E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[deuxtrouble]

Beth I think that you are being overly sensitive. No reference was made to YOU - it wasn't said to YOU it was posted regarding all the stuff that was in that addiction post...

Thank you Simon you are a wise,charitable and personable man.
I enjoy your posts.
I like to just ignore the ignorant whenever possible or those whose reading comprehension is nil....Image
but I will make this exception tonight.... (this was part of that post)

It was actually directed by Cigarbabe TO Katie - not you. I think that you have been quite accepted here.

ETA - I believe it was a reference to the fact that it doesn't matter what is said - the same thing response is given over and over again. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[nitejanitor]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Truth is truth. It's not a verb or adjective. It's not a practice. It's finite and doesn't change.

Don't call people's ~beliefs~ the truth unless you have objective, peer reviewed, and well understood recognized data.

The whole Q board debacle is that the known truths, which aren't a HUGE body mind you, that ECF is bringing to the table is being dismissed. And while the ECFers are admitting the gaps and lack of data on some fronts, The Q veterans are blatantly ignoring the already known and well understood shortcomings of existing "solutions".

One side is being more intellectually honest about the situation. The weird things, from my perspective, is how confrontational and rude it's become. I think some Q veterans ~ masterfully ~ baited people into derailing threads. -Magnus

Is it me or are you "implying" that people on the Q board are stupid or something-theirs been some hazy references to that so I wanted to be sure I didn't misunderstand that. As to rudeness sometimes in the heat of the moment both sides get a little over the top-days like that for sure I stay away & watch the "tennis match" as I call the back & forth-thankful I'm not the target. By truths I can't explain it the way I see it-but for sure its nothing to do with lying or whatever.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Is it me or are you "implying" that people on the Q board are stupid or something-theirs been some hazy references to that so I wanted to be sure I didn't misunderstand that. As to rudeness sometimes in the heat of the moment both sides get a little over the top-days like that for sure I stay away & watch the "tennis match" as I call the back & forth-thankful I'm not the target. By truths I can't explain it the way I see it-but for sure its nothing to do with lying or whatever.

It's you.

There is a HUGE difference between being "stupid" and being willfully ignorant and intolerant.

During the Q board discussions one side is presenting data that isn't based on Straw Man arguments. Actual post hoc = 1 data. It's happened. It's no longer a hypothesis. Other smoking cessation programs and NRTs have failed in X amount of people. This is an alternative that provides less risk to analogs. They're not making absolute claims of safety and walking on water. They're presenting actual known data that will certainly evolve over time but already provides a solution that fits the goals of the Q board.

The "other" side is presenting inflamed passions, Straw Men, and speculation based on strange determinations of causation.

It's has nothing to do with being stupid. They aren't even considering the data.

Now, am I saying some of them are ignorant? Well. Yeah. Willfully so. And we're trying to remedy that for their own good and the good of others.

The very fact we're trying to remedy their ignorance attests to the idea that we ~do not~ think they are stupid. Stupid can't be fixed. Ignorance can. -Magnus

 

[LibertariaNate]

This is what I picture @ the "Q" after someone posts a link to relevant info about nicotine or harm reduction...

 

[nitejanitor]

Well they gave me support for 2 yrs & here I am almost 10 months smoke free so maybe their not high on your list of nice/favorite people but w/o them kicking my ... on occasion & the british board I'm sure I would of returned to smoking so maybe the way they see quitting isn't the same as how you see it but whatever works for which group should be accepted which both sides sometimes comes across as their way or the highway & thats the way it is. AT this point I'm just guarding my quit & keeping ole nicodemon at bay-haha.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Well they gave me support for 2 yrs & here I am almost 10 months smoke free so maybe their not high on your list of nice/favorite people but w/o them kicking my ... on occasion & the british board I'm sure I would of returned to smoking so maybe the way they see quitting isn't the same as how you see it but whatever works for which group should be accepted which both sides sometimes comes across as their way or the highway & thats the way it is. AT this point I'm just guarding my quit & keeping ole nicodemon at bay-haha.

The e-cigarette group has not come off as 'their way of the highway'... I'd like to see you reference even a handful of posts that do that. That's the problem here.

