E-Cigs = Tabacco User for Insurance?

[taguy]

And there you have it in one succinct sentence! Don't kid yourselves...nicotine is not, and I repeat not, risk free, ask any cardiologist. If you were a smoker you are/were addicted to nicotine plain and simple. If you were not addicted you could have just vaped 0mg and quit smoking presto bingo. insurance companies always want to stack the deck in their favor. Bottom line, insurance no matter what kind it is, is a business and they make their money by taking in more money than they pay out....period. It is always in their interest to deny anything they can and pay out the least they can get away with. JMHO

Correct, I'm also interested in finding out how health ins. co's are handling the E-cigs, I'm a P & C agent but sell alittle group health and have a good size health dept at our agency. I'm going to ask one of them to make some calls for me and I'll report back. I'm not going to argue the they "deny anything they can and pay out the least they can get away with" point but to put it another way, smokers (includes me at this point) are more inclined to have more claims (wouldn't think there would be much argument there), so they want the applicant to be honest on the app so they can charge a higher premium than they would vs a non-smoker just like they would with auto ins for a driver that's had a cpl accidents vs one who has a clean driving record.
If my recollection is correct, the app states "do you use tobacco products, including cigarettes, skoal, snuff ect (something to that affect) but never have saw e-cigs in there, which are, non tobacco products so there is definitely a gray area, especially as you stated, nicotine does, according to some, still have some health effects. It will be interesting, I will report back what I find out.

 

[flintlock62]

This is only an opinion, but if a doctor says you're a non-smoker, then you must be non-smoker.

I haven't tried yet, but my Doctor wrote me down as a non smoker in my files and told me to get get insurance. Nice on his part but the insurance company's might think diff.

 

[ClippinWings]

How in the blue hell did the squirrel light the sparkler? LOL!

Off a Super Low Res Coil, of Coarse!

 

[DeeDee1234]

Off a Super Low Res Coil, of Coarse!

Exacty where did this smoking squirrel come from? THat's my question

 

[Holbie]

I recently became licensed for health and life ins sales this year, on some applications it asks about tobacco use, and on some it specifically about any nicotine containing product. So I would have to speculate it goes company by company what the policy is. Then the question becomes does nic free juice still count as a smoking product or not. there is no nic but you are still inhaling water vapor so it is kinda a grey area, as far as lying on the application they have two years from the date of policy to contest anything on the application other than age for Life Ins., they would just change the policy to reflect a benefit based on the premium paid and what the rating should have been.

 

[Alexvac]

And there you have it in one succinct sentence! Don't kid yourselves...nicotine is not, and I repeat not, risk free, ask any cardiologist. If you were a smoker you are/were addicted to nicotine plain and simple. If you were not addicted you could have just vaped 0mg and quit smoking presto bingo. Insurance companies always want to stack the deck in their favor. Bottom line, insurance no matter what kind it is, is a business and they make their money by taking in more money than they pay out....period. It is always in their interest to deny anything they can and pay out the least they can get away with. JMHO

True, however your premium is based on how much the insurance company has or expects to pay out to the particular group you fall into. If you were grouped with other ecig smokers rather than tobacco users, you should expect to pay a lower premium.

 

[taguy]

I recently became licensed for health and life ins sales this year, on some applications it asks about tobacco use, and on some it specifically about any nicotine containing product. So I would have to speculate it goes company by company what the policy is. Then the question becomes does nic free juice still count as a smoking product or not. there is no nic but you are still inhaling water vapor so it is kinda a grey area, as far as lying on the application they have two years from the date of policy to contest anything on the application other than age for Life Ins., they would just change the policy to reflect a benefit based on the premium paid and what the rating should have been.

Was figuring there had to be a health agent that vapes that would chime in, that would know more than me, good info! I agree, it's going to be a grey area as the E-cigs are kinda new, but I bet we see more questions about nicotine containing products, and even listing E-cigs.

 

[sidetrack]

True, however your premium is based on how much the insurance company has or expects to pay out to the particular group you fall into. If you were grouped with other ecig smokers rather than tobacco users, you should expect to pay a lower premium.

