e-pipe

[NerdyCinderella]

OK, here's a video demonstration of what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azn0uKbGZiw

The amount of vapor, the build quality, and the ease of draw on the ecig.com are all far inferior to the njoy. If they were really all he same, I might agree with Trog, but they aren't.

Thanks leaford for quieting the bird. When I first watched one of you videos I didn't know what the sound was. At first I thought it might be coming from the TV show I was watching. Then I thought it was some alarms going off in my apartment - lol

 

[trog100]

it would prove little leaford.. here we have e-cig hating bob who never misses a chance to knock em.. who has tried one e-cig pipe.. he says its a wimp.. here we have me and two other members of my (heavy smoking) family who have tried six pipes (we have tested all spare atomizers) and all without doubt say they produce oodles of smoke very reliably and very nicely (when used how we use them) we love em and just hope they last a reasonable time.

in your video u say the only thing wrong with your cheapy dse901 generic is it aint pretty enough.. but where these things are made is the key.. brands dont mean much..

pillbox tells me the gammuci comes from the same place (is the same) as his half the price generic types.. i am sure its possible to pay three times the price for the same 901s he sells..

mr darcy says there is new technology.. i dont see it.. i see claims like HD cartridges but i dont see any explanations (proof) as to how this new technology has improved on the older technology.. i see salesmens claims.. but i expect to see salesmens claims.. they flow off my back pretty much like water does off a ducks..

i see gee wow wiz reviews all based on one try of one product.. in fact i see what i expect to see on any "enthusiasts" forum..

i see things getting smaller.. but to me this is negative factor.. it simply makes the economy and reliability worse..

what i do not see from u thow is the bang for buck factor.. or the reliability factor.. these two things equate to the over all cost effective factor..

now matter how well a ruyan works.. the ludicrous price puts them totally out of contention.. at least for me it does.. the ruyan 45 dollar disposable cigar would fit my needs i am sure.. except for one thing.. i have no desire to spend 22 dollars per day plus postage) on my e smoking habit..

but i am sure they would be fine otherwise.. the hard bit is trying to find something as good for one tenth the price..

trog

 

[Mr.Darcy]

Trog,i never said there was new technology,i said there have been attempts at improvement of existing technology recently- i did say that i considered them to be relatively minor,but they are attempts at improvement none the less.now,i have no experience with any of those products,so i dont know personally what-if any-difference these small changes make to performance...but neither have you Trog.you seem to think that people on the forum have an agenda and are ill informed fanboys-who knows,some might be..but i think that the vast majority of people are more mercenary than that.if you find something that works for you,then of course you are gonna use it,and praise it-until you find something better..but how do you find something better if you arent willing to try any other products?sure,you have to allow for the difference in performance of even the same brands,but i dont think allegiance to any particular product or company makes sense in the ecig world.i dont have a problem with people who have some experience experimenting as they wish,its their money-which is what this all boils down to really-whatever works for the individual,yourself included,is up to themselves.you know how they work-they really arent that complicated,they consist of the same basic components etc..ok,but arent you curious to know for yourself if there is any difference,and if there is,then why?i am an inquisitive bugger,so i need to find out for myself..i had a few spare quid knocking around anyway..

 

[trog100]

agreed entirely.. i will trust your assessment of any new product u buy.. as to the fanboy thing.. its seems only a computer "enthusiast" will accept the term without hostility.. they make a joke of it.. i once made the mistake of using it in a pentax digital dslr camera photographic forum.. he he..

i am also very curious which is why i know more money dosnt mean better quality.. these things do seem to have a mind of their own and have been the cause of much head scratching and theorizing in my family..

in theory a forum like this should produce all the needed knowledge.. "but the tower of babel" principle kinda messes things up big time..

the signature i have at the moment on the PC forum i have been using says..

"ignore the truth.. follow the herd you will make more friends that way and be happier"..

the one someone said i should use here goes..

