E-Cig Clinical Study

[Danny]

I don't think this has been posted yet. I searched the forum and couldn't find it, so, here it is...

Electronic cigarette to be tested on smokers in trial - New Zealand's source for technology news on Stuff.co.nz

 

[katink]

I think you might have overlooked the exact date Danny: it's almost exactly a year ago (tomorrow it will be exactly 1 year).

Since then a lot has been done in New Zealand; and a number of reports have come from there, that you will be able to find discussed in the health section of this forum.
Here are a few of those reports:
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/2ndSafetyReport_9Apr08.pdf
http://healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport21-Oct-08.pdf
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Portland2008ECIG.pdf

Thanks for bringing this up: this seems to be an excellent moment to take a look at those reports - that up to this day have not found danger of any importance in the e-smoking investigated there - and did find important advantages.

 

[Danny]

Oops... Yeah... I thought is was Jan. this year... lol

 

[Xeon1979]

But if ruyan is financing the reports, Dont you believe that the information would be biased. Why would they fund something that would hurt their sales? If there was something bad that was found, Do you think they would want that information available? think about it. If you owned the company.

 

[Kate]

That's a possibility. In which case we have to rely on the reputation and integrity of the person who put their name to the reports. That's Dr Laugesen and he has a good reputation apparently.

 

[katink]

Dr. Laugeson belongs to the fiercest anti-smoking group in the country. I don't know where you are from Xeon, so I don't know the name by which your 'anti's' go - but the new-zealand equivalent of this group is actually monitoring and leading this testing being done.
I really don't think that precisely this group would have ány interest what-so-ever in anything having even a smidgeon of 'tobacco-smoking' attached to it... that would not only do damage to the people conducting these tests; but it would do big damage to the whole anti-smoking group in that country (if not worldwide).
So for me, I'm pretty comfortable that the outcomes of these tests are genuinly good... I just can't percieve any 'profit' for this group in any way from presenting the tests as being better then they really are. Though I do guess each has to make up their own mind on this.

 

[TropicalBob]

Ruyan had to really believe in its products to ask Health New Zealand to do a clinical trial. Because, yes, the results could have turned on them. But so far, so good.

And do you really think a respected researcher would stand before assemblies of his peers, as Dr. Murray Laugesen has done, or publish detailed reports on his findings with inaccurate (purposefully biased) information in his presentation? Really? Only his entire professional reputation is at stake every time he publishes a word. Park your concerns. Only a manufacturer like Ruyan could finance the tests e-smoking so badly needs as it faces worldwide bans. And thankfully a Chinese researcher was NOT used.

I have yet to see a serious red flag emerge from his studies. And I trust him, and his research conclusions. Without those, we all get to trust unknown minions in secret Chinese plants bottling unknown chemicals that we subsequently heat into vapor that we suck into the only set of lungs we'll ever have.

Anyone find comfort in unknowns like that, without assurances from a doctor like Murray Laugesen?

 

[2-cardis]

Wow, I thought those tests were pretty impressive. Are there any Runyan liquid suppliers out there?
Seems to me they checked almost everything in the liquid they could, so it makes me wonder why when some newbies ask if it's safer..they get an answer like..well, anything has to be better than smoking tobacco!

 

[Kate]

Maybe we should have a poll to see how many of us use the tested Ruyan eliquid.

 

[TropicalBob]

Proving what, for God's sake. Where would you like this to go? You either trust the only clinical trial e-smoking has, or you don't. I do.

 

[Silver]

There is actaully a slightly newer version of the New Zealand report, dated 30th October, 2008, which can be found here. Haven't yet had a chance to look into any differences with the October 21st report, but AFAIK this is the newest version available.

Cheers,
Silver

 

[Kate]

Maybe we should have a poll to see how many of us use the tested Ruyan eliquid.

Proving what, for God's sake. Where would you like this to go? You either trust the only clinical trial e-smoking has, or you don't. I do.

Proving how many people use tested eliquid and how many don't.

For god's sake? Trust? Nobody said you couldn't believe what you want and nobody cast doubt on the current research until you spout it as indisputable fact.

All I've challenged is your assertion that Dr Laugesen must be right about three competing statistics because he's our research god.

 

[Denni]

And do you really think a respected researcher would stand before assemblies of his peers, as Dr. Murray Laugesen has done, or publish detailed reports on his findings with inaccurate (purposefully biased) information in his presentation? Really?

It's been known to happen. There's plenty of bias in company-backed clinical trials, which is why people are now applying pressure to make public all the data, not just the final analysis.

Not a problem here, of course

 

[surbitonPete]

It's because people are willing to believe almost any report that an 'educated' person comes up with, that smokers are now branded as being evil 'Killers' of everyone around them.. yet the truth is that there has never been any indisputable evidence that passive smoking has ever 'killed' anyone. Even the data collected on the deaths of non smokers who have lived 'all' their lives with smokers cannot prove it......It's right to question everything until the 'facts' do become unquestionable.

 

[TropicalBob]

Believe whomever you want. Point me to another clinical trial of e-smoking and I'll evaluate that one for personal belief.

And it's only a belief .. but I think the formulation of, say, Janty e-liquid is essentially or exactly the same as Ruyan's. So the Health New Zealand study, to me, is not exclusively applicable to expensive Ruyan products, but to all quality brands. I do not believe Ruyan has an exclusive, secret e-liquid recipe that only it uses. That's where I'm coming from in studying those trial results.

 

[TropicalBob]

Server error forced duplicate post. Sorry. Boy are we having problems!!!!

 

[surbitonPete]

I am not sure but I wouldn't think e-smoking has the kind of sales yet that would make it financially viable for there to be many manufacturers of the liquid.....it's seems more likely to me that at the moment there is only one manufacturer supplying the liquid to all the retailers.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I am not sure but I wouldn't think e-smoking has the kind of sales yet that would make it financially viable for there to be many manufacturers of the liquid.....it's seems more likely to me that at the moment there is only one manufacturer supplying the liquid to all the retailers.

I think I am going to have to side with you on this SurbitonPete.

In a former life, I worked very closely with manufacturing in China and I can tell you this: I found that if one manufacturing plant isn't repackaging the same thing and dispersing it out over several "manufacturers" to make it appear like there is more than one, then something else has happened. And that is: Someone from company A has gotten together on the side with his buddies and started company B, using the exact same formulation.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I am not sure but I wouldn't think e-smoking has the kind of sales yet that would make it financially viable for there to be many manufacturers of the liquid.....it's seems more likely to me that at the moment there is only one manufacturer supplying the liquid to all the retailers.

I think I am going to have to side with you on this SurbitonPete.

In a former life, I worked very closely with manufacturing in China and I can tell you this: I found that if one manufacturing plant isn't repackaging the same thing and dispersing it out over several "manufacturers" to make it appear like there is more than one, then something else has happened. And that is: Someone from company A has gotten together on the side with his buddies and started company B, using the exact same formulation.

 

[Jammi98]

Wait a minute...didn't someone say that Ruyan liquid doesn't produce any vapor? Or am I not remembering right?