The ECF group is presenting another tool to help ENABLE the Q continue their work in helping thousands of people quick smoking and reduce (or eventually cease) the use of nicotine.

ECF walked over and gave Q a Garage full of top-notch tools to help keep the house in order. The Q board is saying no without a good reason as to why. It's not like they have no repairs left to do on the house. There are HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of smokers left in this world to help.

ECF said "Let us help you help them."

Q did what Nate just posted above..

Take your example. What if Q had more and better tools to help you and they didn't? Would you have appreciated that if you had known it? Of course not. So lets not deny other people that Q can help the same courtesy. -Magnus

 

[nitejanitor]

Well how about this then-10-1 when the dr. said quit or else what choice was I given-none really. Who knows what would happened if your E cig would of been suggested-maybe I'd still be free but sooner then 10 months ago or maybe because I did & still do to a point enjoy smoking that with your harm reducing e cig thing could be happily be vaping or whatever my brains out-have you all given much thought to people like me who thought their only choices were the standard NRT's. Its like what someone wrote i don't know a month ago about how theirs alot of people who are bitter over the choices they had when they quit & now a few yrs or whatever down the road could of had it easier (quitting). See when I first heard of E cigs I saw it & still do to a point see it as an "out" for those who don't like that quit or else choice-so thats what I see-it would of been nice to be given an option. As to being bitter I'm not bitter I may not be a totally happy camper watching others smoke but I figure in time things will turn around after all I never figured I'd ever would quit but I did with using Wellburtrin but it was more attitude of wanting to win that has kept me moving ahead.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Well how about this then-10-1 when the dr. said quit or else what choice was I given-none really. Who knows what would happened if your E cig would of been suggested-maybe I'd still be free but sooner then 10 months ago or maybe because I did & still do to a point enjoy smoking that with your harm reducing e cig thing could be happily be vaping or whatever my brains out-have you all given much thought to people like me who thought their only choices were the standard NRT's. Its like what someone wrote i don't know a month ago about how theirs alot of people who are bitter over the choices they had when they quit & now a few yrs or whatever down the road could of had it easier (quitting).

I'm not following you. Are you providing this as a reason the Q should not, or may not be accepting, ECFers into the fold?

If that's the case then you're providing even more evidence of wrongheadedness on their part.

It's like if somebody said today they're bitter that computers have spell check. Of that there is hair loss replacement surgery.

Sure... be bitter. Go right ahead. That gets you, ummm, what is that thing bitterness gets you..... oh yeah. Wrinkles. Good thing we have botox today because if you were bitter just ten years go! Oh biscuits! Let me tell you.



-Magnus

 

[phonedude]

Biscuits. There you guys go talking about food again. Biscuits and gravy would be great about now.

 

[nitejanitor]

Sometimes I wonder why I try to explain anything anywhere-its gotten old on what makes sense to me "others" don't get it???? I was refering to something I read ON YOUR SITE when someone here was saying WHY they thought other people don't get it or whatever.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Sometimes I wonder why I try to explain anything anywhere-its gotten old on what makes sense to me "others" don't get it???? I was refering to something I read ON YOUR SITE when someone here was saying WHY they thought other people don't get it or whatever.

My site? My site has zero talk of vaping so I assume you mean ECF.

I said I wasn't following you. You could take a step back and explain and not jump the shark.

However, it does appear I understood the point you were trying to make. And I'm still saying that's not a good enough reason for them to reject ECF solutions on the Q. It's not a good reason and we should make that clear if that argument is ever brought up.

You're taking any response to you as personal. Some may have been. Mine most definitely have not been.

You're a success story of the Q. That's fantastic both for you and the Q. It really is. However, instead of spending time trying to justify their ill-advised behavior in this situation, you really can bring your expertise to bear on better ways to integrate ECFing into the Q and into saving lives. -Magnus

 

[scinsc]

There is a HUGE difference between being "stupid" and being willfully ignorant and intolerant.

-Magnus

+1 That’s it in a nutshell.
What some of these folks don’t grasp is that we have all been in their shoes. They have no experience what so ever with ecigs. Who has the most experience trying to quit smoking?