"nicotine helps keep me sane and makes me more tolerant of the fools i am surrounded by..

as u see.. i set out to make friends and am the perfect forum person.. he he he

trog

ps.. i recon my favouriate other persons quote would be..

Oscar Wilde.. "apart from being right the majority is invariably wrong".. or another one of his.. "the law should be for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools"..

he did spent quite some time in jail thow.. he he..

 

[leaford]

it would prove little leaford.. here we have e-cig hating bob who never misses a chance to knock em.. who has tried one e-cig pipe.. he says its a wimp.. here we have me and two other members of my (heavy smoking) family who have tried six pipes (we have tested all spare atomizers) and all without doubt say they produce oodles of smoke very reliably and very nicely (when used how we use them) we love em and just hope they last a reasonable time.

Deflecting the issue, Trog. The Poll was in reference to your statement that it's not about the smoke volume. I think if we asked everyone here, they'd all agree that more smoke is better. And "oodles" is a pretty subjective standard. I demonstrated objectively that Njoy outperforms e-cig.com.

in your video u say the only thing wrong with your cheapy dse901 generic is it aint pretty enough.. but where these things are made is the key.. brands dont mean much..

Brands mean nothing at all. Having control of the manufacturing and quality control CAN mean a lot. Some brands actually pu effort into things like quality. Others, like e-cig.com, do not.

pillbox tells me the gammuci comes from the same place (is the same) as his half the price generic types.. i am sure its possible to pay three times the price for the same 901s he sells..

Strawman argument, Trog. Did I ever say that by the virtue of a brand name, the product is better? Or did I ever say that paying more for the same exact thing is better? Try sticking to my actual argument instead of your own delusions. THEY ARE NOT ALL THE SAME! Gammuci may or may not be the same as Pillbox's. I have tried neither, nor made any claim about either. Njoy's E-cig is a far superior penstyle model to e-cig.com's penstyle, due to better manufacturing, and better design. That is my specific claim. E-Cig.com produces an inferior product, that is my speciufic claim. Njoy and Janty have made real improvements in basic design over the generic models out there. That is my specific claim. And I have backed those claims up with evidence. If YOU want to prove that Pillbox's 901 is just as good as Gammucci, be my guest. It may very well be true. IT MEANS NOTHING to my argument.

mr darcy says there is new technology.. i dont see it.. i see claims like HD cartridges but i dont see any explanations (proof) as to how this new technology has improved on the older technology.. i see salesmens claims.. but i expect to see salesmens claims.. they flow off my back pretty much like water does off a ducks..

And so does evidence, I see. Janty has redesigned the switching system for the penstyle. They redesigned the atomiser for their Yentyl minis, a design which has since been copied by the generics. They further refined that design so that the new KISSbox Yentyls work better still. Njoy has redesigned their atomizers, improving airflow and smoke production. These aren't salesman's claims; I can pick up two e-cigs, hold them side by side and compare. I can demonstrate the difference. Oh, wait, I DID!!!

i see gee wow wiz reviews all based on one try of one product.. in fact i see what i expect to see on any "enthusiasts" forum..

i see things getting smaller.. but to me this is negative factor.. it simply makes the economy and reliability worse..

what i do not see from u thow is the bang for buck factor.. or the reliability factor.. these two things equate to the over all cost effective factor..

Do you see more smoke from the Njoy than from the E-Cig.com? Because that's what I saw. And to me, that's more bang for the buck. As to reliability, you are ASSUMING that Janty and Njoy are less reliable than e-cig.com. Where's your evidence of that? Bsed on the easily demonstrated poorer quality of the e-cig.com, and on YOUR OWN reports of all the bad units yuou've discarded, I would suggest that it's likely to be the opposite. That's what the evidence says. Where's your evidence to the contrary? Or are you just gonna call me a fanboy again?

now matter how well a ruyan works.. the ludicrous price puts them totally out of contention.. at least for me it does.. the ruyan 45 dollar disposable cigar would fit my needs i am sure.. except for one thing.. i have no desire to spend 22 dollars per day plus postage) on my e smoking habit..

but i am sure they would be fine otherwise.. the hard bit is trying to find something as good for one tenth the price..

trog

Another Strawman, Trog. The disposable ruyans are a different product, so it's apples and oranges. I'm countering your argument that a bunch of spare parts from e-cig.com is just as good as any brand name. I have proven that there are superior brands out there, specifically Janty and Njoy. E-cig.com doesn't make a disposable, so Ruyan's disposable is irrelevant.

