eJuice safety - Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl in Popular Brands...

[mr.fabe]

I just saw this in Reddit. It appears that some ejuice suppliers may not be aware or have been less than truthful about the Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl in their juices. Vaporshark sent all the eJuices they carry to an independent lab for testing and if your favorite ejuice is carried by them, you can see the report by clicking on the individual ejuice. Pretty impressive for a company like Vaporshark spending dollars to have the testing done.


User burnt_wick reported the following..

You can read the thread in its entirety here
vaporshark sent every e-liquid that they carry and had them tested for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. Some of the results came back EXTREMELY high. Some liquids tested positive from companies who have been saying their liquid was free of DA and AP. All test results are now on their website. : electronic_cigarette

 

[BigEgo]

Yes, been following and posting to that reddit thread. Sadly, I don't think any testing will make any difference as the vast majority of vapers will simply plug their ears and sing la la la la.

 

[mr.fabe]

Yes, been following and posting to that reddit thread. Sadly, I don't think any testing will make any difference as the vast majority of vapers will simply plug their ears and sing la la la la.

It's just that type of complacent attitude that makes me feel some type of regulation is needed to protect the consumer. Unless there is something in place, some eJuice makers will take the low road to maximize their profits and not be concerned for the user's safety or health until someone suffers dearly and starts suing.

 

[Jorge22]

I'd already seen that (thanks, anyway) and I only wish they had tested the few brands I always get back to -

Halo, House of Liquid and Joyetech (just a couple of flavours). I don't think they'd have had to add Bucky Juice and the Portuguese 4Vapor as, for all I know and taking into account they use Flavourart's flavours, which are supposed to be free of all that, there would have been no real need

- but unfortunately they didn't...

 

[ImThatGuy]

That reddit report is from here

That test is biased. Vapor Shark provided the test. Vapor Shark liquids (all) are ND (non detect).

But most of the competition has something.

Marketing at its finest.

 

[mr.fabe]

Good point. Once you look at the report it definitely highlights the bias. Even though it shows VS juices with all the ND's, I would rather switch to making my own or searching for a new supplier before I would ever consider their brand of eJuice.
Thank you for the original report!

 

[scrabble]

That reddit report is from here

That test is biased. Vapor Shark provided the test. Vapor Shark liquids (all) are ND (non detect).

But most of the competition has something.

Marketing at its finest.

Thanks for posting that report. I see what you mean about Vapor Shark's bias but I do want to point out that like Vapor Shark, both NicVape Wildside and NJOY Artist Colection (they've misspelled collection) have nothing to report. It is very interesting to see that Vapor Shark reports nothing but it could be the truth. It's possible.

Anyhow, I'm not comfortable with the fact that a lot of unknown-to-me brands were tested but gas station / convenience store brands weren't tested and aren't on the list. It's almost like there are two vaping communities: e-cig users & easy access liquids and mod users & artisan liquids.

All the brands of liquids I use or have used aren't on the list.

 

[Racehorse]

That test is biased. Vapor Shark provided the test. Vapor Shark liquids (all) are ND (non detect).

But most of the competition has something.

I guess it hasn't occurred to you that many eliquid makers got on the ball after Dr. F's testing WAY BACK in 2014 showed high AP and DA levels in over 70% of eliquids.

There are lists of vendors who reformulated and haven't sold AP/DA laden ejuices for quite some time now. There are many topics on this.

So, here it is 2015, and instead of applauding those who believe (as Dr. F. does) that AP and DA have no place in eliquids (the acceptable exposure rate is zero)

......they will now be villanized for getting a move on, spending the money, revamping their products, paying for testing, and providing transparency to their customers who are paying for the products.



Apparently, there are people who don't understand the difference between bias and actually doing the work to show that you are meeting your goal, i.e. are selling and making what you said you wanted to sell and make.

Guess somebody should give a head's up to Linda over at TPA, Flavour Arts, Mountain Oaks Vapor, Baker White, and all the vendors who are doing their level best to reformulate and trying to provide the healthiest products for us........that they are biased and just engaging in a marketing scheme.

All the brands of liquids I use or have used aren't on the list.

That's because Vaporshark doesn't sell them. Therefore, they have no responsibility to test other vendor's juices.

You do realize that Vaporshark tested only brands from other vendors that they SELL? They obviously don't want to carry eliquids that have high AP and DA levels. That is not the company they want to be.

 

[scrabble]

I guess it hasn't occurred to you that many eliquid makers got on the ball after Dr. F's testing WAY BACK in 2014 showed high AP and DA levels in over 70% of eliquids.

There are lists of vendors who reformulated and haven't sold AP/DA laden ejuices for quite some time now. There are many topics on this.

