Well, you may wanna go a lil easy on this part. You're doing great for being here & talking about it, but you don't really know us yet. The majority of people who vape more than occasionally, do actually want/enjoy/count on the customizable-ness of it. Just about anyone you ask "why did vaping help you quit smoking when nothing else did?" will answer that being able to customize it to whatever they liked most is what helped them get off analogs. Again...there's gotta be a way to address both sides of this question, if we can only find it! Right now people aren't talking about the "problem" because no one has a feasible answer (sorry, but ceramic isn't it. Look at aspire's experience with ceramic wicks to see a whole other part of why it'll almost certainly never even be tried by enough people to make it catch on.) But if we find an answer, make it easy enough & workable enough, then I'd bet the bank that people will listen.
e-cigarette Wikipedia article needs help
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Well, you may wanna go a lil easy on this part. You're doing great for being here & talking about it, but you don't really know us yet. The majority of people who vape more than occasionally, do actually want/enjoy/count on the customizable-ness of it. Just about anyone you ask "why did vaping help you quit smoking when nothing else did?" will answer that being able to customize it to whatever they liked most is what helped them get off analogs. Again...there's gotta be a way to address both sides of this question, if we can only find it! Right now people aren't talking about the "problem" because no one has a feasible answer (sorry, but ceramic isn't it. Look at aspire's experience with ceramic wicks to see a whole other part of why it'll almost certainly never even be tried by enough people to make it catch on.) But if we find an answer, make it easy enough & workable enough, then I'd bet the bank that people will listen.
Sorry BTW, that last post may have sounded snarky, and I didn't really mean it to. Lol
Wait, so you think creating heat to vaporize e-liquid only happens in cigalikes? Cuz if you're running a setup that doesn't have a point of resistance in the circuit, that creates heat, that vaporizes ejuice, that creates vapor... in other words, if you're running without coils of some kind, be they Kanthal or nichrome or ni200... you could make a million FAST. Cuz last I heard, that was far from a "disposable cigalike" concept.
...wanna play some more?
Wait, so you think creating heat to vaporize e-liquid only happens in cigalikes? Cuz if you're running a setup that doesn't have a point of resistance in the circuit, that creates heat, that vaporizes ejuice, that creates vapor... in other words, if you're running without coils of some kind, be they Kanthal or nichrome or ni200... you could make a million FAST. Cuz last I heard, that was far from a "disposable cigalike" concept.
...wanna play some more?
What mod has a built-in heating element other than disposable cigalikes? My ProVari are regulated battery holders. They don't have a built in heating element. Someone made the comment mods will be banned because of toxins given off in the heating elements...
If that is how you feel, start a company that makes them that way. No one is stopping you. Put your money where your mouth is on what everyone apparently wants, and make what you are describing. Let the market show what people want.
Nice to know that the guy who didn't even know what an e-cig was suddenly knows exactly how everyone in the vaping community thinks. I guess I am the only person in the world with an RDA, right? Guess all the manufacturers making different resistance coils are just wasting money, since everyone just wants one specific setting, right? You couldn't be further from the truth. While I may not represent the entire vaping community, I am much more than just the outlier. I am representative of a subsection of the vaping community. There is a large group of people that are willing to change things on their devices to bring things to their preferences. If there weren't. you wouldn't see coils of differing resistance. You wouldn't see variable voltage and variable wattage mods. You wouldn't see RDAs. In fact, the main reason for RDAs is because people wanted more than what cigalikes could give them. They went out and started creating their own mechanical mods and rebuidable atomizers so they could get exactly what they desired. Saying that there is virtually no one who wants to do that is silly. Look at the number of mods out there. Now, look at the seemingly endless number of RDAs out there, and how many more are being made every day. That alone disproves that hardly anyone wants to use those items.
And, as for the comment about the heavy metals and toxins, we are aware of it. Sure, we would prefer that they not be there, but we are willing to accept it. Most of us were smokers prior to vaping. We look at the obscene number of toxins in cigarettes and compare that with e-cigs. We see that the choice is obvious. Sure, vaping may not be harmless, but it is most likely A LOT healthier than what we were using before.
Aha. So, you're still nitpicking terminology, just a different term than the one I thought you were. A non-vaper used the word "mod" to refer to the complete setup, and it tweaked your nose. My apologies. [HASHTAG]#DoneHere[/HASHTAG]
If a guy is writing a Wiki article on vaping and doesn't know mods and attys aren't one and the same, what is he doing writing a Wiki article on vaping?
FWIW there already are ceramic covered coils on the market, they're called 'vaping donuts' and in their current iteration, based on most every review i've see, they don't work very well.
Top of the page on FD's site:SHOP - FatDaddyVapes.com - Home of the best vape tweaks and replacement hardware.
Top of the page on FD's site:SHOP - FatDaddyVapes.com - Home of the best vape tweaks and replacement hardware.
I'm sorry but the metaphor escapes me. If you think I'm wrong in some way, please, spell it out.
