Eau Claire school officials cracking down on 'Juuling'

[bombastinator]

My point is that if the change was of any practical consequence, it would dwarf those puny effects of temperature, rather than the other way around. The claim is a good example of making a pimple look like a mountain to impress the ignorant.

By the way, skin is poorly autoregulated, muscle is more so, and heart, brain and kidney are strongly autoregulated.

I reiterate my statement. If they didn’t do it the way they did the claim would be that they didn’t allow for temperature. Also you are merely implying that the changes were on the level of temperature but not stating it. It MIGHT be true, and I do concede that people have used such tactics in the past. The proof is not here though. Plus there is other evidence such as statistically significant production of underweight babies from smoking mothers. It’s imperfect because smoking and vaping are different, but nicotine has been pointed to as the factor in those instances. I’m sure we’ll have enough mothers who vape through pregnancy to do a comparison but that will take years. The best argument that can be made is that the jury is still out.

 

[stols001]

Any school in its right mind would rather have a fit about an imaginary problem (especially if they "get" something out of it, and often times they will) than address an ACTUAL problem.

Have you dealt with teen gang members? I have, on a fairly frequent basis. They are a Total Unholy Pain, and I wouldn't consider many eductators and/or administrators would have the skills to do it, especially on an aggragate basis. Good way to get maimed.

They are probably getting kickbacks for the "harm eliminationn" group, possibly Juul (for the publicity) the media attention, whatever. I guarantee though, this is not emittiing from the goodness of their hearts or a desire to save the children, etc. It's easy to "afddress" an imaginary or really trivial problem rather than a real one.

If I were a principal in a school I'd put them all on a token economy and then hire a protective detail for my family and self. LOL. That's a lot more expensive and "work like" than freaking... dealing with the imaginary "Juul" problem.

Just imagine the (gang) parents that woudl arrive, to hear about the "gang problem" in teens. . I would not care to hold that "conference" honestly. Not until they arm the teachers which, like, I am also somewhat in favor of (just not the burnt OUT teachers, LOL).

Anna

 

[Rossum]

Looks like they're having hissy fits in Milwaukee, too. Don't they have more important stuff to worry about, such as gangs?
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...g-fad-taking-over-school-bathrooms/378192002/

Quotes from this article:

Most other e-cigarettes and vapes contain anywhere from 0.03% to 0.12% nicotine.

No, not the small form factor stuff sold in convenience stores like the Juul. Some of the other brands of cig-a-likes contain up to 48 mg of nic, in other words, comparable levels to the Juul.

Kamara estimated that 35% of her classmates use the product daily.

Whether this is realistic depends on what kind of classes she's in. In the non-academic oriented classes, I could see it, but as a figure that's representative of the entire student population at a high school? I really doubt it.

“People don’t think of it the same as smoking a cigarette.”

It isn't.

“They (JUUL users) think it’s better than smoking weed or cigarettes.”

I'm confident it is.

 

[marianna]

Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. It makes blood vessels smaller.

So, nicotine patches and nicotine gums are also vasoconstrictors ?

 

[bombastinator]

So, nicotine patches and nicotine gums are also vasoconstrictors ?

In theory. NOW, if doctors are suggesting them for pregnant women (I don’t think they do but I could be wrong) it implies that the vasoconstrictor capacity of nicotine is limited or negligible. That or the doctor didn’t know. THAT would be a good indicator which it seems we are short of

 

[stols001]

I think many Obs are recommending nicotine replacement for pregnant mothers who are smokers these days. I don't know if they recommend vaping or not.

I'd have to think that nicotine alone would be less harmful for a gestating fetus than smoking cigarettes, although I actually haven't seen any studies about it (although I have not looiked). It would be a good indicator if such a study were done, although I'm not sure it can be done, ethically, since it might "affect" a person's desire to quit or not. (I'm kind of thinking young, pregnant person who is a smoker, placed in a control group, etc.) Maybe there's someone collecting aggregate data.... Wait,the NIH did one:

Nicotine Gum for Pregnant Smokers: A Randomized Controlled Trial

Basically, there were statistically significant differences between neonatal scores and birth weight and maybe gestational length, the non-smoking moms were more likely to stay in the study, and slightly more likely to quit NRT altogether, were some of the main conclusions. I think. Need more coffee.

Anna

 

[CarolT]

I think the biggest complaint against the Juul is that, while they claim the nicotine levels are almost as high as with a tobacco cigarette, the actual measured levels are just slightly higher than with e-cigs.

 

[bombastinator]

I think many Obs are recommending nicotine replacement for pregnant mothers who are smokers these days. I don't know if they recommend vaping or not.

I'd have to think that nicotine alone would be less harmful for a gestating fetus than smoking cigarettes, although I actually haven't seen any studies about it (although I have not looiked). It would be a good indicator if such a study were done, although I'm not sure it can be done, ethically, since it might "affect" a person's desire to quit or not. (I'm kind of thinking young, pregnant person who is a smoker, placed in a control group, etc.) Maybe there's someone collecting aggregate data.... Wait,the NIH did one:

Nicotine Gum for Pregnant Smokers: A Randomized Controlled Trial

Basically, there were statistically significant differences between neonatal scores and birth weight and maybe gestational length, the non-smoking moms were more likely to stay in the study, and slightly more likely to quit NRT altogether, were some of the main conclusions. I think. Need more coffee.

