E Cigs take a hit on Portland, Oregon Public Transportation

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rothenbj

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Vocalek

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I'd like to find out and speak to whoever is responsible for this.

Hopefully I'll have time to put in some calls tomorrow -- TriMet: Offices and Department Directory

You might want to send them the link, or print and mail the Health New Zealand "poster" presentation at the Dublin conference of the Society for Research on Nicotine and tobacco. http://www.healthnz.co.nz/DublinEcigBenchtopHandout.pdf

E-cigarettes are akin to a medicinal nicotine inhalator in safety, dose, and addiction potential.

Ask them if the Nicotrol inhaler is also banned. How about Nicotine gum or lozenges? The patch?
 

Placebo Effect

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I called the number for TriMet's board of directors, and was referred to a very cordial woman in their legal department. She noted that the ban did not come about because of lobbying from any public health organizations, but rather because of ongoing issues with people calling security because they believe cigarettes are being smoked.

I've asked her to forward my below letter, which included links to the poster Elaine posted, as well as the first New Zealand study, and the Court of Appeals' recent decision, to the Board of Directors.

I've also asked her to provide me with an e-mail address for other advocates to send letters to. When she replies, I'll let you all know. I don't want to hammer her with e-mails if she's not the proper party, so I'm redacting her name.

Ms. __________,

Again, it was nice speaking to you today. Could you please forward this to the members of the Board of Directors? Also, if other harm reduction advocates wish to contact Trimet, should I direct them to e-mail you? Or is there someone else? I will not release your e-mail address until you reply.

I understand Trimet's concern about security resources being wasted when a e-cigarette user is reported for breaking Trimet's no-smoking policy. However, I ask the Board to reconsider their resolution to ban the e-cigarette on their property.

The following document is a poster created by the Health New Zealand, a research and policy group that studied e-cigarettes. This was presented at the Dublin conference of the Society for Research on Nicotine and tobacco. The study found that while the toxic emissions score of cigarettes is 100+, e-cigarettes scored a 0. Further, the same organization's health report on the e-cigarette reported that the exhaled mist that an e-cigarette creates is comprised of propylene glycol, with very little or nicotine being emitted, which is regarded as safe for human consumption by the FDA.

As I stated on the phone, the Court of Appeals for the D.C. District recently ruled 3-0 that the FDA did not have the authority to ban the e-cigarette. In doing so, the Court agreed with the District Court that "the FDA had cited no evidence to show that electronic cigarettes harmed anyone." (at 14). The FDA had a vested interest in showing the e-cigarettes to be harmful, and failed to do so.

Additionally, the New Zealand report demonstrated that e-cigarette users have to take five puffs from their device in order to match the amount of nicotine that is delivered to the system by one puff of a regular cigarette. This means that people who are attempting to quit cigarettes with an e-cigarette are more prone to use their device frequently, lest they feel the desire to smoke a real cigarette. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that e-cigarette users are frequently "puffing" on their product.

I ask the Board to consider the number of complaints that security has received about e-cigarette users, and the relative cost to Trimet that comes with sending a security guard out to check for violating of Trimet's no-smoking regulations. After doing so, please weigh these costs against the harm that the people and taxpayers of Portland will continue to suffer from cigarette addiction. The longer that an e-cigarette user is forced to go without nicotine, the more likely they are to want to satisfy their desire with a real cigarette, thus putting themselves in danger. This product, especially now that it has been approved by the FDA, is the future of smoking cessation, and with more and more news stories covering its proliferation, I posit more people will recognize what an e-cigarette is, thus reducing the number of complaints.

On a final note, I understand that the Board of Directors is likely comprised of individuals who either do not smoke or have quit smoking in the past. The natural response, and one that I've heard from many people when advocating for the use of e-cigarettes, is "Why can't they just quit?" However, the smoking rate in the United States has virtually stagnated at around 20% over the past decade. Traditional methods of smoking cessation have failed to bring this rate down. When used as directed to wean the patient down and off nicotine, FDA-approved nicotine products have a success rate of 7% at six months, 5% at one year, and only 2% by 20 months. (Moore D, et al. Effectiveness and safety of nicotine replacement therapy assisted reduction to stop smoking: systematic review and meta-analysis. BMJ 338:b1024 2009.)

Thank you for your time. I hope that this letter can have some effect on your upcoming January vote to ban e-cigarettes.
 

rothenbj

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Nicely done placebo! However, this may start a study by our university friends in Cali identifying the health risks associated with people having potential heart attacks by seeing people creating the illusion of smoking using an E cig. It probably will be called seventh hand smoke illusion dangers. These people drive me wacky and I still think the axis of evil played in this decision.
 
