i did harmony just not real sure what to say
but i'll give you 2 thumbs up because i agree whole heartedly!ECA vs FDA
- Thread starter Txrider
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
-
- Tags
- myvaporstore
- Status
i did harmony just not real sure what to say
but i'll give you 2 thumbs up because i agree whole heartedly!
It was a good post, Harmony. But it didn't shout rah-rah, or sue the FDA, or it's-my-body-and-I'll-do-what-I-want-to, so most posters ignored the truths in it. Realty has fled many, many threads here. It's less and less enlightening to visit ECF and I am bummed at the decline of intelligent discussions that I've seen since January 2008. Very depressing.
If I don't like it, get ... yeh, I know. I do visit less and less these days. And the most intelligent posters of the past have long since given up visiting here. I really miss their input instead of the silly and ignorant screams that get posted now.
Rants will only harden opposition -- but those are the posts of choice now.
If I don't like it, get ... yeh, I know. I do visit less and less these days. And the most intelligent posters of the past have long since given up visiting here. I really miss their input instead of the silly and ignorant screams that get posted now.
Rants will only harden opposition -- but those are the posts of choice now.
I humbly disagree with naysayers and agree with Harmony...the FDA had to take this stance because the e-cig was not submitted for pre-approval for sale on the US market. Prior to HR1256 being signed into law the FDA did not act against the e-cig for a few years. Once health claims were made...the FDA's hands were tied, they had to pre-empt and mandate that all manufacturers were to submit their package for approval. None has that I'm aware of.
Just as entry in to college requires jumping thru hoops and clearing red tape...so does the e-cig for marketing approval. I believe the product will be a go if the proper steps the FDA has been literally begging for are completed. But I'm an optimist. The manufacturers/suppliers have had a good run under radar for a few years...now one has to pay the piper for the marketing strategy of a few.
Just as entry in to college requires jumping thru hoops and clearing red tape...so does the e-cig for marketing approval. I believe the product will be a go if the proper steps the FDA has been literally begging for are completed. But I'm an optimist. The manufacturers/suppliers have had a good run under radar for a few years...now one has to pay the piper for the marketing strategy of a few.
Last edited:
Right to Vape is activist forum for e-cigarettes. Right now we've been organizing it to set it on right track. But it's a very slow board because like you said we just don't have enough posters wanting to have intelligent discussions. I'd love to see your posts over there whenever you can. I have started a thread called "The Technofogger Tarot in the making" in the Wholey of the Technofoggers forum that you might find interesting because a traditional fool gets renamed to smoker (represents the beginning of a journey to e-cigs) ... the chariot (control) has been renamed to FDA ... etc. It's all based on e-cigarette activism. righttovape.com
Bryn: I'm comfortable with my decision to use an e-cig. I own many and use them daily. I bought and received my first in January 2008. But I'm not comfortable advocating their use by others who have not researched the products and understand the unknowns that exist. We are not doing something without risk. We just don't understand the severity or extent of the risks we are taking. That's fine by me.
I was an early poster at Right to Vape (a misnomer name if ever one existed). But I bowed out by saying that if I do something wrong and die, then it's my bad. If I tell others to do something and they die, then it's my crime for as long as I live.
I will preach e-smoking from the rooftops -- when the facts come in and the products are approved. Until then, we have a theory that e-smoking is safer and healthier than tobacco smoking. We have a theory that it can save lives by getting many smokers off tobacco cigarettes for good.
Now let's prove those theories. But until that's done, I have trouble advocating theory as fact to others.
I hope that makes sense to you. I mean it from my heart, and fear life without e-cigs will be terribly difficult for me.
I was an early poster at Right to Vape (a misnomer name if ever one existed). But I bowed out by saying that if I do something wrong and die, then it's my bad. If I tell others to do something and they die, then it's my crime for as long as I live.
I will preach e-smoking from the rooftops -- when the facts come in and the products are approved. Until then, we have a theory that e-smoking is safer and healthier than tobacco smoking. We have a theory that it can save lives by getting many smokers off tobacco cigarettes for good.
Now let's prove those theories. But until that's done, I have trouble advocating theory as fact to others.
I hope that makes sense to you. I mean it from my heart, and fear life without e-cigs will be terribly difficult for me.
I am comfortable with e-cigs like you are. I can't speak for others, so I can only speak for myself that ever since I started e-cigs & stopped smoking I feel so much better ... I listen to my body, it thanks me.
I noticed you're from Port Charlotte, FL. How did you make it out with Hurricane Charley or Charlie? Too many hurricanes for me to keep up! I am from Florida, moved to Arkansas 3 years ago. Yeah, I feel like a fish out of water.
Well, do stop by RTV sometime ...
I noticed you're from Port Charlotte, FL. How did you make it out with Hurricane Charley or Charlie? Too many hurricanes for me to keep up! I am from Florida, moved to Arkansas 3 years ago. Yeah, I feel like a fish out of water.
Well, do stop by RTV sometime ...
Thanks everyone,,, I still think the basic question to pose to the FDA is,,, what level of safety are you seeking to gain approval??
This will force the FDA to admit that vaping CAN be made safe. We have had statements from the FDA that say it could "maybe" be a safer product, and if we can focus on that,, we force them to our side.
We need to hammer that point, over and over,,,, let's make it safe,,, let's lower health care costs of nicotine addicts, let's save lives, we need to be proactive by framing the question on the positive outcome of developing a safer product.
If all we do is call the FDA names, we'll lose. If we can get them to work with us on a safer alternative,,, everyone wins.
So I suppose everyone will say,,, oh that Harmony,,, what a dreamer,,, guilty!!
This will force the FDA to admit that vaping CAN be made safe. We have had statements from the FDA that say it could "maybe" be a safer product, and if we can focus on that,, we force them to our side.
