Some people are lucky-they know they really want to quit for whatever reasons then theirs those forced into quitting & who either fight it & have a hard to cope with quit or return to smoking cause it takes alot to get past that never ever smoking again thing. Theirs all sorts of addicting junk in cigs thats why it so hard to break that addiction & if your heart isn't into it all the more it will be hard. You figure most people haven't a clue what it takes to quit thats why we encourage people to read stuff in the newbie library.
E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread
- Thread starter John Phoenix
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I'm sorry but much of the "stuff" in the newbie library is total propaganda imo.
As far as addressing why many of you jump on new people and scare them off
from even wanting to quit?
There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, none!
You can't blame it on those people simply because they may not be ready to quit.
It's like saying to your kids" if someone beats up on you, you should just beat up the next person and forget about helping anyone"?
I should hope most wouldn't say that to their children but some will.
Is that how it works?
People come in to get a feel for the site who the members are, what they do ,how they welcome others if they welcome others sincerely if at all!.
They do not come in to see who's going to lambaste them first!
You yourself have been picked on by these same people yet your behavior when we came in to help John was much less than welcoming in fact it mirrored what they did to you.......
People who have started threads there {bunny,Hecates} about why there is so much hate for ecigs did not come from this site and start those threads for the sake of argument Beth.
They asked the questions they really wanted an answer to.
Why all the hate towards us and e cigs?
It has never been adequately answered.
C.B.
As far as addressing why many of you jump on new people and scare them off
from even wanting to quit?
There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, none!
You can't blame it on those people simply because they may not be ready to quit.
It's like saying to your kids" if someone beats up on you, you should just beat up the next person and forget about helping anyone"?
I should hope most wouldn't say that to their children but some will.
Is that how it works?
People come in to get a feel for the site who the members are, what they do ,how they welcome others if they welcome others sincerely if at all!.
They do not come in to see who's going to lambaste them first!
You yourself have been picked on by these same people yet your behavior when we came in to help John was much less than welcoming in fact it mirrored what they did to you.......
People who have started threads there {bunny,Hecates} about why there is so much hate for ecigs did not come from this site and start those threads for the sake of argument Beth.
They asked the questions they really wanted an answer to.
Why all the hate towards us and e cigs?
It has never been adequately answered.
C.B.
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I'm sorry but much of the "stuff" in the newbie library is total propaganda imo.
As far as addressing why many of you jump on new people and scare them off
from even wanting to quit?
There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, none!
You can't blame it on those people simply because they may not be ready to quit.
It's like saying to your kids" if someone beats up on you, you should just beat up the next person and forget about helping anyone"?
I should hope most wouldn't say that to their children but some will.
Is that how it works?
People come in to get a feel for the site who the members are, what they do ,how they welcome others if they welcome others sincerely if at all!.
They do not come in to see who's going to lambaste them first!
You yourself have been picked on by these same people yet your behavior when we came in to help John was much less than welcoming in fact it mirrored what they did to you.......
People who have started threads there {bunny,Hecates} about why there is so much hate for ecigs did not come from this site and start those threads for the sake of argument Beth.
They asked the questions they really wanted an answer to.
Why all the hate towards us and e cigs?
It has never been adequately answered.
C.B.
I would have to add to this, since we are talking to you about this beth... You are a member of at least two stop smoking boards that I am also a member of. Both boards ostensibly exist to provide exactly the same thing, one based in the States and another based in the UK.
You have seen the difference yourself in how each forum operates. The ppl on the UK forum have a better attitude toward "quitting" in general. Just stop smoking and we'll work the rest out later, just stay away from the smokes! I have been of the opinion that the same can be served on both boards.
It is possible that QSMB is in reality "whyquit.org for those that were rejected for not being militant enough". I've read several posts, some even by Steph that have shed some light on how "hard core" the membership is at whyquit. Have to CT and be within a certain timeframe in your quit, etc. Really turns away those of us that could never really get started because "we're not good enough" for whyquit.
I get the same feeling from several at QSMB, that since ecig users look at the nicotine issue as secondary, the addiction almost as tertiary (if at all), we're considered "not good enuf" to be part of the group.
Any ecig user can easily fit into Fred's guidelines with the simple statement:
I used an ecig to quit smoking, and with regards to nicotine use.... I'd like to quit.... eventually.
