E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[MagnusEunson]

I think my really not so vague UN*X reference was missed.... Shannon has totally screwed up my B+-game. I can't flirt and now I can't geek. -Magnus

 

[DC2]

I also have a serious concern about some of the numbers being thrown about by Kristin and others about how successful a PV is in helping one quit smoking. How are these numbers determined? By surveys that CASAA sends out? Who do they send them to? People that registered at CASAA? People actively participating here? Either group (CASAA members or active ECF members) is probably a bit more "hardcore" than the average Joe on the street. Have surveys of those individuals been done?

This is the information I posted over on the QSMB board...


How effective are electronic cigarettes

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2458-10-231.pdf
-Duration of quit at time of study ranged from 30 to 210 days
-81 responses with a 63% quit rate

Electronic cigarette: users profile, utilization, ... [Addiction. 2011] - PubMed result
-The median duration of electronic cigarette use was 3 months
-3587 responses with a 70% quit rate

http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf
-79% of respondents had been using electronic cigarettes for less than 6 months
-303 responses with a 79% quit rate

Goniewicz ML. Patterns of use of electronic nicotine delivery devices (ENDS) among Polish e-smokers.
12th annual meeting of the Society for Research on Nicotine and tobacco Europe. Bath, UK, 2010.
170 responses with a 66% quit rate for a duration to be added later

http://www.ajpmonline.org/webfiles/images/journals/AMEPRE/AMEPRE3013.pdf
-222 responses with a 31% to 70% quit rate

Results: The primary finding was that the 6-month point prevalence of smoking abstinence among the e-cigarette users in the sample was 31.0% and those respondents using e-cigarettes more than 20 times per day had a quit rate of 70.0%. Of respondents who were not smoking at 6 months, 34.3% were not using e-cigarettes or any nicotine-containing products at the time.

 

[deuxtrouble]

I think my really not so vague UN*X reference was missed.... Shannon has totally screwed up my B+-game. I can't flirt and now I can't geek. -Magnus

I think your geeky way of flirting is quite endearing...add to it your sense of humour...if I was single.... just sayin'

 

[MadmanMacguyver]

I think my really not so vague UN*X reference was missed.... Shannon has totally screwed up my B+-game. I can't flirt and now I can't geek. -Magnus

I caught it but your not my type so i ignored it...your geekdom is safe Sir Magnus of Tron

 

[DC2]

We always talk about the "learning curve" so I made a poll in order to try and get more detail...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ou-put-down-those-last-couple-cigarettes.html

 

[MustangSallie]

Wow, I have to go back and read a little more carefully.

 

[LibertariaNate]

I think my really not so vague UN*X reference was missed.... Shannon has totally screwed up my B+-game. I can't flirt and now I can't geek. -Magnus

I was laughing. You didn't hear it?

 

[MustangSallie]

I have the 45 minute drive. He has 10 minutes tops. He just has crazy store hours.

Ah, I read this when it said you have the minute drive. I was almost jealous until I remembered I don't commute.

 

[MagnusEunson]

DC2, can you fix the broken links? And that last one reads funny to me... it reads as if no nicotine solutions worked better at six months than e-cigarette solution in the abstract posted that way. I'd like to also read the others that are broken because most I've found has the gap in a proper control. In other words, all the data is from people who made it far enough to gather data from. So reading the actual methodology would help me sort that out. -Magnus

 

[MustangSallie]

I think my really not so vague UN*X reference was missed.... Shannon has totally screwed up my B+-game. I can't flirt and now I can't geek. -Magnus

Ah, I did read that. I chuckled too, just like Nate. Feel better, or do you want one of us to go back and "like" it?

 

[DC2]

DC2, can you fix the broken links?

Should be fixed now, and thanks for noting that.

 

[LibertariaNate]

This is the information I posted over on the QSMB board...