 

[leaford]

agreed entirely.. i will trust your assessment of any new product u buy.. as to the fanboy thing.. its seems only a computer "enthusiast" will accept the term without hostility.. they make a joke of it.. i once made the mistake of using it in a pentax digital dslr camera photographic forum.. he he..

Dude, a word is what you make it. I'm a comic book fan. And when a fellow fan calls me fanboy teasingly, that's cool. WHen a fellow fan calls me a fanboy to imply that I am mindlessly pursuing my fandom without regard to quality, AS YOU ARE USING IT HERE, it pisses me off. And you know you are using it that way, you are being disingenius to deny it now. Do I need to go back and point it out?

i am also very curious which is why i know more money dosnt mean better quality.. these things do seem to have a mind of their own and have been the cause of much head scratching and theorizing in my family..

in theory a forum like this should produce all the needed knowledge.. "but the tower of babel" principle kinda messes things up big time..

the signature i have at the moment on the PC forum i have been using says..

"ignore the truth.. follow the herd you will make more friends that way and be happier"..

the one someone said i should use here goes..

"nicotine helps keep me sane and makes me more tolerant of the fools i am surrounded by..

as u see.. i set out to make friends and am the perfect forum person.. he he he

trog

ps.. i recon my favouriate other persons quote would be..

Oscar Wilde.. "apart from being right the majority is invariably wrong".. or another one of his.. "the law should be for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools"..

he did spent quite some time in jail thow.. he he..

And the purpose of these quotes? Lemme guess; I'm the one ignoring the truth, following the herd, the foll you must be tolerant of. Argumentum ad hominum. You can't refute my argument, so you have to attack me as a person. Just like calling me a fanboy.

 

[trog100]

leaford.. just show me where i personally referred to u as a fanboy.. if u want the label u can have it but i make a point of never calling any individual a fanboy.. i might make the odd reference to the existence of such.. usually if the bait is right the fish bites.. :mrgreen:

i would also like u to point to where i said an e-cig mini or classic produces as much smoke as an njoy or janty.. if u read back u will see i have given the e-cig mini 3 out of 10 as a smoke producer.. i gave the e-cig classic usb version a mediocre 6 out of ten and said i wouldnt use it even thow i have one..

as for the e-cig pipe.. i would give that ten out of ten when dripped.. 5 out of 10 when used with the cart as it should be used.. bob was correct it can be a wimp.. but then again it can be a power house..

the meltrex/pillbox generic mini 901.. at least 8 out of 10.. pretty good and in some ways the one if the pipe fails my family will go back to..

its quite pretty enough for me and relatively cheap.. he he he

when we first had a chat with pillbox.. we ask him what he thought.. he said he thought out of the ones he had the mini 901 produced the most smoke.. i think he was about right.. over the last few weeks its gone up in my estimation..

some pipe news.. the first failure.. fives day of perfect functionality and one has died six more to go.. i have ask e-cig how long i should expect them to last..

e-cig do actually check their goods before sending em out.. we have received quite few components.. unlike some names i can mention we have never received a none functioning part.. we have received some of limited functionality (the mini cig) and some with what seems a very short life span..

the cigarillo would pass any video smoke test.. plenty of that and they are all very consistent.. but the life span before failure leaves a lot to be desired..

daily bang for buck factor using the 22 dollar per day ruyan figure as a base.. dunno.. about 2 dollars so far..

the pipes work beautifully and would equal any other product i have seen.. they would pass a video test.. but again it all comes down to how long the atomizer/switch lasts on average..

