Off topic:
Zaxx, is that your dog as your avitar?? If so... GSD lover/owner myself, and that dog is beautiful!
My best,
-VP
E-Cigs on Today Show (05/09/09)
- Thread starter CoderGuy
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Off topic:
Zaxx, is that your dog as your avitar?? If so... GSD lover/owner myself, and that dog is beautiful!
My best,
-VP
I completely agree with you.....My 13 year old son has been caught, and in trouble a few times for swiping a cig here and there, to sell at the skate park. Now he isn't able to.
Perhaps we are going about this particular debate the wrong way...by pushing the positives of our PV's. Maybe we need a bit more education out there on the negatives of these....mainly:
-The technology issues - who hasn't had an atty or battery die on them at the MOST inoppurtune time? What teen is going to want to have to deal with that? Kids want their instant gratification and they want it NOW.
-The learning curve
-Inital and continuing costs
-Filling, refilling, leaking, dripping, recharging......need I go on? These things are work....and we tend to get a bit obsessive over our gear because we're ALWAYS fiddling with it......tell me what teen is going to do that? If they do get a hold of a PV, they're going to play with it a week or 2, then toss it in a drawer and forget about it.
-The technology issues - who hasn't had an atty or battery die on them at the MOST inoppurtune time? What teen is going to want to have to deal with that? Kids want their instant gratification and they want it NOW.
-The learning curve
-Inital and continuing costs
-Filling, refilling, leaking, dripping, recharging......need I go on? These things are work....and we tend to get a bit obsessive over our gear because we're ALWAYS fiddling with it......tell me what teen is going to do that? If they do get a hold of a PV, they're going to play with it a week or 2, then toss it in a drawer and forget about it.
Is 50.00 to get in the door valid?I bet more kids try beer then a fine scotch their first run into the other save the kids movement.
Also, this is the only "tobaccolike" option that has a zero Nic alternative. good luck finding dip or snus or analogs that don't have any nic at all.
Maybe that should be the focus. Separation from tobacco toward a new product type. no longer coined "e-cig" but truly projected as personal vaporizers.
Decided it was time to make a start... Letter to "americanlegacy"
"Contact Us:" americanlegacy.org/232.aspx (Can't post url's yet)
"Subject Line:" Why do you want me to die?
"Message:"
Dear American Legacy Foundation
I have been smoking a pack a day for 5 years now, I have tried smoking cessation products that are currently on the market and have managed to go 2 days without cigarettes using them before driving my wife mad. I started using a personal vaporizer (e-cig) 2 weeks ago because I was tired of smelling like an ash tray, and having my wife look upon me with disapproval. I have not smoked a traditional cigarette since my personal vaporizer has come in the mail, and I've even gone several days without using the personal vaporizer without ill effect.
I cannot help but to wonder why you would rather I and others like me to die a slow and painful death. I agree that we should educate our children to refrain from using tobacco products, what I do not agree with you on, is that "e-cigs" will cause teenagers to move to traditional cigarettes. I spent close to $150 after doing a month of research on a good, but relatively cheap product. How many teenagers could manage $150 using a credit card, have the patience to learn how to use and take care of a PV (personal vaporizer), and keep up with the payments required to buy replacement parts and liquid (some with nicotine and some without).
Even though a PV can be used for non-nicotine style vapor inhaling, the device is still only sold to individuals 18 years of age or greater. Teenagers would have a much easier time bumming cigarettes off of people, stealing them from family members, or having others purchase the real tobacco products for them.
Research does need to be done and quality control would be a bonus, however, what is known from current research is that over 400,000 people die a year because of tobacco. Tobacco IS harmful and deadly. Alcohol is deadly and addictive (Liver disease, drunk driving, etc) attributed to over 100,000 deaths per year. A prominent researcher acknowledged that more research on PVs needed to be done, however based upon scientific research that has already been done on products on the market now, PVs with nicotine vapor would be about 1% as harmful as cigarettes.
Tobacco: 400,000 deaths per year
Alcohol: 100,000 deaths per year
PVs: 4,000 estimated deaths per year IF everyone who currently smoked decided to use PVs instead
While regulation of the quality of PVs would certainly be welcome, an outright ban would be signing a death warrant to people like me who have been unable to quit for years with current products on the market. The device is currently marketed as a cigarette replacement device. The only side effect that people have found, is that people feel much better, their doctors are happy that they have stopped putting smoke into their bodies, the ex-smokers now vapers are feeling much healthier, and many people have even managed to quit without meaning to.
So please tell me why you want me to die. Your document urging the banning of e-cigarettes is irresponsible and baseless. Kids wanting to be cool or to pick up smoking will do so at the much cheaper cost of bumming, stealing or purchasing normal tobacco cigarettes. If you would like to save lives, get tobacco and alcohol banned, they are the killers. If you do not think you could manage that, perhaps supporting PV usage would help save lives. PVs need research, testing, and quality control. Banning them now will only ensure that none of that will get done in the US as the industry is small and cannot support millions of dollars and a decade of research, while millions of cigarette users will no longer have a workable alternative to harmful cigarette smoking. There is a reason current cessation products have only a 5% success rate, and that is because they do not work well.
If you truly want to save lives, please end your campaign to stop the sell of Personal Vaporizers. You would save my life only by supporting them.
Sincerely,
XXXXX XXXXX (real name in actual message)
any suggestions let me know, maybe I did bad, maybe good. I figured it was a start
. If I do get any suggestions I'll incorporate them and keep adding to the list of people to send messages too .
AnimeFur, just for the record, there certainly are zero-nic snus and they come in a variety of tasty flavors, including cappucino! There is non-tobacco, no-nic chewing tobacco, also available in flavors like wintergreen, etc. These will also be under the gun if the FDA gets control over tobacco products and alternatives to tobacco products.
As for cost .. the best seller where it's offered is the $24.95 Ruyan Jazz disposable. My dealer can't keep them in stock. THAT'S where beginners begin and with the recent tax hikes, five days with a Jazz is less expensive that an equal amount of cigarettes.
Kids somehow find money for what they want. We can't fully control their behavior. And with the Jazz, there's no fiddling, no learning curve, no dangerous liquids, etc ....
As for cost .. the best seller where it's offered is the $24.95 Ruyan Jazz disposable. My dealer can't keep them in stock. THAT'S where beginners begin and with the recent tax hikes, five days with a Jazz is less expensive that an equal amount of cigarettes.
Kids somehow find money for what they want. We can't fully control their behavior. And with the Jazz, there's no fiddling, no learning curve, no dangerous liquids, etc ....
I can only hope that if my 10 year old decides to try nicotine that she will grab a PV instead of a cigarette. I know that is what the non-smoking groups fear, but why? Do they actually think we can control whether our children choose to smoke or not?
Until nicotine is completely banned outright, there should be alternatives that are less dangerous...even to our children.
I actually think that if people were logical, they could see that having safer alternatives, because kids will be kids, would be a good thing. Let cigarettes be banned and then we can discuss the harms of nicotine to our kids.
I am right there with you.
I find it ridiculous that the pharmaceuticals are even prohibited from marketing their products as safer alternatives to tobacco cigs.
It is definitely time for an all over thought process change when it comes to this topic.
Difficult......very much so. These groups have had it ingrained in them for the last - what - 50 years - that the only alternatives are quit or die.
Not impossible, but an Everest for us to climb, surely....
Well thank god for those ski poles I have rusting in the garage. Time to get those babies out...
- Status