How effective are electronic cigarettes

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 10-231.pdf
-Duration of quit at time of study ranged from 30 to 210 days
-81 responses with a 63% quit rate

Link was censored

Electronic cigarette: users profile, utilization, ... [Addiction. 2011] - PubMed result
-The median duration of electronic cigarette use was 3 months
-3587 responses with a 70% quit rate

Visitors of websites and online discussion forums dedicated to e-cigarettes and to smoking cessation.

http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf
-79% of respondents had been using electronic cigarettes for less than 6 months
-303 responses with a 79% quit rate

[C]onducted by a UK-based online e-cigarette merchant (E Cigarette Direct)

Goniewicz ML. Patterns of use of electronic nicotine delivery devices (ENDS) among Polish e-smokers.
12th annual meeting of the Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco Europe. Bath, UK, 2010.
170 responses with a 66% quit rate for a duration to be added later

http://www.ajpmonline.org/webfiles/imag ... RE3013.pdf
-222 responses with a 31% to 70% quit rate

Link censored

Results: The primary finding was that the 6-month point prevalence of smoking abstinence among the e-cigarette users in the sample was 31.0% and those respondents using e-cigarettes more than 20 times per day had a quit rate of 70.0%. Of respondents who were not smoking at 6 months, 34.3% were not using e-cigarettes or any nicotine-containing products at the time.

Thanks for the links.

I suspect the studies you linked to that I couldn't follow would have similar methods for collecting the responses.

It proves my point though. These results are skewed based on who was surveyed and where they were surveyed. Only the "hardcore" - still purchasing products and participating in online forums - responded. I would imagine if we took a poll at WhyQuit or QSMB the numbers for quitting with NRT (not e-cig) or CT would be higher than the average population as well.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Thanks DC2, two of the four I haven't read before.. I'm leaving them open for reading later tonight. Ceridwen calls. -Magnus

 

[MagnusEunson]

It proves my point though. These results are skewed based on who was surveyed and where they were surveyed. Only the "hardcore" - still purchasing products and participating in online forums - responded. I would imagine if we took a poll at WhyQuit or QSMB the numbers for quitting with NRT (not e-cig) or CT would be higher than the average population as well.

The comparison problem is that other NRTs, by definition, were required to go through "protocol" that e-cigarette solutions have not yet been subjected to generally. Nor do I want to see that happen. So it's hard to walk away w/ the level of confidence in the data we see elsewhere.

On first glance, if this was data about say... a cancer treatment, I'd say I'll still stick with old tried-and-true. The difference here being old tried-and-true numbers are pretty pathetic and don't instill a lot of confidence either. I'll be reading the two ones I have not later tonight and will further comment after. -Magnus

 

[DC2]

This is the first one...
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2458-10-231.pdf

As ecigarettes are mainly sold online, the internet is a logical way to reach users. We therefore posted a survey form, in French, on the smoking cessation website StopTabac.ch over a 34 day period between September and October 2009. This website receives approximately 120,000 visitors per month and is principally visited either by smokers who intend to quit or by recent quitters [18,19]. Links to the survey were posted on websites that either provide information about ecigarettes (ecigmag.com, forumecigarette.com) or sell them (econoclope.com, sedansa.be).

This is the second one...
Electronic cigarette: users profile, utilization, ... [Addiction. 2011] - PubMed result

Visitors of websites and online discussion forums dedicated to e-cigarettes and to smoking cessation.

This is the third one...
http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf

The study was initiated and conducted by E Cigarette Direct (ecigarettedirect.co.uk). A convenience sample was enrolled by sending an e-mail to their consumers and links to the survey were available on their website and on various blogs and online forums. Most of the survey respondents were directed to the survey from an e-cigarette forum. Participants completed an online survey in English on the SurveyMonkey website in May and June 2009. The survey was not anonymous as SurveyMonkey tracks respondents' IP addresses and E Cigarette Direct gave participants the option of providing their e-mail address to be entered in a raffle (as is common practice for marketing surveys). Duplicate IP and e-mail addresses were identified and then these variables were deleted (by JD) prior to sending the data to the University of Alberta research team (tobaccoharmreduction.org) for analysis.

This is the fifth one...
http://www.ajpmonline.org/webfiles/images/journals/AMEPRE/AMEPRE3013.pdf

Using as a sampling frame a cohort of all fırst-time purchasers of a particular brand of e-cigarettes during a 2-week period, a cross-sectional, online survey was conducted in 2010 to describe e-cigarette use patterns and their effectiveness as a smoking-cessation tool.

