have trouble enforcing it without putting the reference numbers on their packaging, etc. Your patent will not get approved if the patent office is made aware of publicly known previously existing items ("prior art") that falls with the scope ("claims") of the patent. (Designs or objects that are not made public do not invalidate the patent.) The patent can be challenged on this basis at a later date.

Janty has had a problem making their patents public, which defeats their purpose. (In the US, for instance, it is against the law, and the penalty is an inability to enforce your patent.) They have not disclosed their patents because they have Ludo's home address on it, which he does not wish to make public.

 

[Fedor]

Even if there is a patent, it will be difficult to enforce it. David is in China. Good luck with that.

I don't know much about patents but if Dr Loi can patent his E-Turbo, which is a modified power pack (available elsewhere with different electronics and function, it seems), then Ludo might have a point.

Anyway, patents are almost impossible to enforce on the Chinese. So i guess ppl will have a choice now. Good for us consumers though...

 

[BarryK]

Before we jump to any quick conclusions folks, let's give Ludo the oportunity of revealing his patent or registration numbers, we can then read the patents (particularly those that covering the manual switch) and make an informed decision as to actually who, if anyone, is in breach of those patents.

Also, those of us who have made devices with manual switches will be able to tell if, in fact, we in breach of those patents and are about to be proscecuted if we do not cease and desist our illegal activities.

This will also allow those who wish to purchase a USB e-cig (with manual switch) to make an informed decision as to which they will purchase, i.e. a $200 device from Europe , or a £100 device from the East.

 

[Di]

the reason sited for not producing the details for us was not to reveal personal details,
like home address etc., this is rubbish,
this is public domain at Intellectual Property Office...
who knew, -- Ludo is a girl -- Josephine......

Intellectual Property Office - Results

translation of their trademark registration useage is all for medical usages, so I don't think anyone else is claiming that are they...

Class 05: Cigarettes, cigars, cigarillo' s and blow without tobacco, for medical use; ampoules for cigarettes, cigars, cigarillo' s and blow
without tobacco; cartrigdes for cigarettes, cigars, cigarillo' s and blow without tobacco, for medical use.

Class 09: Electric cigarettes, electric cigars, electric cigarillo' s and
electronic blow; batteries and accu' s for aforementioned products;
ampoules and cartridges for electric cigarettes, electric cigars,
electric cigarillo' s and electric blow.

Class 10: Aromadispensers for medical use; inhalers for medical use.

Class 34: Tobacco; cigarettes, cigarillo' s and cigars, presence or
absence of electronic; to blow, presence or absence of electronic;
ampoules, cartridges and filters for aforementioned products; Article for smokers, among which tabaksdoosjes, sigarettendoosjes, cigarillodoosjes and sigarendoosjes; opbergzakjes.

Class 35: retail store services, namely sale of 34 products called in the classes 05, 09, 10 and; advice business at sale

trademark registration for Janty.
they have no registration of any patents for--
janty -- kissbox -- etc/.
so I will believe it when I see it,

 

[Dr. Russell Fell]

Before we jump to any quick conclusions folks, let's give Ludo the oportunity of revealing his patent or registration numbers, we can then read the patents (particularly those that covering the manual switch) and make an informed decision as to actually who, if anyone, is in breach of those patents.

Also, those of us who have made devices with manual switches will be able to tell if, in fact, we in breach of those patents and are about to be proscecuted if we do not cease and desist our illegal activities.

This will also allow those who wish to purchase a USB e-cig (with manual switch) to make an informed decision as to which they will purchase, i.e. a $200 device from Europe , or a £100 device from the East.

Yep $200 for a device from Europe that was made in the East. Gotta love paying for a brand name.