E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[MagnusEunson]

ETA: I still don't see why Phillip Morris or RJR or <pick any> large pharma corp hasn't jumped on this... maybe they are waiting for my fund drive to do the heavy lifting for them?

Well..

1) You really don't want big tobacco to endorse this unless you want it to end up costing three/four times as much and consumer choice to fall to nearly nothing.

2) Big Pharma gets a lot more money from therapeutic life extension in other regards, I just don't see them that interested in preventing as many diseases to begin with. To me I expect some vitamins and supplement company to take the dive first if the FDA doesn't intervene.

-Magnus

 

[MagnusEunson]

For those still not seeing it, clear your cache, and then click on "Home" in the main header bar...... -Magnus

 

[MagnusEunson]

The message it subtly sends (to me) is "E-cigarettes do not work because they do not help you quit smoking. You haven't really quit smoking unless you quit nicotine, too. Nicotine must be really bad, because even though e-cigarettes eliminate the bad stuff from smoking, they don't say this is any better for me. So, I must not be any better off with these than smoking."

I don't disagree there, it reads a little funny to me but almost intentionally conservative which if why I'm wondering if it was. I thought a top-level site suggestions thread would get more visibility but that's your call. -Magnus

 

[expat]

I just found it that way thanks. Clicking 'home' In spite of there being no place like it, I hardly ever go there.

 

[Randyrtx]

By the time I came here, I was already convinced e-cigs would help me quit, or more specifically, replace smoking. The reason I came here was to find better hardware and suppliers.

I agree, though, bring up any concerns in the Site Feedback forum, because they warrant their own thread. This is a new direction for Roly and the gang, so I'm sure they would welcome feedback and input.

Personally, I prefer to say that I replaced smoking, rather than say I quit smoking.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Personally, I prefer to say that I replaced smoking, rather than say I quit smoking.

You prefer to say that for your own personal reasons but you're not implying that a replacing doesn't also include the quitting, correct?

Because I say I quit smoking and replaced it with vaping. Quite literally that's what I say and if I've completely missed the English on this one I want to know. -Magnus

 

[kristin]

but if they were being conservative for the above reasons or others, I'm just thinking we should hear it out and help from there. -Magnus

Agreed. I know that ECF is very aware of the battles we face and wouldn't do anything to prevent our success. I'm just hoping that it was just an oversight or not throught through completely. I may be that the owners are in Great Britian and they have different laws there. I don't know. I just felt like discussing it here first.

 

[phonedude]

For those still not seeing it, clear your cache, and then click on "Home" in the main header bar...... -Magnus

Thanks. I had cleared my cookies but not my cache. Now to see what all the hubbub is about.

By the time I came here, I was already convinced e-cigs would help me quit, or more specifically, replace smoking. The reason I came here was to find better hardware and suppliers.

I agree, though, bring up any concerns in the Site Feedback forum, because they warrant their own thread. This is a new direction for Roly and the gang, so I'm sure they would welcome feedback and input.

Personally, I prefer to say that I replaced smoking, rather than say I quit smoking.

It was the same for me. I already had quit using a PV but I wanted to find out what other equipment was available. I didn't have any trouble at all finding this forum, but I was looking for it.

I'm off now to read the new introduction page. I will try to read it from the standpoint of someone who wants information about the PV. As someone who isn't already sold on their value.

But it won't be easy.

 

[Thulium]

You prefer to say that for your own personal reasons but you're not implying that a replacing doesn't also include the quitting, correct?

Because I say I quit smoking and replaced it with vaping. Quite literally that's what I say and if I've completely missed the English on this one I want to know. -Magnus

Quitting smoking is not a pharmaceutical product or drug, it is an individual choice that may happen in concert or completely without the help of any pharmaceutical aids or recreational replacements. Pharmaceutical companies want people to believe that they are the sole proprietors of public health, but until they are allowed to make health CHOICES on our behalf they are wrong in their assessment.

Vendors and manufacturers cannot make claims of therapeutic use unless they undergo premarket testing to prove its safety and effectiveness for that therapeutic purpose. ECF, on the other hand, is not marketing any therapeutic devices even if many of the members discuss how to "abuse" medicinal products as temporary replacement for recreational tobacco (dual use) or NRT as an ongoing therapy or how to use smoke-free alternative nicotine/tobacco products for health purposes.

 

[kristin]

You prefer to say that for your own personal reasons but you're not implying that a replacing doesn't also include the quitting, correct?

Because I say I quit smoking and replaced it with vaping. Quite literally that's what I say and if I've completely missed the English on this one I want to know. -Magnus

You understood correctly. Besides, it doesn't matter how people describe what they did. If you've completely replaced smoking with vaping and no longer inhale smoke then you HAVE quit smoking. Smoking is a delivery method. When it comes to nicotine, the delivery method is the most significant. While smoking always involves nicotine, the opposite is not true. Semantics don't change that fact.

 

[Randyrtx]

You prefer to say that for your own personal reasons but you're not implying that a replacing doesn't also include the quitting, correct?