Yes, and that is precisely what they are doing....grouping you with other nicotine users. The nicotine you buy in a premade juice or DIY is from........you guessed it tobacco. no tobacco (for our use...yes i know tomatoes have it but seriously...you're not eating that many tomatoes are you?)no nicotine. Lordy, I hate that it sounds like I'm sticking up for ins co.'s and I'm not. At this point in time and until we get concrete evidence that it's 100% safe(doubtfull) we have to play by their rules. If you test positive for cotinine you are grouped with anyone who uses a tobacco product/byproduct in any form.

 

[flintlock62]

Yes, nicotine comes from tobacco, but it's still far removed from the entire plant, and the other deadly chemicals that are produced during the burning process. There are other plants ingredients are extracted from that are safe, but not the rest of some plants can be quite toxic. The Castor bean is one example. The oil is OK, but one single bean can kill a human within minutes.

Yes, and that is precisely what they are doing....grouping you with other nicotine users. The nicotine you buy in a premade juice or DIY is from........you guessed it tobacco. no tobacco (for our use...yes i know tomatoes have it but seriously...you're not eating that many tomatoes are you?)no nicotine. Lordy, I hate that it sounds like I'm sticking up for ins co.'s and I'm not. At this point in time and until we get concrete evidence that it's 100% safe(doubtfull) we have to play by their rules. If you test positive for cotinine you are grouped with anyone who uses a tobacco product/byproduct in any form.

 

[steelshoe552]

Insurance companies do not use the term nicotine use, at least minme doesnt, they use tabacco use. I checked with my insurance company and benefits rep with work and they consider as none tobacco user. Check with your insurance company for clarification though....saves me ten bucks a paycheck

 

[sidetrack]

Yes, nicotine comes from tobacco, but it's still far removed from the entire plant, and the other deadly chemicals that are produced during the burning process.

Please explain in detail how nicotine is "far removed from the plant"? Are you suggesting that nicotine is non-toxic(due to the castor bean analogy)?

 

[flintlock62]

I didn't say nicotine isn't toxic, did I? There are many other substances in a tobacco plant that turns into cancer causing chemicals when burned, 4,000 chemicals, and over 80 that cause cancer. Nicotine in sensible dosses, is no worse than caffeine. As far as extracting nicotine, look it up for yourself. Nicotine by itself has not been proven to cause cancer.

Please explain in detail how nicotine is "far removed from the plant"? Are you suggesting that nicotine is non-toxic(due to the castor bean analogy)?

 

[DC2]

Oop, wrong thread...

 

[chimsweep]

Sticky area here. The problem from what I have dealt with is when they classify ppl as smoker or non smoker the quickest/cheapest way for them to tell is to use a blood test for nicotine. Unfortunately I think the only way to force insurance companies to change this practice would be gov't legislature, or act of god. I'm guessing both are as likely as an albino squirrel crawling out my rear holding the American flag in one hand and a sparkler in the other while singing the national anthem.

Just so I can ascertain the odds of this happening I would first have to know if the squirrel is a typical grey squirrel and which National Anthem are we talking about? If it isn't a grey squirrel and it's the Canadian National Anthem....I would have to guess no, but now if it's a red squirrel with Chinese made sparklers singing the French Anthem I would pay $5 for a copy of the youtube vid.

 

[CommaHolly]

I was told that if there was nic in my system, it wold be ASSUMED I was a smoker,,,,,,,

I went to 0 nic.

 

[crxess]

If there is no tobacco stain on my teeth/fingers and I do not smell of smoke they can kiss mine.

Smoking is inhaling burning tobacco.
Consuming nicotine is not the same.

That is like claiming I am addicted to Soda because I test positive for caffeine.
I drink coffee.

 

[CommaHolly]

Insurance companies do not use the term nicotine use, at least minme doesnt, they use tabacco use. I checked with my insurance company and benefits rep with work and they consider as none tobacco user. Check with your insurance company for clarification though....saves me ten bucks a paycheck

mine says "tobacco products, including but not limited to",,,,,,,,,,,,,,and lists e cigarettes amongst the list.

 

[skoony]

it doesnt matter.
when obama care completly kicks in yes.
the fda has allready classified ecigs as tobacco for insurence.
that means 50% surcharge no matter what plan your on.
they will be sending out swap kits to test you.

1984 regards
mike

 

[retired1]

the fda has allready classified ecigs as tobacco for insurence.

No, they haven't. Which is why they're saying they're going to issue their deeming regulations in October on e-cigs.

 

[90quattrocoupe]

Get a prescription for Nic gum or patch. That is where you nic comes from.

Greg W.