The fourth one I have never been able to find a link for.

 

[LibertariaNate]

The comparison problem is that other NRTs, by definition, were required to go through "protocol" that e-cigarette solutions have not yet been subjected to generally. Nor do I want to see that happen. So it's hard to walk away w/ the level of confidence in the data we see elsewhere.

I understand that. There have been far more (proper) studies done on traditional NRT than e-cigs. What I meant though was take one of the studies DC listed, follow its same methodology, but ask WhyQuit members how well they fared quitting going "cold turkey." Do you think that segment of the population is a fair representation of the whole?

 

[hobotivo]

TThese results are skewed based on who was surveyed and where they were surveyed. Only the "hardcore" - still purchasing products and participating in online forums - responded. I would imagine if we took a poll at WhyQuit or QSMB the numbers for quitting with NRT (not e-cig) or CT would be higher than the average population as well.

I'm sure you're right. But personally I'm not all that interested in statistics except insofar as they can be used to convince others to try the e-cig.

I've got my own statistics, based on my wife and myself. Long time hard-core smokers, both quit tobacco instantly, easily and painlessly with e-cigs after all else had failed (repeatedly.)

Success rate of 100%, that'll do me.

Got an interesting new hobby and some good friends out of it too!

Cheers

 

[LibertariaNate]

I'm sure you're right. But personally I'm not all that interested in statistics except insofar as they can be used to convince others to try the e-cig.

I've got my own statistics, based on my wife and myself. Long time hard-core smokers, both quit tobacco instantly, easily and painlessly with e-cigs after all else had failed (repeatedly.)

Success rate of 100%, that'll do me.

Got an interesting new hobby and some good friends out of it too!

Cheers

Generally I think that is what most people care about. I'm happy it has helped you and your wife so much. It has certainly helped me as well.

I hope no one thinks I'm taking an anti e-cig stance, because I'm not. I'm just questioning the oft-quoted "fantastic" success rate. Debate is good, though I feel I'm doing terribly.

 

[DC2]

It proves my point though. These results are skewed based on who was surveyed and where they were surveyed.

Based on just reading the "Methods" sections...

I don't think we have enough information to say that about the first survey.
It depends on what percentage of the survey respondents came from the links on the websites.

Regarding the second and third ones I don't think we have enough information to say for certain, although your point is recognized.
But just because someone is visiting a website or still purchasing product doesn't mean they are hardcore.
There is no way to know how many of them could be people still trying to quit that have not yet succeeded.

Regarding the last one, I do not think your statement is true.
It appears the population is random.

 

[Halsey]

Well, don't forget we probably helped Hecates and Orly1777 to quit smoking.
And both appear to be on their way to zero nicotine too, if someone considers that important.

And then there are three people that have contacted me privately for advice on electronic cigarettes for friends or loved ones.
Not sure how they are doing and probably I will never know.

And one of them was one of our biggest "problems" over there.
That says a lot.

And didn't Mel get one for her mother?
(excuse me if I am misremembering the details on that one)

All in all, maybe not the best use of time or effort for two months struggle.
But then again, who can put a price on even one life saved.

Perhaps I should have said lasting good. Yes many were helped there between the few who publicly asked, those that PMed, and quite likely others who found their way here thanks to the people there, and those we may never be able to count.

As far as that goes, we've go a couple friendly new members over here. Not to mention unless Fred takes down the e-cig sub forum, and deletes the posts that are there still more may find their way here thanks to the efforts of all of you that spent time over there.

Their methods will certainly work for some, but I'm glad now that all those that get there and give up, can now see there are other options. Even if it just leads to them googeling some more and winding up somewhere completely different, if it helps them it helps them. At first the only other place that site indicated existed was whyquit.com. Now, I've been around the web more than long enough to keep looking if that's where I landed, not everyone has, hopefully now they'll see talk of elsewhere, or just start googling for e-cig info.

I guess really I was just contrasting the experience that way had interacting with the two boards.

I certainly wasn't trying to put down the good you all have accomplished there as well.

Halsey

ETA - Looks like I have some catching up to do all ready....