editors question truth of studies

[Caro123]

while not directly related to ecigs I do believe it is interesting
Medical insider: "science has taken a turn towards darkness" -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net

 

[WattWick]

It's good for the economy, no?

(Thanks for the link! Excellent read.)

 

[LilWhiteClouder]

It is amazing what big pharma will do to keep their profits piling up. Thanks for the heads up. Really good article, hopefully it'll open some peoples eyes.

 

[roxynoodle]

Scary for us though as consumers/ patients. Many FDA approved medications that supposedly went through rigorous testing have harmed and killed people.

 

[DC2]

Big Pharma is pretty much a runaway freight train.
And they will only get stronger as the population ages.

 

[sacullen]

Don't believe for a second this is limited to the pharmaceutical industry.

 

[Thrasher]

Scary for us though as consumers/ patients. Many FDA approved medications that supposedly went through rigorous testing have harmed and killed people.

Always remember the testing and results data must be supplied to the fda by the company asking for approval. Contrary to popular belief the fda does no actual testing itself, its just a regulatory agency that reviews the data submitted. So test results are always skewed with best case results.


This is why a "promising" medication ends up being pulled after uncontrolled use by the masses reveal problems.

 

[roxynoodle]

Always remember the testing and results data must be supplied to the fda by the company asking for approval. Contrary to popular belief the fda does no actual testing itself, its just a regulatory agency that reviews the data submitted. So test results are always skewed with best case results.

Exactly right.

 

[caramel]

Mentioning NEJM? The formaldehyde guys? lol.

 

[tj99959]

However the only solution would be comprehensive peer review requiring more extensive tasting than the original study.

 

[Racehorse]

Many FDA approved medications that supposedly went through rigorous testing have harmed and killed people.

What is the % of people who DON'T die or get harmed from pharmaceuticals?


Yes, some people do drop dead from taking "1" FDA approved penicillan tablet.

There will always be a % of the population who will not tolerate a medication.

Keep in mind there are millions (and probably billions) of people taking pharmaceuticals who are greatly helped and probably staying alive due to the meds.

Early chemo drugs were also pretty harsh....but it was either that, or do nothing. It was all we had. Trying to kill cancer cells is not an exact science.

I took Chantix and got off cigs (way before ecigs were available) for 5+ years, and had absolutely no side effects. Wellbutrin, however, made me hallucinate. Yet my obgyn/gyne says that wellbutrin is an older and very well tolerated drug, and can even be taken by pregnant women for anti depressant.

They say the same thing about erythromycin.......one of oldest antibiotics and I am one of few people I've ever heard of who is allergic to it.

Sorry, but I'm not going to paint the entire pharma and fda with a broad brush just because they havent' gotten it right yet with vaping.

 

[EBates]

However the only solution would be comprehensive peer review requiring more extensive tasting than the original study.

The bad part of that is that since the Inmates Run The Asylum, would a different group of 'Medical Business' reviewers change the outcome. The Supplier (BP) and the Pusher (Dr) and the FDA have to make a Buck or the whole business goes belly up

 

[VHRB2014]

What with our ultra-modern standards, our scientific approach to everything, we are perhaps not well equipped to apply the powers of good that lie out side our synthetic knowledge.- The Big Book, The Doctor's Opinion, p.xxvii

 

[jaytex1969]

Sorry, but I'm not going to paint the entire pharma and fda with a broad brush just because they havent' gotten it right yet with vaping.

This is the editor of the Lancet making this statement, not some crackpot seeking a spotlight. This is way beyond not getting it right on one issue:

"To state the point in other words, Horton states bluntly that major pharmaceutical companies falsify or manipulate tests on the health, safety and effectiveness of their various drugs by taking samples too small to be statistically meaningful or hiring test labs or scientists where the lab or scientist has blatant conflicts of interest such as pleasing the drug company to get further grants. At least half of all such tests are worthless or worse he claims. As the drugs have a major effect on the health of millions of consumers, the manipulation amounts to criminal dereliction and malfeasance."


Jay

 

[DC2]

Dr. Marcia Angell is a physician and was longtime Editor-in-Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), considered to be another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world. Angell stated,

"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine."

 

[Racehorse]

This is the editor of the Lancet making this statement, not some crackpot seeking a spotlight. This is way beyond not getting it right on one issue

Perhaps you misunderstood. The editor of Lancet gave his opinion. I gave mine. Hope that is okay.

As you may or may not know, Horton hasn't exactly been kind to ecig, and has run into problems w/orgs like ACSH for instance, which does not support government efforts to ban the use of e-cigarettes
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61470-7/fulltext
Lancet asks if e-cigarettes are a “smokescreen.” We ask, why is Horton still working there? - American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)

I'm not gonna knee jerk every time somebody writes something positive or negative about ecigs, the FDA, Big Pharma, etc.