 

[nitejanitor]

Oh don't fall dead from your chair BUT since I know the so called joys of quitting with the usual NRT stuff I've been trying to convince my sister & son or anyone else still smoking to consider your way. My sister says its cheaper getting started with stuff from Ohio I guess in Michigan they don't want you guys to be a cheaper choice-I don't know. So see before you came I never would of suggested that so while you think all you "preach" falls on deaf ears it doesn't.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Oh don't fall dead from your chair BUT since I know the so called joys of quitting with the usual NRT stuff I've been trying to convince my sister & son or anyone else still smoking to consider your way. My sister says its cheaper getting started with stuff from Ohio I guess in Michigan they don't want you guys to be a cheaper choice-I don't know. So see before you came I never would of suggested that so while you think all you "preach" falls on deaf ears it doesn't.

Good on you! Good for them! I wish them (and you're teaching) the best of luck! -Magnus

 

[cigarbabe]

Beth I think that you are being overly sensitive. No reference was made to YOU - it wasn't said to YOU it was posted regarding all the stuff that was in that addiction post...

Thank you Simon you are a wise,charitable and personable man.
I enjoy your posts.
I like to just ignore the ignorant whenever possible or those whose reading comprehension is nil....Image
but I will make this exception tonight.... (this was part of that post)

It was actually directed by Cigarbabe TO Katie - not you. I think that you have been quite accepted here.

ETA - I believe it was a reference to the fact that it doesn't matter what is said - the same thing response is given over and over again. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You were exactly right deuxtrouble, it was directed at kratiem in that instance.
C.B.

 

[nitejanitor]

Well I tell them what I understand & that Cigarbabe has offered to send me info for them-either they can try your method or the usuals as long as they quit especially around me would be great.

 

[MagnusEunson]

I've submitted four posts to the Q board at this point. And three on the thread somebody just suggested a bit ago be closed. If all three of those go to waste I'm going to be slightly disappointed.

BTW, *waves hi* to the guests that keep appearing reading this thread. -Magnus

 

[MagnusEunson]

Ooh. My spine got all tingle. Thank you CB! ;-) -Magnus

 

[cigarbabe]

Well they gave me support for 2 yrs & here I am almost 10 months smoke free so maybe their not high on your list of nice/favorite people but w/o them kicking my ... on occasion & the british board I'm sure I would of returned to smoking so maybe the way they see quitting isn't the same as how you see it but whatever works for which group should be accepted which both sides sometimes comes across as their way or the highway & thats the way it is. AT this point I'm just guarding my quit & keeping ole nicodemon at bay-haha.

No we do not come across as "Our way or the highway" Beth.
That is the exclusive ownership of qsmb folks who absolutely refuse to see that many of us don't use nicotine ,use reduced levels or have in fact been cutting their consumption of nicotine from day one but do we get credit for this considering all the bs you people spew?
No. No we do not.
I disagree that screaming and berating someone really helps anyone.
Does it help you quit?
If shaming you is what it takes for you to be strong, then best wishes to you but it isn't the shaming which works imo, it is your resolve to quit.
Beth you would have used ecigs had you known about them, if it was a viable alternative for you to use and had someone told you about them. Your doctor like many was and is ignorant period about the few great ways to quit smoking.....
Whom is it you are talking about really when you use "nicodemon" {is it a euphemism for smokers in general?} I'm sorry to say is an absurd term, but if it helps you in some manner well then uh, carry on dear.
I refuse to behave in such a lousy negative manner which is why I very seldom if ever answered you or the rest of the consistently nasty posters. {you aren't being quite as nasty now but perhaps the jury is still out!}
I'm sorry to say that I am on the fence about inviting you into our chat room.
I will take a poll to vote on it which the qsbm won't be able to see, this way I can nip in the bud the next batch of vile postings hopefully.....
C.B.

 

[cigarbabe]

Ooh tingly yes Magnus?

On this note I'm going back to bed, been up "sleepwriting" for hours it would seem.
G'night Beth, Magnus and anyone else here.
C.B.