We need to hammer that point, over and over,,,, let's make it safe,,, let's lower health care costs of nicotine addicts, let's save lives, we need to be proactive by framing the question on the positive outcome of developing a safer product.
If all we do is call the FDA names, we'll lose. If we can get them to work with us on a safer alternative,,, everyone wins.
So I suppose everyone will say,,, oh that Harmony,,, what a dreamer,,, guilty!!
We will also need to make sure they won't regulate it as medical device/smoking cessation, turns it over to Big Pharma as a gift. I would hate having to buy e-cig/eliquid at drug stores with dr.'s RX ... for much higher price.
Don't give up, though, dreamer
I won't neither.
We will also need to make sure they won't regulate it as medical device/smoking cessation, turns it over to Big Pharma as a gift. I would hate having to buy e-cig/eliquid at drug stores with dr.'s RX ... for much higher price.
Don't give up, though, dreamer
Keep hope alive!!
YouTube - Supertramp - Dreamer (live 1974)
You know, when I ran forums way back in the day, I learned something very important...without those "rah rah" people who are looking for arguments, venting, and other passionate items, a forum sits idle and dies. Sex and violence sell....e-Sex and e-Violence sells as well.
People do not visit forums, increase post counts, and increase the popularity of an online community if drama is not present. That's the way it is...and if you look at your local bar, the same rings true there. Hell, even bowling leagues require the drama aspect or they get boring and disappear.
Basically, if people were all intelligent and peaceful, the excitement in life would disappear and life's meaning would vanish. Passion is never a cup of warm apple cider sitting by a cozy fireplace...it's more like a bottle of tequila in front of a roarin' bonfire.
Bob, we are not encouraging people to use an e-cigarette, we are at most wanting to keep the concept alive and demanding more SAFETY, everybody knows that more investigation is needed, we are organizing to demand everybody involved on the e-cigarette world to make this practice as safe as possible including the manufacturers, FDA, ECA, etc. Maybe you misunderstood the concept of right to vape.
What is clear to me is that the FDA have vested interests on this issue and public health is not their main concern, everybody can see the way their made public the report they conducted and that is not fair niether, scaring people is just as bad as using diethylenglycol in e-liquids.
I think you made some very valid points Harmony. The approach rests well w/me. We need a organized concerted effort where everyone works for the good of community. It could have a big impact if put together properly. Your 2 cents makes cents to me.
That's an important point, Lith,,,, of course TB is a most ethical man. We all admire him for that!! He had to adjust to the disappointment we all felt that the manufacturers created a situation that played right into the hands of these powerful forces,,, and made the mountain we must climb that much higher. Of course I shouldn't presume to speak for him,,, but that's my read on it.
If a safe alternative is possible,,, bring it on!! We have enough good information to show a safe product is possible, and I think the fact that the FDA and the Anti smoking groups have acknowledged that,,, we have a crack we can drive the wedge in, and pang thier consciences to work to make vaping safe, and encouraging smokers to adapt it. We're still dreaming Bryn...
Thanks Aspen
Here's to a long happy vaping life for all of us!!
Last edited:
My beef with the FDA is this. We all know that the analog is an unsafe product. There are many poisons in a analog. Yes test the e cig and find out just how "harmfull" it is for us. Then make a decesion. I agree with harmony about them turning it into a smoking cescaion product, that would make it either smoke or see a doctor to vape. I think vapeing is the best thing in the world and I would rather vape than smoke another cig for the rest of my life. Thats my opnion, I could be wrong
I agree t the fact that the ECA is just getting money if they dont wake up and get off there ...'s soon the results will be tragic.
Hi TB,
Unfortunately your right. The amount of hostility and bickering here, and the in your face aggresive posts is certaintly not helping the e-cig cause or this forum, and has really turned me off coming here as often or contributing. I remember when I first discovered this forum how exciting and pleasurable it was to come here and exchange stories and ideas. Sadly that's no longer the case.
Regards,
Mark
QUOTE=TropicalBob;486548]It was a good post, Harmony. But it didn't shout rah-rah, or sue the FDA, or it's-my-body-and-I'll-do-what-I-want-to, so most posters ignored the truths in it. Realty has fled many, many threads here. It's less and less enlightening to visit ECF and I am bummed at the decline of intelligent discussions that I've seen since January 2008. Very depressing.
If I don't like it, get ... yeh, I know. I do visit less and less these days. And the most intelligent posters of the past have long since given up visiting here. I really miss their input instead of the silly and ignorant screams that get posted now.
Rants will only harden opposition -- but those are the posts of choice now.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately your right. The amount of hostility and bickering here, and the in your face aggresive posts is certaintly not helping the e-cig cause or this forum, and has really turned me off coming here as often or contributing. I remember when I first discovered this forum how exciting and pleasurable it was to come here and exchange stories and ideas. Sadly that's no longer the case.
Regards,
Mark
QUOTE=TropicalBob;486548]It was a good post, Harmony. But it didn't shout rah-rah, or sue the FDA, or it's-my-body-and-I'll-do-what-I-want-to, so most posters ignored the truths in it. Realty has fled many, many threads here. It's less and less enlightening to visit ECF and I am bummed at the decline of intelligent discussions that I've seen since January 2008. Very depressing.
If I don't like it, get ... yeh, I know. I do visit less and less these days. And the most intelligent posters of the past have long since given up visiting here. I really miss their input instead of the silly and ignorant screams that get posted now.
Rants will only harden opposition -- but those are the posts of choice now.[/QUOTE]
Good to read you again, Mark. So many knowledgeable and intelligent e-cig users have fled this place due to the level of hostility and ignorance from people who slept through Social Studies in high school. Good luck with whatever lies ahead.
- Status