I am not an anti-vaccer either and Horton certainly was and caused quite a lot of anti vaccine hysteria worldwide before he retracted his statements later.

So Horton writes something against the FDA and because the FDA is against ecigs, oh yeah, knee jerk time.....let's all board Horton's bus.

I'm saying pharamaceuticals have a place, the FDA has a place, just as ecigs have a place.

I'm not an extremist, recognize that each industry HAS PROBLEMS that need to be solved, things that could and should be done better, etc.


One of quotes from the article: "Lancet's Dr. Horton concludes, "Those who have the power to act seem to think somebody else should act first.The good news is that science is beginning to take some of its worst failings very seriously. The bad news is that nobody is ready to take the first step to clean up the system"

Gee, why does this remind me of all the ejuice makers who said their eliquids have no diketones, then Dr. F. did a study and over 74% of the ones tested had diketones? And then some of them even lied about the tests (Suicide Bunny). For quite a while, MOV and a few others were the only ones to test and publish .... taking steps to clean up their own system....

IMHO, maybe we should concentrate on improving our own industry before pointing fingers at how messed up all the other industries are? The better we do the less ammunition our enemies will have to criticize.

 

[jaytex1969]

I would expect anyone in the medical industry to oppose the inhalation of anything not prescribed to address a particular ailment.

Everyone is, of course, entitled to an opinion and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

The statements by Dr. Horton are not directed at vaping at all (in this case). They are an "insider's" assessment of a field by a well informed leader in that field and bear more weight (to me) than all the belly aching we do as low information (by comparison) outsiders.

Every field has its problems but when someone at the top of a field reports that half of the health and safety tests are crap, I consider it remarkable.

If one of you tells me that Windows 10K sucks, I'll likely relegate it to opinion and preference. If King Bill himself says it, I'll give it much greater consideration.

I certainly agree with you that with medicine, e-juice and just about every other area, the greatest problem lies here:

"somebody else should act first".

May we all learn to become First Actors!


Jay

 

[skoony]

Perhaps you misunderstood. The editor of Lancet gave his opinion. I gave mine. Hope that is okay.

As you may or may not know, Horton hasn't exactly been kind to ecig, and has run into problems w/orgs like ACSH for instance, which does not support government efforts to ban the use of e-cigarettes
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61470-7/fulltext
Lancet asks if e-cigarettes are a “smokescreen.” We ask, why is Horton still working there? - American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)

I'm not gonna knee jerk every time somebody writes something positive or negative about ecigs, the FDA, Big Pharma, etc.

I am not an anti-vaccer either and Horton certainly was and caused quite a lot of anti vaccine hysteria worldwide before he retracted his statements later.

So Horton writes something against the FDA and because the FDA is against ecigs, oh yeah, knee jerk time.....let's all board Horton's bus.

I'm saying pharamaceuticals have a place, the FDA has a place, just as ecigs have a place.

I'm not an extremist, recognize that each industry HAS PROBLEMS that need to be solved, things that could and should be done better, etc.


One of quotes from the article: "Lancet's Dr. Horton concludes, "Those who have the power to act seem to think somebody else should act first.The good news is that science is beginning to take some of its worst failings very seriously. The bad news is that nobody is ready to take the first step to clean up the system"

Gee, why does this remind me of all the ejuice makers who said their eliquids have no diketones, then Dr. F. did a study and over 74% of the ones tested had diketones? And then some of them even lied about the tests (Suicide Bunny). For quite a while, MOV and a few others were the only ones to test and publish .... taking steps to clean up their own system....

IMHO, maybe we should concentrate on improving our own industry before pointing fingers at how messed up all the other industries are? The better we do the less ammunition our enemies will have to criticize.

and your point is?
regards
mike

 

[Robino1]

Moved to Media and General News from General Vaping Discussion

 

[Racehorse]

and your point is?
regards
mike

..... that his anti-vaccine debacle is an example of "science turning toward the darkness", which he claims to revile.

I do agree with Dr. Horton about taking samples too small to be statistically meaningful. I see people jumping up and down citing studies that have (ridiculously) small sample sizes, claiming that something has been "proven", when the inferences can't even be assigned significant relevance.


The sott.net site where the article lives is interesting though. An article on the same site:
Big Food: Kicking, screaming, and losing lots of money -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net

How people who are thoughtful about what they put into their bodies are painted as "ridiculous". Big Food wants to keep people eating what they are selling.......stuff that may be harmful but puts $$ in their pockets.


"Expect to continue to see the escalation of propaganda that scoffs at healthy eaters" (thank you, I already have).