So, here it is 2015, and instead of applauding those who believe (as Dr. F. does) that AP and DA have no place in eliquids (the acceptable exposure rate is zero)

......they will now be villanized for getting a move on, spending the money, revamping their products, paying for testing, and providing transparency to their customers who are paying for the products.



Apparently, there are people who don't understand the difference between bias and actually doing the work to show that you are meeting your goal, i.e. are selling and making what you said you wanted to sell and make.

That's understandable but my only qualm is that if what you said is the case with Vapor Shark, then the report we're looking at is a second report. It means that he would have had bad liquids, knew that, changed them, then retested to show the results. I'd like to see Vapor Shark's original formulas and test reports.

Or, Vapor Shark was always on the ball, as you say. In other words, never had contaminated liquids at all.

 

[Racehorse]

Or, Vapor Shark was always on the ball, as you say. In other words, never had contaminated liquids at all.

I should not have used the "always" word. My post should have read "got on the ball as knowledge was made available to them" is what I should have written.

Good companies are flexible and change as new information comes out.

Back in 2011, we didn't have the studies we have now. Although people were posting about it back then.

Flavour Arts was probably just getting started with their tests, about 2 years ago the clearstream study was published (around 9/2012). I don't know when Linda over at TPA/TFA was researching reformulating ...you would have to ask her. I remember when MOV changed their vanilla dream when it became known to them that the flavoring they were using contained high amounts of DA and AP.

Not sure what you mean by "never had contaminated liquids at all." After the 2014 study came out, where 70%+ eliquids that were tested (and no names given). All those companies have now had well over a year to "step up."

Which ones did, and which ones didn't.

There is certainly a time before 2012 and even before 2014 where many liquids were probably "contaminated" because the information about the flavorings wasn't even done or out yet.

So let me say (again) that "always" on the ball should have read "got on the ball as knowledge was made available to them" is what I should have written.

 

[scrabble]

I should not have used the "always" word. My post should have read "got on the ball as knowledge was made available to them" is what I should have written.

Good companies are flexible and change as new information comes out.

Back in 2011, we didn't have the studies we have now. Although people were posting about it back then.

Flavour Arts was probably just getting started with their tests, about 2 years ago the clearstream study was published (around 9/2012). I don't know when Linda over at TPA/TFA was researching reformulating ...you would have to ask her. I remember when MOV changed their vanilla dream when it became known to them that the flavoring they were using contained high amounts of DA and AP.

Not sure what you mean by "never had contaminated liquids at all." After the 2014 study came out, where 70%+ eliquids that were tested (and no names given). All those companies have now had well over a year to "step up."

Which ones did, and which ones didn't.

There is certainly a time before 2012 and even before 2014 where many liquids were probably "contaminated" because the information about the flavorings wasn't even done or out yet.

So let me say (again) that "always" on the ball should have read "got on the ball as knowledge was made available to them" is what I should have written.

You didn't use the word always. I did, that was my lazy speech. I blended my word with your quote. What I meant was that instead of getting on the ball (what you said) he was always on the ball (never had contaminated liquids).

It is very interesting. Did Vapor Shark's liquids ever test positive? If so, he knew that and changed the liquids. And that's why we're seeing his liquids as totally clean in that report. That would definitely be a bias because he shows his liquids as clean while the majority of others are dirty. But if his liquids were always clean, then it wouldn't be a bias.

 

[ManiacMedic]

This is interesting. Because I'm having breathing problems and my favorite juices were:
Cosmic fog- Nutz
Cosmic fog- Milk and Honey
Cuttwood- Unicorn Milk
Omega Vape- Chronos

 

[scrabble]

This is interesting. Because I'm having breathing problems and my favorite juices were:
Cosmic fog- Nutz
Cosmic fog- Milk and Honey
Cuttwood- Unicorn Milk
Omega Vape- Chronos

I don't like that you have breathing problems but I appreciate, a lot, when people are honest about what they experience while vaping. I truly believe that even though we don't always have something good to report, it can only lead to improvements. Thanks for commenting - it helps me to be more cautious about what liquids I'll use.

 

[ImThatGuy]

That's because Vaporshark doesn't sell them. Therefore, they have no responsibility to test other vendor's juices.

You do realize that Vaporshark tested only brands from other vendors that they SELL? They obviously don't want to carry eliquids that have high AP and DA levels. That is not the company they want to be.

Okay you lost me here... The juice vendors listed are what they sell. So, you're saying that from the test, VS will stop selling these high AP and DA juices? Because I don't know what the reason behind the testing was, but from the results I can derive reason and motive; VS juices have minimal (ND) AP and DA levels compared to the other juices in our store. So, buy our juice.

Marketing.