quite why u think the ruyan disposable is different i dont know.. it might be sold in a more honest way but the price is way too high.. i would not doubt its functionality in any way..

one $45 disposable ruyan = 1800 puffs for me 22 dollars per day plus postage..

one nicely made e -cig pipe $45 if it lasts a week = 7 x 600 = 4200 nice puffs.. = for me just over 6 dollars per day plus postage.. or just swapping the atomizer/bowl every seven days about 2 dollars per day plus postage

just imagine a world where the e- cig pipe was sold as a semi disposables item lasting roughly 4200 puffs.. hmmm miles ahead of the cardboard and plastic ruyan offering at 1800..

just different way of describing the same thing.. i would like my pipe to come with a manual switch.. i think its the auto switch that has failed on the dead one.. a manual switch isnt a move forward from a technological point of view its a step backwards but from reliability point of view its a step forward..

trog

ps.. and leaford.. my quote post was really meant for mr darcy.. it didnt have your name on it.. there would not be much point unless i intended to personally insult u which i dont..

ps 2.. if these damn things do only last a week it just grieves me seeing such a solid well made brass and polished wood finish item thrown away every seven days.. the chinese are weird people..

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

there's too much energy going into this, guys. I read many posts from both of you and profit from them. But I'm getting dìck out of this thread. (hoping not to draw fire from this)

 

[leaford]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=322&p=2554#p2554

these things could all come from the same or similar chinese factories.. in fact i am sure they do.. who actually makes them is hard to find out.. they are simply branded products..my approach is simple.. buy cheap..

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=322&p=2559#p2559

i think the technology is basically the same whatever brand name u end up with.. its the price that differs..

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=382&p=2860#p2860

i would guess there are no more than three large chinese factories making these things.. brand names dont mean much except some come more expensive than others.. for example a ruyan e pipe costs 350 dollars.. an e-cig e pipe cost 45 dollars.. one hell of a price to pay for a brand name..

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=407&p=3231#p3231

i wonder for how long the sellers of the more expensive (guaranteed) brands will keep replacing these in essence disposable not last for very long parts for.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=453&p=4036#p4036

i see no ferraris yet bob.. just simple technology that aint quite there yet.. getting the liquid from the wet cart to the wire gauze around the heater pot consistently dosnt work properly.. hence the fact they all seem to need that wet prime and none of them work properly thru a cart..

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=525&p=5035#p5035

my "cheap" ones seem quite well made.. how about rephrasing your "cheap to expensive" to good value to rip-off.. my cheap ones seem to be made from real wood.. with nicely machined brass parts.. an atomiser that looks like any other atomizer.. the same technology is used.. the same cheap off the shelf batteries are used.. all in all i cant stretch my imagination to justify the high prices charged for some of these products.. except a higher mark up and too many people believing in the salesmans dream "u get what u pay for mantra"..

Emperor, THIS is why I keep at this debate; over and over Trog claims that they are all the same. That you get more bang for the buck from the cheapies. But they aren't all the same, and I've shown that. The danger is that newbies, who are considering trying this will decide not to if it has to be done Trog's way, by buying a lot, and throwing them away when they go bad. But they AREN'T all the same. Some DO perform better, some DO have fewer failures, and I believe time will show some DO last longer than others.

Not to say that ALL brand names are worth more, or are better than a generic. Buyer beware, as always. But at least SOME really do put more value into their product, and are worth a higher price.

Some sellers, like Meltrix, were very meticulous to pick the best available manufacturer to buy generics from, and take a lot of effort to pre-test before they ship. You get a better product for the extra money. That's not just all the same. That's not paying for the name.

Other sellers manufacturer their own. Now, we all know that they're still made in the same factories, but there's a real difference between what is made to order, and made to specific standards of acceptability to the brand's quality control inspector, versus what is made as a standard lot. And some manufacturers actually put a lot of effort and money into improving the design, like Janty and Njoy have. That's not just all the same. That's not paying for the name.