Because I say I quit smoking and replaced it with vaping. Quite literally that's what I say and if I've completely missed the English on this one I want to know. -Magnus

No, not at all. I just make the distinction to separate vaping from NRT products. I did quit smoking, but I did so because I have a replacement for it that is better (for me), so I don't need to smoke.

ETA: what she said!

 

[MagnusEunson]

Quitting smoking is not a pharmaceutical product or drug, it is an individual choice that may happen in concert or completely without the help of any pharmaceutical aids or recreational replacements. Pharmaceutical companies want people to believe that they are the sole proprietors of public health, but until they are allowed to make health CHOICES on our behalf they are wrong in their assessment.

Vendors and manufacturers cannot make claims of therapeutic use unless they undergo premarket testing to prove its safety and effectiveness for that therapeutic purpose. ECF, on the other hand, is not marketing any therapeutic devices even if many of the members discuss how to "abuse" medicinal products as temporary replacement for recreational tobacco (dual use) or NRT as an ongoing therapy or how to use smoke-free alternative nicotine/tobacco products for health purposes.

I'm assuming you're responding to discussion earlier in the thread. My post you quoted was quite literally for me to make sure I wasn't misusing a term or English language when I said I quit and replaced.

Regarding the response in the context of earlier posts... I get that, I'm in agreement there, I was in agreement there with all sorts of other takedowns I've objected to in a Legal capacity. I'm not at all suggesting the language on the ECF page is what I'd like. I'm suggesting maybe they did it deliberately to avoid over-reach by a Government and we should ask in the site feedback area. Kristin said she is comfortable leaving the question here. I'd like to see it asked, I'd like to see the wording changed, .. -Magnus

 

[hobotivo]

I'd like to say how glad I am to see Magnus back in the thread and posting. Hiya Magnus!

Now I'd better go and read this new home page and see what it's all about!

Cheers

 

[Thulium]

I'm assuming you're responding to discussion earlier in the thread. My post you quoted was quite literally for me to make sure I wasn't misusing a term or English language when I said I quit and replaced.

I quoted you for the context of the word "quit" as you were using it compared to something that could be construed as a "therapeutic" claim.

Regarding the response in the context of earlier posts... I get that, I'm in agreement there, I was in agreement there with all sorts of other takedowns I've objected to in a Legal capacity. I'm not at all suggesting the language on the ECF page is what I'd like. I'm suggesting maybe they did it deliberately to avoid over-reach by a Government and we should ask in the site feedback area. Kristin said she is comfortable leaving the question here. I'd like to see it asked, I'd like to see the wording changed, .. -Magnus

I would suggest a rewording along the lines of: "Although many e-cigarette users have successfully quit smoking partially or completely by switching to a smoke-free alternative, e-cigarettes have not been clinically tested for their effectiveness as part of any approved nicotine cessation treatment or for any other therapeutic purpose. As such, legal and medical experts agree that they can only be regulated as "tobacco products" or "recreational nicotine" in certain countries."

 

[Neriah]

sneaksneaksneaksneak




?Sallie? You got your popcorn ready?

 

[DC2]

I would suggest a rewording along the lines of: "Although many e-cigarette users have successfully quit smoking partially or completely by switching to a smoke-free alternative, e-cigarettes have not been clinically tested for their effectiveness as part of any approved nicotine cessation treatment or for any other therapeutic purpose. As such, legal and medical experts agree that they can only be regulated as "tobacco products" or "recreational nicotine" in certain countries."

How about...

"Although a hell of a lot of electronic cigarette users have successfully quit smoking, electronic cigarettes have not been clinically tested and approved by the douchebags that make the rules because nobody has given them enough money. Therefore it is incumbent upon us not to tell you that so that we don't get slapped down."

Okay, so I've been drinking (Chargers game) and maybe I don't think they should say that.

Or do I?

 

[Thulium]

How about...

"Although a hell of a lot of electronic cigarette users have successfully quit smoking, electronic cigarettes have not been clinically tested and approved by the douchebags that make the rules because nobody has given them enough money. Therefore it is incumbent upon us not to tell you that so that we don't get slapped down."

Okay, so I've been drinking (Chargers game) and maybe I don't think they should say that.

Or do I?

You say tomato...

 

[MagnusEunson]

I say rutabaga! It's more fun to say.. -Magnus

 

[renstyle]

For those still not seeing it, clear your cache, and then click on "Home" in the main header bar...... -Magnus

That worked, and the new page is pretty!

 

[renstyle]

How about...

"Although a hell of a lot of electronic cigarette users have successfully quit smoking, electronic cigarettes have not been clinically tested and approved by the douchebags that make the rules because nobody has given them enough money. Therefore it is incumbent upon us not to tell you that so that we don't get slapped down."

Okay, so I've been drinking (Chargers game) and maybe I don't think they should say that.

Or do I?

ROFL! If there was a way to use up all of the , and the ....

this would be the post that did it!