E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

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MagnusEunson

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I say we try an experiment. Let's not say anything negative here for a while and post in just our e-cig area on QSMB. Let's prove who is really causing the problems on QSMB!

I can't post over there so this is my only outlet. But I can go along with the experiment. I've already been refraining from posting what I'd really like to say over the last few days.

Yeah, I'll play along but I am miffed that I submitted six responses, one as benign as responding to SS's character role post, .. and nothing was approved. Not a single one was confrontational, I wrote it like I was responding to any Graduate Student or Reporter.

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Kristin, I'd like to add a point to the mix that Fred never approved in one of my posts. The most common denominator in smoking, especially teenage smoking, is the Culture Wars against our kids. There is this assumption that kids take the habit of doing whatever their parents do well into their teenage years. This has repeatedly been debunked in the last twenty years. As it relates to addiction and violence there are a few glaring examples:

- Sex and teen pregnancy (you already covered that specifically)

- Teenage smoking actually went down during the first few years of the Joe Camel promotion. The causation was never Joe Camel in teenage smoking. It was the sudden belief that restricting kids from the smoking culture was the appropriate response. They were already responding to their parents and the laws around not doing it in a statistically significant way.

- The same basic thing happened in the last few years with Alcoholic Energy Drinks. It wasn't until we decided to pipe it was dangerous and against the kids that teenagers starting flocking to it in droves. Until then they were quite content with the dual but seperate ride in energy drink consumption and alcohol consumption.

- Video game violence is actually the worst case of this. Lt. Colonel David Grossman, while a genius with adult law enforcement and military studies, became part of the problem on the issue of kids with violence. So much so that for the past seven/eight years pretty much every paper on the topic cites his original work and metrics and ends up being flawed in two key ways that nobody ever notices. 1) The logic and the proposed metrics would basically mean that today every school would be dealing with multiple violent firearm episodes a month. 2) That street violence would be coming with the current generation of gamers and that hasn't even come close to happening.

The Culture Wars against our teenagers is far more damaging that people realize. And what we think is "cool", is NOT what teenagers think is cool. No matter how hard we try to project that down on them. So the issue of flavoring, mods, etc. just doesn't hold up any better than a Straw Man.

Anecdotal evidence, in my region, shows this has played out to a tee. Teens have the option of 808s and don't take it. They think it's silly, it's not cool until they get the dangerous whole experience. And college kids that have moved passed that phase and use e-cigs use them for harm reduction. Those few that pick up e-cigs are their "first" smoking almost always never admit that they were hookah lounge regulars and don't even consider the ~hookah~ smoking.

The same cycles will repeat with e-cigs as the current generation of youngsters hit their teenage years. tobacco won't be outlawed by then and they'll be on analogs or some variant. Or they'll be on the most sinfully dangerous version of what's available because that's what they do. And the teenage mind is wired differently enough that they consistently do exactly what we don't want them to do.

So stop developing your biases against something based on your fears of teenagers. That's not a worthwhile metric, you'll get it wrong. Start developing the same awareness and understanding of risk that we do with drunk driving, regular analogs, etc. and don't treat it like it's something they should be beholden too. And they won't.

-Magnus


EDIT: I wish I saved my QSMB responses because I was better rested and it actually read well. The above is a train wreck. Urgh.
 
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MagnusEunson

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I'm not sure calling people out (by name or otherwise) is conducive to our cause...

Grossman? He isn't a Q board member, he is a noted author...

SS? I wasn't calling him out as in 'calling him out'... What do you want me to remove, I may not be understanding the level of 'not' Kristin is suggesting here. -Magnus
 

MagnusEunson

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My comment wasn't directed towards you, Magnus.

Everything said here isn't about you! :)

EDIT: Brain fart - WASN'T

Do you not understand the words coming out of my mouth?

10rush-600.jpg


I like to check because I frequently miss points hinted toward me. -Magnus
 

MagnusEunson

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Nevermind...

No no... did you not see that movie? It's a line from the movie, I was commenting on the fact that I don't always catch on to who is saying what to whom.

Or do you not know that English is my third or fourth language (depending on what you consider language) so I have insecurities about getting my point across of comprehending.

I got what you were saying, I was making fun of me. -Magnus
 

The Big Chief

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Ill let you all decide what to do about the Q board. Ive spoken my peace in the nicest way I could think of, which is more than they deserve. I'll quite taking up brain space with them now. They can keep their nicodemon, and their nonsensical rambling posts.
The world has good things to offer, Its high time to soak up some the goodies. Sun, pool, here I come, with the kiddies in tow. :)
 

MustangSallie

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Ill let you all decide what to do about the Q board. Ive spoken my peace in the nicest way I could think of, which is more than they deserve. I'll quite taking up brain space with them now. They can keep their nicodemon, and their nonsensical rambling posts.
The world has good things to offer, Its high time to soak up some the goodies. Sun, pool, here I come, with the kiddies in tow. :)

Sounds great. The weather here today is gorgeous! :) But I have no pool. :cry: But we are going to an outdoor concert tonight, so the good weather is still appreciated. :)
 

Randyrtx

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To Stephanie.

I disagree completely with the use of "junkie" in any regard to someone who is quitting smoking. I find it offensive. In our culture and society, a "junkie" is a drug addict to an illegal drug that has serious detrimental effects in every aspect of that persons life. It causes serious physical, emotional, and economic consequences, can lead to death, and can sometimes lead to other criminal behavior.

There is absolutely no reason to refer to someone using nicotine or tobacco in this manner. Tobacco is legal. Though smoking can lead to other serious health problems after very long-term use, it does not result in immediate death or health problems the way other illegal and harmful drugs can.

Even alchoholics are afforded more respect than being called "alchohol junkies".

I am aware than the term is used more casually in some contexts. But smoking and nicotine use is not one of them where it should ever be acceptable. It is highly insulting to those of us who have broken a long-time addiction to smoking to be referred to as "junkies" and having "junkie thinking" with regards to nicotine use.

ETA: Now, if you would concede that nicotine use is no more harmful than caffiene use (which is the case in my opinion), then I would no more object to the term than I would to being called a "coffee junkie". But I don't see that happening. Do you?
 
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Linden

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I joined the QSMB board a while ago. Probably against my better judgement but I wanted to test the waters and see if I could possibly reach a few hearts that were not hardened regarding harm reduction and our mutual quest to remain tobacco-free. I really did not even expound on harm reduction. I wanted to share that my mom is dying and that if she could have had access to some of the current NRT's, maybe that would not be the case today. Katiem immediately started in with the junkie-talk. She dug in her heals when I told her I found it offensive (and was supported by several other members, as if MY feelings were negotiable). I soon realized that her heart was hardened to the extent that no matter what was said, I would not be able to reach her. I came to the conclusion that my continuing to post there was not only fruitless for her, but also for myself. Unfortunatly I still have the hope that she would read this because I feel as if her attitude is harmful to the unfortunate few who land at QSMB looking for support in their quit. (I made one last post this past week which was largely ignored (probably due to its simplicity and directness)).
Just remember that it IS a small community there and they were generally happy with thier methods before John stumbled upon them unintentionally. Ecigs have been admirably defended but as LoL says, we are arguing with a belief (insert image of banging your head against a brick wall). If Fred wanted us there, he would have banned several of his longstanding members already, and you know it. I find it offensive to essentially be told to relegate all mention of ecigs to a certain section, which can now fairly be called the 'flaming section'. Our passion for this product, and the product itself, deserves more respect than that. Why continue to even give the QSMB our time?
 
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