That statement has been used to *attempt* to illustrate why ecig folks are "breaking board rules" by members that don't agree with our less than strident attempts to get the nicotine banished.
Bottom line: ecigs can be a very effective tool to get many individuals to stop smoking. Stop smoking in a permanent way where they actually have a chance to maintain their quit and keep cigs banished forever. I'm not "good enuf" for whyquits standards, but they spell out their requirements before they allow entry into their world. Fred has stated that he doesn't care how you quit, just QUIT, so I fit that description.
Nobody thus far has offered to meet me in the middle.
By all technical measure, I cannot any longer be addicted to anything contained within a cigarette, as my ecig hasn't had nicotine in it for well over three weeks (and had been dropping in level for several weeks before that, from 18, then 12, 9, 6, 3 to none). And I've been free of all of the other chemicals contained in cigs since Feb 01, 2011.
I didn't drop the nicotine because I was concerned with dependence on the chemical. It was QSMB that challenged me to see if my convictions about my "addiction" were misplaced. If I really needed to have the nicotine to keep me "sane" I wanted to know so I wasn't lying to ppl about it. Happy to say my original thoughts were accurate. I'm just fine.
I am also fine with ppl making fun of me and my $34.00 battery-powered "straw". It keeps me from smoking cigs, and I'm honest with myself to know that without it, I'd go back. I do not feel less of a quitter because of this fact.
I'm sorry to say I find this statement very disheartening.
Those who tuck tail and run... those are PRECISELY the ppl that need help the MOST!
The first step in quitting smoking is realizing it is something you SHOULD do (almost all of us are past that). Next you take steps to turn that SHOULD into something you are DOING. Somebody who comes to the site (IMHO) looking for information is past that step. They are actively searching out options and information. That is the DOING. If they didn't want to quit they wouldn't ask questions, we'd never hear from them.
To get support, normally you don't have to pass a scare test. This isn't a Moose Lodge initiation, or Disney's Monsters Inc either.
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I'm sorry but much of the "stuff" in the newbie library is total propaganda imo.
As far as addressing why many of you jump on new people and scare them off
from even wanting to quit?
There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, none!
People come in to get a feel for the site who the members are, what they do ,how they welcome others if they welcome others sincerely if at all!.
They do not come in to see who's going to lambaste them first!
People who have started threads there {bunny,Hecates} about why there is so much hate for ecigs did not come from this site and start those threads for the sake of argument Beth.
They asked the questions they really wanted an answer to.
Why all the hate towards us and e cigs?
It has never been adequately answered.
C.B.
Absolutely correct CB...there is NO excuse for that kind of behavior. There's a handful over there that seem to think it's their responsibility to look over new members first to see if they are worthy of membership.
They constantly like to talk about the "hundreds" they've saved. I suppose that's better than mentioning the "thousands" they've scared away.
I say if you truly believe in helping people quit what does it matter the method as long as they quit and it doesn't hurt anyone else or themselves in the process...
anything else is a power play and nothing more...stop deluding yourselves...if you truly care about helping people quit work with us not against...
and yes I added the last part because I know you are reading this sooner or later( Q board members)...
if someone here wants to quote me there go right ahead...but I don't have the patience for derogatory abuse when I mean no harm to anyone.
anything else is a power play and nothing more...stop deluding yourselves...if you truly care about helping people quit work with us not against...
and yes I added the last part because I know you are reading this sooner or later( Q board members)...
if someone here wants to quote me there go right ahead...but I don't have the patience for derogatory abuse when I mean no harm to anyone.
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</the doctor>
Very well put Madmac. I most likely will post there some in the future. I have lots of ignore filters in place. That makes it rather pleasant there.
(or at least tolerable)
Pretty much everything you've (phonedude) said so far, I've been onboard with. I too am/was on the same path you are, with regards to vaping, etc. (same as ren)
What the few there have failed to accept or acknowledge is that there are people that are on a path of reduction or elimination of nicotine. They have clinged to "all of you are junkies". Frankly, that's upsetting to me for a variety of reasons. Addiction is addiction is addiction. Once an addict, always an addict, using or not. An addiction support system is about support. The basic rules of helping people in that area (addiction therapy) are listening without judgement and/or without condemnation. That is where the initial shots started and that seems to be a continuing battle. Judgement and condemnation was immediately passed, subsequently never apologized for or rectified. Until that basic issue is addressed and resolved, I don't see any "peace" happening.