Anna

Study seems to me to imply that NRT which vaping qualifies as is much better than smoking during pregnancy. Interesting.

 

[CarolT]

From that study:

Conclusion
Despite not reducing smoking during pregnancy, use of nicotine gum increased birth weight and gestational age, two key parameters in predicting neonatal wellbeing.

Yuk. I don't like gum. Gum of any kind makes my stomach upset.

 

[bombastinator]

I think the biggest complaint against the Juul is that, while they claim the nicotine levels are almost as high as with a tobacco cigarette, the actual measured levels are just slightly higher than with e-cigs.

i was under the impression they were much much higher, what with the 70mg juice and all. I am intrigued. Got data?

 

[bombastinator]

From that study:

Conclusion
Despite not reducing smoking during pregnancy, use of nicotine gum increased birth weight and gestational age, two key parameters in predicting neonatal wellbeing.

Yuk. I don't like gum. Gum of any kind makes my stomach upset.

I suspect NRT is NRT, be it patch, gum or vaping. No actual data of course.

 

[Rossum]

i was under the impression they were much much higher, what with the 70mg juice and all. I am intrigued. Got data?

Where do you get this notion that Juul uses 70 mg liquid? Go check their site and literature. It's 5% by weight, so just slightly over 50 mg/ml.

 

[stols001]

I would tend to agree. . They did use the lower strength 2 m.g. nicotine gum, although I didn't see anywhere if they measuered how much of it people were chewing.

To me, nicotine is nicotine and based on that study, it woudl seem that vaping would be far safer than smoking, although it might be useful to see if there was any kind of dose dependent relationship.

I would imagine that vaping pregnant women are subjected to the same type of scrutiny and disgust as I was subjected to pregnant if I drank a non-alcoholic beer, which, I think I would've had to drink about 30 of them all at once (probably not even possible, volume wise) for it to have ANY effect whatsoever. (I will admit, I kinda DID enjoy the "looks" if I drank a non-alcoholic beer at the time but I was considerably more rebellious now than I was then.)

I would choose vaping over other nictoine replacemen, personally. But, I may look for a few more studies (later) this one was kind of intriguing.

Anna

 

[bombastinator]

Where do you get this notion that Juul uses 70 mg liquid? Go check their site and I forget. Well, this site obviously, but I forget where. If you’ve got better data, you’ve got better data. I’m not sure it materially affects things though. It’s still twice the standard dose for a new heavy smoker using a mtl device. Have there been people who started at 48? Sure I suppose. .5% perhaps or less. 16mg is enough to knock me on my .... these days and I’m resistant enough to nicotine to not bother with gloves when I mix juice.

You know, I forget exactly. It was a thread on this forum, that I know. I vaguely recall there being something about how the ratio of salts vs nic is not one to one for some reason or other. I can’t point it out though so I’m happy to go with your number. I don’t think it materially changes the point. 50mg nic is still twice what I remember being the recommended concentration for a new vaper who smoked more than a pack a day trying to get off cigarettes using a cigalike device.

 

[CarolT]

i was under the impression they were much much higher, what with the 70mg juice and all. I am intrigued. Got data?

JUUL E-Cigarette Review: Small E-Cig With a Big Nicotine Hit - eCig One

 

[CarolT]

I reiterate my statement. If they didn’t do it the way they did the claim would be that they didn’t allow for temperature. Also you are merely implying that the changes were on the level of temperature but not stating it.

You're missing the real implication of their test protocol, namely that what they're seeking to measure is so puny that they can't even allow the subjects to move or they'll blow it all up. It is teensy-tiny and overwhelmed by normal endogenous and exogenous influences.

 

[bombastinator]

I think the biggest complaint against the Juul is that, while they claim the nicotine levels are almost as high as with a tobacco cigarette, the actual measured levels are just slightly higher than with e-cigs.

Thanks for the article reading it there is a graph half way down which is quite disturbing to me. The device they did testing on is not the one they are marketing. The “commercial” version is three times as potent as the tested one and has a sharper peak than an analog.

If memory serves drugs with short sharp euphoria peaks are more addictive. Crack for example is a ....... lake. The drug is exactly the same, it’s just coated around soda(?) particles in much the same fashion as an artificial dye is turned into a paint (Its a weird analogy, but I went to art school. This is how it made sense to me). What this does is make the entire dose flash off at once then disappear. Making a sharper angle on the graph. The fact that the change was made between approval and marketing imho looks like evidence that it was designed to addict.

 

[bombastinator]

You're missing the real implication of their test protocol, namely that what they're seeking to measure is so puny that they can't even allow the subjects to move or they'll blow it all up. It is teensy-tiny and overwhelmed by normal endogenous and exogenous influences.

This is possible. However possibility is not fact. I do concede you may be correct though. Scientific tests are generally performed with the greatest degree of accuracy possible, no matter what load they are testing. For example wing stress tests on commercial aircraft are measured to the gram even though the total number is in metric tons. (This comes from a memory of a documentary of the process I watched. They actually bent the wing till it snapped in half. The break point was also within an inch of where the engineers predicted it would happen

 

[marianna]

In theory.

I don't think nic-patches and nic-gums are vasoconstrictors, unless someone likes to smoke those things.

 

[marianna]

Yuk. I don't like gum. Gum of any kind makes my stomach upset.

The intention is to spit out the nicotine gum after use, not to swallow it