I appreciate the nit-picking. It's critical in my opinion to have the best, most precise and most widely-used word, and if optimum is not available then find the best "compromise" terminology is the next best thing. I have no problem with being set straight on correct use of language. I have an electronics background, and so I use the words I have available on-hand to describe what I think I know. Being openly wrong about something is a necessary 1st step towards learning.
I don't know if the word "coil" will apply to a ceramic coated heating "something". The engineer I spoke to last night used the word "heating element" and I took that word and ran with it because it sounded right and it felt right and I have no better reason to use it than that. And can drop it instantly if a better word or phrase presents itself.
Failing to self-regulate will destroy the open market.
Part 1
What percentage of the overall vaping industry do you think you represent? What percentage of people that vape on a regular basis have ever, or will ever change the heating element in their vaping device?
Part 2
How does the number of people currently vaping on a regular basis compare to the number of people that WOULD move to vaping (from cigarettes)? What percentage of the potential market do you think you represent?
I'd be surprised to know that more than 10% of the regular vapers care enough about their devices to modify them. Correct me if I'm wrong. Meaning that, at best, you represent only 10% of the people that vape regularly.
I doubt that more than 1 person in 10,000 would be willing to invest in the amount of knowledge and awareness that you have. Again, I'll say it again, the biggest mistake "people that know things" make is that they fail to appreciate how rare they are. They assume "everyone knows" what they do, and everyone does not. Funny how people here sort of have this "Geez this guy is stupid" undertone to some of their comments, as if "everyone" knows this stuff, while other people (in another aspect of communication) fail to appreciate how rare their knowledge is in other ways (in this specific instance, believing that "most people" would favor an option laden vaping device and also would be open to the possibility of inhaling toxic metals, PARTICULARLY if they can be avoided for a nominal upcharge.). Again, I've seen (and experienced) this on online forums for computer repair. People that know it don't know they know it, and make the mistake that "everyone" has the same level of "common sense" instinct that they do. They don't. They're wrong. And that fundamental mistake of failing to appreciate the special nature of your specialized knowledge has a tendency to skew all your other opinions about "everyone else" and "everything else".
And, in terms of the overall market, the early adopters are NEVER representative of the average consumer. They NEVER are. All you alpha, beta-testing, early adopters are smarter, more motivated and better informed than 90% of the general public will ever be on vaping. The general public sees public service announcements where 10 tons of information is condensed into a meaningless 15 second sound-bite, and if the vaping industry cannot boil down that 10 tons of information into the single sentence "Vaping is completely safe." then you are going to have a toe-to-toe conflict with Big Tobacco and Big Pharma both, and you are going to lose. Self-regulate or die. Never get into an argument with someone that buys ink by the barrel.
In terms of the potential market, well it's my opinion that 90% of the potentially vaping public do not and will not be willing to purchase a vaping device that cannot be considered to be 99.5% safe. Instinctively they understand that nicotine will always have dangers, and also they understand that they have cut-out all the toxins and carcinogens from burning tobacco, but as soon as you say "toxic metals" (in ANY quantity, and at any level) automatically they are going to recoil. Who wants to think about the nanoparticle sized bits of toxic metals coating the inside of your lungs while you are vaping a substance that Big Pharma and Big Tobacco has been telling you is toxic. Better to stay with the devil that you know.
Long term, and in order to pursue HUGE profit (which is what BP and BT are after), the "grassroots" vaping community is going to have to present the average consumer with a "finished product" that is as safe as technology can make it, otherwise the average consumer, being the frightened sheep that they are, are going to wait for the surgeon general, the FDA, the Federal Government, the Tobacco Lobby, Big Pharma, Big Charity to all agree that we need a massive bureaucracy to regulate and control the entire industry (from manufacturing to retail sale and licensing the use of the products) and they will tax the industry to pay for this bureaucracy, as well as to fund whatever other "special projects" they think are deserving.
One recent example for me, is the adoption of Windows 10. MS puts pressure on average people to install Windows 10, but how many people here know how to go about turning off all the spyware and data sharing and uploading capabilities that comes with Win10? I do. I'm a bit of an expert on that. I know where to go, and what questions to ask, and who to ask them from in order to get the software that I need to cripple Win10 to a level of functionality that I can live with. I'd be surprised if anyone here knew what I know. And, on the forum that I learned all this stuff on, all this knowledge is "common sense" there, too. And they're wrong over there, too.
My point is, the "we" that you represent is very, very small, compared the size of the market that is going to be regulated (including you and your segment) if the vaping industry fails to self-regulate.
I've made several posts declaring my lack of expertise on vaping, as well as limiting my focus on the wikipedia article to only the Lede, and least at first.
I didn't. I said that vaping devices will be regulated if the industry doesn't require all "complete" devices to have heating elements that do not release toxic heavy metal particles. The ceramic element is just one possibility. It doesn't matter what the solution is, as long the industry finds one and implements it as standard practice. The sooner it does this, the better it will be.
If 10% of us are experimenting & modifying, a breakthrough is inevitable, & we need an answer before we can "self-regulate".
What devices are you talking about? Cigalikes? VUSE already has a form of temp. control...
I guess that says a lot about Wikipedia having editors edit pages on subjects they know little to nothing about...
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