This article highlights that, but there are other resources that echo what I'm saying:
http://www.tbdmda.org/overcoming-the-stigma-of-addiction.htm
Another thing that became apparent to me is, the portion of the "treaty" that talked about "controlling members at the ECF board" with regards to comments. There can not be any expectation of controlling anything anyone else says. Kristin highlighted this that people are responsible for their own actions and their own actions alone. The counter to that point was, "admonish those, correct them, let them know that activity or behavior is unacceptable" (sic). That part is applicable, you can't control someone, but you can establish boundaries and limits, hoping that they are adhered to. That is equally applicable to both sides, not just one. If the expectation is for there to be "correction" on this end, a sign of good faith would be to implement it on their own end. Treaty or no treaty, it's a pro-active and positive thing to do regardless. It's constructive, a part of the therapy and group dynamics.
Regardless, my impression was that Fred established those boundaries. They should be adhered to and the need for a treaty would not be realized, it would be implied. Additionally, it should not be about "You can't come into the main forum and we won't go into your forum". That is not how a board functions, should not function. Want to limit the scope of a particular section? Sure, but summarily excluding people from posting at all in an area, no.
There are some good people over there, they aren't all bad. I can only count about 4-5 that are extremely vocal and maybe another 2-3 that are passive-aggressive on the issue(s) at hand. 7-8 people do not a board make. The good people over there (some have come over here), are truly good people. I want that to be specifically noted, there are good people there.
What the few there have failed to accept or acknowledge is that there are people that are on a path of reduction or elimination of nicotine. They have clinged to "all of you are junkies". Frankly, that's upsetting to me for a variety of reasons. Addiction is addiction is addiction. Once an addict, always an addict, using or not. An addiction support system is about support. The basic rules of helping people in that area (addiction therapy) are listening without judgement and/or without condemnation. That is where the initial shots started and that seems to be a continuing battle. Judgement and condemnation was immediately passed, subsequently never apologized for or rectified. Until that basic issue is addressed and resolved, I don't see any "peace" happening.
This article highlights that, but there are other resources that echo what I'm saying:
http://www.tbdmda.org/overcoming-the-stigma-of-addiction.htm
Another thing that became apparent to me is, the portion of the "treaty" that talked about "controlling members at the ECF board" with regards to comments. There can not be any expectation of controlling anything anyone else says. Kristin highlighted this that people are responsible for their own actions and their own actions alone. The counter to that point was, "admonish those, correct them, let them know that activity or behavior is unacceptable" (sic). That part is applicable, you can't control someone, but you can establish boundaries and limits, hoping that they are adhered to. That is equally applicable to both sides, not just one. If the expectation is for there to be "correction" on this end, a sign of good faith would be to implement it on their own end. Treaty or no treaty, it's a pro-active and positive thing to do regardless. It's constructive, a part of the therapy and group dynamics.
Regardless, my impression was that Fred established those boundaries. They should be adhered to and the need for a treaty would not be realized, it would be implied. Additionally, it should not be about "You can't come into the main forum and we won't go into your forum". That is not how a board functions, should not function. Want to limit the scope of a particular section? Sure, but summarily excluding people from posting at all in an area, no.
There are some good people over there, they aren't all bad. I can only count about 4-5 that are extremely vocal and maybe another 2-3 that are passive-aggressive on the issue(s) at hand. 7-8 people do not a board make. The good people over there (some have come over here), are truly good people. I want that to be specifically noted, there are good people there.
I agree totally Clay. There are some fine people on the Q board. And the others I have on ignore.
I personally think the only way to stop the flaming is to totally ignore it. I would like, just once, to see EVERYONE just ignore those postings. Whether you read them or not is up to you. But there is no rule that you have to reply.
I just can't see it being fun for those few to keep it up if they get no response. And there are actually some of their long time members that will step up and admonish them. We don't even need too.
As far as being confined to the "e-cig box" that really doesn't bother me. There is no other section of that forum that I have any interest in, or can really relate to. I've stated it before but the only thing I could add to any other NRT or Cold Turkey discussion is "well that didn't work for me." And that wouldn't help anyone.