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kristin

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A man gets on a bus. His head is shaved and he has tattoos all over. He looks like a dangerous criminal.

Do we now ban people with shaved heads and tattoos from riding city buses because of what they look like and not what they actually are just because people complain?

I'm sorry, but that scenario is highly unlikely. If someone was using a PV on a bus, just the absence of the smoke smell would easily indicate that it isn't a "real" cigarette. What they are really saying is that they are too lazy to explain e-cigarettes to people and it's easier to forbid people from engaging in an activity which has not been shown to be a danger to anyone.

On the flip side - people need to learn to stealth vape or they can wait for a short bus ride to vape. Vapers also need to get over themselves with this sense of entitlement that seems to stem solely from the joyous sense of "in your face" for being persecuted as smokers. Not that I don't completely understand it, but we need to pick our battle grounds wisely.
 

Petrodus

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On the flip side - people need to learn to stealth vape or they can wait for a short bus ride to vape. Vapers also need to get over themselves with this sense of entitlement that seems to stem solely from the joyous sense of "in your face" for being persecuted as smokers. Not that I don't completely understand it, but we need to pick our battle grounds wisely.

Excellent advise...
"In your face" is just Double-Dog-Daring the opposition to fight...
And they will. Not a hill worth dying on!
 

t9c

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On the flip side - people need to learn to stealth vape or they can wait for a short bus ride to vape. Vapers also need to get over themselves with this sense of entitlement that seems to stem solely from the joyous sense of "in your face" for being persecuted as smokers. Not that I don't completely understand it, but we need to pick our battle grounds wisely.

Yep, and it doesn't really help much that many e-cig suppliers base much of their marketing tactic on being able to vape anywhere one chooses,, which darn near everyone here at ECF knows is not true.
 

kristin

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Yep, and it doesn't really help much that many e-cig suppliers base much of their marketing tactic on being able to vape anywhere one chooses,, which darn near everyone here at ECF knows is not true.

True, just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. You CAN clip your toenails or pick your nose anywhere you want - but SHOULD you? LOL! ;)
 

rothenbj

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Gotta tell a story here. About three years ago, I was on an APA pool team that qualified for the national tournament in Las Vegas. We arrived at the airport checked in our bags and proceeded to the second level to pass through security. The fellow I was walking with had a western belt on and went before me. The alarm went off and they used the wand on him and found it was only his belt buckle that caused the alarm. However, the security officer said you'll need to put your belt in your luggage or get rid of it.

He looked at them like they must be joking and asked why. The belt buckle had gun replicas on it. I really never saw his buckle before, but there stamped in plain sight, in a full view that might have scared passengers and led to panic in the coach section of the Delta flight we were taking, yes I mean right there......were two western six shooters, each at least 3/4's of an inch long. Now we knew he was joking but there was no smile on his face and I never saw one of those people with a sense of humor.

He wasn't kidding. Fortunately, our bags hadn't moved from the area where we checked them and he was able to save the only belt he had with him. Now the rules state, "Realistic Replicas of Firearms" are only permitted in baggage on flights and it did look like two 3/4" brass stamped realistic replicas of handguns on a belt buckle, but really. We thought this guy was just being an idiot, but on the way back from LV he had it on and asked before he checked his bag and got the same answer.

We have reached a point that it is easier not to think or reason, just obey all laws and regulation that the nanny state can provide us.
 

xg4bx

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A man gets on a bus. His head is shaved and he has tattoos all over. He looks like a dangerous criminal.

Do we now ban people with shaved heads and tattoos from riding city buses because of what they look like and not what they actually are just because people complain?

I'm sorry, but that scenario is highly unlikely. If someone was using a PV on a bus, just the absence of the smoke smell would easily indicate that it isn't a "real" cigarette. What they are really saying is that they are too lazy to explain e-cigarettes to people and it's easier to forbid people from engaging in an activity which has not been shown to be a danger to anyone.

On the flip side - people need to learn to stealth vape or they can wait for a short bus ride to vape. Vapers also need to get over themselves with this sense of entitlement that seems to stem solely from the joyous sense of "in your face" for being persecuted as smokers. Not that I don't completely understand it, but we need to pick our battle grounds wisely.

hey, you just described me lol. i'm no criminal though, just a big teddy bear lol.

i do agree with you about picking your battles. just because you technically can, doesn't mean should. until e-cigs are common as dirt,everyone knows what they are and vendors are on every corner, in the eyes of the world you are still a smoker. period. have some self control. we don't need the reputation of being arrogant pr*cks either.
 

kristin

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hey, you just described me lol. i'm no criminal though, just a big teddy bear lol.