 

[ImThatGuy]

This is said by another person from a different medium who will stay anonymous...

"My personal thought on the "house liquid" line not showing bad results... if they had flavors with unfavorable test results might they have pulled those flavors before publicizing results leaving only flavors that tested well in their own line... Just a thought!"

 

[scrabble]

This is said by another person from a different medium who will stay anonymous...

"My personal thought on the "house liquid" line not showing bad results... if they had flavors with unfavorable test results might they have pulled those flavors before publicizing results leaving only flavors that tested well in their own line... Just a thought!"

Even if that's what happened I think people are still correct in saying it's a bias. If VS liquids did test positive they should have been left in the report with a note that those liquids would be discontinued. Or something like that.

 

[Racehorse]

Because I don't know what the reason behind the testing was

What was the reason behind testing for Mountain Oaks and other vendors who pay for their own testing, as well as reformulate with products that contain zero AP and DA?

Perhaps they also believe that zero exposure to those contaminants is way to go .

but from the results I can derive reason and motive; VS juices have minimal (ND) AP and DA levels compared to the other juices in our store. So, buy our juice.

VS doesn't have to carry any other vendors' juice. They are expanding the sales channel for those other vendors by carrying their products. If anything it get the other vendors names out and provides another placed to sell.

I believe they are putting these eliquid makers on notice.....test clean or you're off our shelves. It doesn't fit with their mission.

If they were ONLY interested in selling their own VS product, then the other vendors wouldn't be on their shelves in the first place. It's a win/win to have a variety though.

I think I will send VS a list of clean eliquid makers. Maybe they can sell them and provide another sales channel for the makers who are of the same mind, same value sytem, and who have no problem taking out the contaminants. Sounds like a win/win to me. Also, then those of us who don't want AP and DA can just shop in one place. That would be great.

Meanwhile, I use MOV when I'm not DIYing, and other vendors who test clean, adn have been doing so for...over a year.

Some of you act like this is some kinda of "new marketing device". Eliquid vendors reformulating and testing has been going on for some time now,,,,,,,,there are lots to choose from, actually.

 

[ImThatGuy]

Reformulating and testing? That test is not based on reformulation or further testing. It was just one test. That is about testing current liquids they have in their store. Not other stores, not other juices in other stores, but the juices they sell in their own store.

If it's a question of reformulating and testing, then where are the previous results? Results to be compared or contrasted if it is a question of reformulation (which it is not)

If they wanted to put these eliquid makers on notice, they should have done it a more discreet way. Sending them private notices, not publicly shaming them. As business professionals to publicize negative information about other companies than yourself, then that falls in line with marketing strategies and tactics.

They are expanding sales channels for those vendors? By publicly shaming them? Are you serious? They just burned bridges with them. As a merchant, you don't shame the products you sell. That's ludicrous.

 

[Racehorse]

Reformulating and testing?

ITG, I was talking about the companies who have been reformulating and testing since the report back in 2014 came out---- companies who wish to provide their customers with diketone-free juice. Good topic on it here. there is a facebook group, keeping track of things:
Diketones-free vendors | E-Cigarette Forum

If they wanted to put these eliquid makers on notice, they should have done it a more discreet way.

ITG, I understand you don't like the way it was done. Do we have enough backstory on this, not sure if we do. I don't know what VS's agreement was with these vendors. Maybe they were given a time allotment to prove absence of diketones.

The study in 2014 that revealed 74% of eliquids who said there was no diketones in their juice had diketones. That was a huge number for me. None of the vendors were named.

Perhaps I'm not the most patient person. Last year, while everyone was busy being discreet, I was inhaling a pretty serious carcinogen. (titnanium dioxide in one ejuice). To their credit, it was an honest mistake, and they fixed it, but sheesh. Can I just buy something I can trust?

This isn't about being a nice person or not a nice person. Most of the vendors I've dealt with are super nice folks. It's just that some need to get a better handle on what the heck they are doing, bottling, etc.


Surely there's a middle ground ??....... for me it's transparency. I can avoid diketones if I am made aware of them. I'm not stopping you from vaping what you want.

I just believe if we know what we are vaping, we can make "educated" decisions about what to buy.

I get riled up in these types of topics, because my pet peeve is .....being lied to. Nothing against you personally for your opinions on this Vaporshark subject.

 

[ImThatGuy]

You can't get transparency from a bias test done by a bias company (enthalpy who reports inaccurately) that is headed by AEMSA (or founded by, forgot) and the test was requested by a company (VS) who is AEMSA certified/approved.

This is a PR stunt with a lot of politics involved...

Once again, this is what I got from this test: VS juices have minimal (ND) AP and DA levels compared to the other juices in our store. So, buy our juice.