Our goal as I see it was to get information on e-cigarettes on their forum. We have accomplished that. We have helped a few people already.
Life is good.
I personally think the only way to stop the flaming is to totally ignore it. I would like, just once, to see EVERYONE just ignore those postings. Whether you read them or not is up to you. But there is no rule that you have to reply.
I just can't see it being fun for those few to keep it up if they get no response. And there are actually some of their long time members that will step up and admonish them. We don't even need too.
As far as being confined to the "e-cig box" that really doesn't bother me. There is no other section of that forum that I have any interest in, or can really relate to. I've stated it before but the only thing I could add to any other NRT or Cold Turkey discussion is "well that didn't work for me." And that wouldn't help anyone.
Our goal as I see it was to get information on e-cigarettes on their forum. We have accomplished that. We have helped a few people already.
Life is good.
Good points made by many. Thank you.
Just curious. Anyone get in on wave one of the sapphire tanks at gotvapes.com?
Just curious. Anyone get in on wave one of the sapphire tanks at gotvapes.com?
I didn't but I hope to get in on them when they restock. They look very, very interesting. It's especially interesting to me because they will be getting 808 versions.
I've been using a Vision for a week, and it's working great. It's the only cartomizer I've been using, so it's getting quite a work out. I've done one dry-burn, and it's still working like new.
They do look interesting. I'm hoping they taste as good as the clearos without all the hassle. I just want something that works well out of the box. I'm tired of fiddling with these things.
I did a dry burn on a CE2 yesterday. Filled her up, took a couple hits and then... nothing. Looks like they're only good for few refills. Not to mention the whole having to mod it, holding it in a certain way, never say anything negative or look at it funny, and 1000 "Hail Mary"s...
I'd hold out for some of the new designs from other manufacturers. I've still got a few working Fluxomizers left to use once my Vision craps out, but I probably won't buy more unless I run out. Might have to buy more tubes though.
I'm ultimately interested in a fillerless solution that will work with Volt/Bloog style batteries.
I'm ultimately interested in a fillerless solution that will work with Volt/Bloog style batteries.
Good question up from electricman at the Q board: QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com • View topic - FLAVORINGS-RELATED LUNG Disease
I don't have any answers, other than flavoring percentage is low, and that's it's not necessary to inhale vapor fully into the lungs.
ETA: the article he posted has to do primarily with Diacetyl, which we already know is harmful and isn't used anymore in e-liquid flavorings.
I don't have any answers, other than flavoring percentage is low, and that's it's not necessary to inhale vapor fully into the lungs.
ETA: the article he posted has to do primarily with Diacetyl, which we already know is harmful and isn't used anymore in e-liquid flavorings.
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What new designs are in the works that I should wait for? I'm looking for something that will work on my Darwin.
I agree totally Clay. There are some fine people on the Q board. And the others I have on ignore.
I personally think the only way to stop the flaming is to totally ignore it. I would like, just once, to see EVERYONE just ignore those postings. Whether you read them or not is up to you. But there is no rule that you have to reply.
I just can't see it being fun for those few to keep it up if they get no response. And there are actually some of their long time members that will step up and admonish them. We don't even need too.
As far as being confined to the "e-cig box" that really doesn't bother me. There is no other section of that forum that I have any interest in, or can really relate to. I've stated it before but the only thing I could add to any other NRT or Cold Turkey discussion is "well that didn't work for me." And that wouldn't help anyone.
Our goal as I see it was to get information on e-cigarettes on their forum. We have accomplished that. We have helped a few people already.
Life is good.
Good post I agree. I have faith that someone surfing for help will see through a fanatic and ignoring him or her is good advise. I got some sage advice many years ago...Never try to wrestle with a pig in the mud. The pig loves it.
There are several companies working on top-coil CE2-type designs, as well as bottom coil designs like the Vortex. The Vortex "2.0" should be available in a few weeks.
MiT/Royal Smokers is also perfecting their CE3 design, which is a bottom-coil and uses a different tube material than the CE2.
I see. Thanks for the heads up. I've been looking forward to Vortex 2.0 as well. I think I'll still give the sapphire I try though. * fingers crossed *
I found it funny that the sapphire logo looks exactly like blu. From what I can tell, only one person called them on it and it was ignored...
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