LOL! My husband has tats - even on his neck - and often shaves his head, so he gets looks sometimes, especially in the summer. And when he's with me and I'm dressed in a business outfit - then we really get looks! But he's a big sweetie, too!
 

Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah

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the perception argument, unfortunately, is one we're going to have to deal with. The PV won't get the normalization it needs to get to go mainstream unless there are vapers 'doing their thing' everywhere that people can see them doing it. You can't change public perception by hiding what you're doing - that just makes you appear as if you have something to hide...and you don't. Vaping shouldn't be treated with the social stigma that cigarettes have.

I agree that there ARE deeper issues here - mainly having to deal with the hassle of having uninformed people calling the authorities with complaints that people are 'smoking' when they are, indeed, not, and this is where most of the bans are going to come from - someone gets sick of hearing from the public and instead of informing them, decides to take the path of least work and ban the behavior.
 
I think some "demystification" is needed. The FDA, media and other puppets of Big Healthcare have referred to "antifreeze" and the "potential dangers" of this seemingly wondrous new technology...and with the way that many people adore vaping, an outsider is likely to fear the wonders of this seemingly complicated and controversial object called the e-cigarette.

It's really not that complicated or scary: I haven't met many people who can vape more than about 1 milliliter in an hour--that's one THOUSANDTH of a liter over the course of an hour--and that's a feat that many vapers probably couldn't even accomplish if they tried! The amount of liquid that is vaporized is so miniscule that it is unlikely that the vapor would be hazardous to bystanders even if it were intentionally poisoned.

The fact that it is possible to mimic the actions of a smoker with an e-cigarette does not change the fact that vapor is fundamentally DIFFERENT from smoke. Is there any more reason to fear the breath of a person consuming a few drops of e-liquid with 1% nicotine, than you would fear the exhaled vapor of a person consuming a few cups of lquid of 1% caffeine??

Although it would be nice to have decades of clinical studies to confirm the absolute safety of e-cigarettes, if you actually understand how they work (and they aren't as complicated as an unscrupulous marketer might like consumers to believe)...COMMON SENSE tells you that they are probably harmless.

The sad part is that this really isn't a hit on e-cigs, its a hit on everyone else. We vapers can and will continue to stealth vape to our hearts' content anywhere we *bleep*ing well feel like it and there really is nothing anyone can do about it (short of physical restraints). The people that are hurt by this are the smokers who are stressing out because they don't have time to get off the bus and decompress with a cigarette, unaware that they could simply pop a snus or take a toot on a PV. The people that are hurt are the nonsmokers who dont like or want to inhale the sidestream smoke that is avoided whenever someone uses a smoke-free alternative to cigarettes.
 
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rothenbj

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That's precisely why the user funded Indoor Vapor Air Quality Studystudy is so important to get funded and published.

It's expensive getting this type of thing done and and anti-smoking/tobacco/nic extremists aren't going to do it because they know well that it would be difficult to show PVs to be anywhere near as hazardous as SHS which they really need to stretch for in the first place. Instead they'll spend money on studies like we saw from UCR with a lot of mights and coulds and a summary that they're dangerous to animals and children and should be pulled from the market.

There's a donate button in the link and there's a link to a raffle for vendor provided stuff every month or so. The money generated gets added to the funds for the study. I'm not sure what total contributions are to date but last time I looked the fund was short of the half way mark. December's raffle (I didn't win) was last week but there should be information on the next one placed on the site in the near future. I know they generated about $2,000 in December, but to me that rate is way to slow to get this done.
 
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dirtmonkey

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In case anyone is curious about the exact wording:

(retrieved from http://trimet.org/pdfs/code/TriMet_Code_Chapter_28.pdf on 2/5/2012)

TriMet Code

CHAPTER 28 – REGULATIONS GOVERNING CONDUCT ON DISTRICT PROPERTY

28.15 (2) Smoking: No person shall smoke an electronic cigarette, tobacco or any other substance, or shall carry any lighted or smoldering substance, in any form aboard a District Vehicle, in any elevator or underground area of a District Station, or within any space or area where posted signage prohibits smoking.

Sloppy choice of words they used there. I, personally, would absolutely never "smoke" an electronic cigarette. That would destroy it, and burning plastic could wreck my lungs. It would taste pretty nasty as well.
 
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