And the results show in smoke production. But now Trog wants to deny that as a standard. So just what is that "Bang," then, Trog? You say:

daily bang for buck factor using the 22 dollar per day ruyan figure as a base.. dunno.. about 2 dollars so far..

But that's not an evaluation of "Bang for the Buck", that's just "Buck Per Day". What's the Bang?

I say the bang is the smoke. The delivery of nicotine to the user. More smoke means we get a better "fix."

I say the Bang is also ease of use. A nice easy draw is better than a hard suck.

I say a brighter LED is more Bang. I say a battery that gives you 5 seconds to drag instead of 3, is more bang. I say the choice of using a manual button to better control your atomizer is more bang. I say that E-Cig.com in particular is LESS bang for your buck, no matter how many days you divide it by.

I ask you again, Trog, other than price, what way are you getting MORE BANG for your buck?

I also take exception to Trog's suggestion that the brand names won't last any longer.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=525&p=5035#p5035

what really matters with these things is how long they last.. so far the life span of any of them no matter what the cost dosnt look good..

Trog, Where's your evidence?
I admit freely, i haven't had mine long enough to really say more than that's it's lasted 3 weeks. I can't say if it'll last 6 more months, a year, or maybe not even another week. BUT NEITHER DOES HE! He makes the assumption that since all his e-cig.com have died in a matter of days or weeks that all makes and models will. I am not assuming that. I am not assuming either that brand names WILL last significantly longer than their cheaper cousins. BUT, I DO think that the evidence of present superior quality does IMPLY that they will hold up longer over time.

And, now, I am taking exception to Trog's backpedaling. Sorry Trog, but in this context, saying you weren't talking about me doesn't cut it. If not me, than who were you referring to? WHo else in this thread said anything similar, however distorted, to your smarmy paraphrases? You were referring to me, or at least to my arguments, and you are backpedaling now.

there is a heavy does of forum snobbery goes on mr darcy.. just like there is in the real world.. i get it aimed at me often.. if u didnt buy cheap mr trog you wouldnt get these problems.. brand loyalty (the computer term is fanboyism) also prevails.. buy janty mr trog stop wasting your money on cheap e-cig rubbish..

Oh, and as for this:

the cigarillo would pass any video smoke test.. plenty of that and they are all very consistent.. but the life span before failure leaves a lot to be desired..

Here's my answer to that challenge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ccQvcmo0sY

 

[B16JOP]

I only asked for advice on an e-pipe. Would you both (Trog and Leaford) please start a separate thread for your very personal and extremely uninteresting vendetta and stop hi-jacking other threads.

 

[leaford]

I only asked for advice on an e-pipe. Would you both (Trog and Leaford) please start a separate thread for your very personal and extremely uninteresting vendetta and stop hi-jacking other threads.

Ouch.

You're right. I apolagize to you and the group.

I disagreed with him, and lost sight of the line between disagreement and argument. Or, perhaps, rant.

But I still disagree and he's still wrong, so

Ok, sorry, again. I am done on the topic on this and other threads.

As to advice on a good e-pipe, I do not have personal experience, but would not recommend e-cig.com's e-pipe based on my expoerience of their other models, and the reviews I've heard from other users who tried their e-pipe, like TB.
No one here has poisted experience with the Ruyan for comparison, but a poster on a dutch forum made the following recommendations from his experience:
Copied from ecigforum.com:

[quote author=knutselpeter]The e-pipe I use (from the picture) is a DSE601 Sold by:
http://www.PartySmoker.nl € 69,50 (approx $ 109,-)
or
http://www.euro-e-cigarette.eu € 86,95 (approx $ 135,-)
both sellers in the Netherlands.

If you like i can ask them if they are able to ship it to the USA

This Pipe is much better then the e-cig.com
When you place a e-cig and this one next to each other you will not see much difference, but internal everything is better made en give much better smoke. [/quote]

 

[trog100]

well i have said what i know about e pipes.. sadly i aint compared them all side by side.. but i have pretty well describes the ones i have and how they function.. things can drift off thow.. he he

trog