Electronic cigarettes under fire for targeting Arizona kids

[kristin]

As far as the mall kiosk sellers, something needs to be done other than banning them. maybe requiring a license to sell them? If you're caught purposely selling to kids or making false statements, you lose your license to sell them.

I only say that because we have the same problem in real estate - it's too easy to get into it and still be stupid or unethical. We have licensing requirements and the Realtors Association to help counter that, but it's still to easy for anyone to become an agent - same as it is to sell e-cigarettes. maybe they need to just have regulation vs outright banning.

 

[ECGuy]

Maybe Matt is smart enough to know that and still look PC - and it IS important to be PC right now. We need to get legislators on our side. Not having pre-flavored, non-tobacco e-liquid flavors could help achieve that, because it takes away the "protect the children" argument of the nannies.

I think you are right. At least it's easier for us to flavor our own. Just frustrating when you have to pick your battles and retreat from what is right to live to fight another day. Sound Political Survival Tactics, but they just don't sit well with me, ever, no matter the issue.

Sadly, I think we are so outgunned it may come down to where ecigs suffer the same regulations as cigarettes and we shall have to smoke them hidden in a closet deep in our basement like so many of us have to do now with the real thing.

 

[john doe]

apparently salmon has no problem with swisher sweets because they aren't "cigarettes" they're small cigars? they sell those in flavors.

 

[ECGuy]

apparently salmon has no problem with swisher sweets because they aren't "cigarettes" they're small cigars? they sell those in flavors.

/me laughs Cigars are smoked by rich folks and politicians. You'll never see them held to the same standards as cigarettes. Same reason flavored vodka is not under the same amount of fire.

 

[john doe]

except the swishersweets are marketed and sold to lower income people.

 

[kristin]

except the swishersweets are marketed and sold to lower income people.

Yep and rich people aren't drinking flavored vodka! (They get the really good stuff.)

 

[killdozerd11]

The press probably did copy this from another story>Since they are no more above lying than they are not above being lazy either

But we are talking about is did they sell to minors???
They just want money they don't care if they shoot our cause in the foot

They will start selling the next fad thing next when ever it comes out
They don't give a damm how it sets us back in the public eye they got there money and that there bottom line (screw SE)

 

[BriDog67]

Is everyone missing that the parent was there? If a product is legal, first off, and the parent approves, second..wheres the problem?

Sadly, it seems as though the mere threat of big government taking away our freedoms causes us to instinctively begin planning how we are going to circumvent the system while completely accepting as fact that we can do nothing to change it.

 

[jadeninja]

WHY DON'T YOU TRY DOING A LITTLE INVESTIGATING? In one of your scrolls, you put AND I QUOTE: “...the FDA found dangerous chemicals in some electric cigarettes. Including diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze and is toxic to humans." The FDA report states (and if you would have read it you would know this), that one cartridge out of all tested contained a trace amount of diethylene glycol (less that 1%). One cartridge out of 14 tested, and from one manufacturer. New Zealand and several other countries have tested electronic cigarettes and have not detected any diethylene glycol, but you didn't report that did you?
Now as alarming as this is, why was it only found in one out of 14 and what other chemicals in the FDA report are you referring to? Is it a quality control issue on behalf of the manufacturer? Most likely. The "antifreeze" could have gotten in as a contaminate, not an ingredient. As far as the other chemicals to which the FDA report is referring, they are nitrosamines. Nitrosamines occur in most fried foods. The amounts found where measured in part per billion (yes BILLION), of the 4 types of nitrosamines tested for, the range is between none, 21ppb, 21ppb, 24ppb and 75ppb. But you didn't report that either, did you? Maybe you should report that a tobacco cigarette contains upwards of 200ppb nitrosamines, in each cigarette. Maybe you should report that each cartridge tested is the equivalent to 7-10 cigarettes. BUT YOU DIDN'T, DID YOU? Maybe you should report that according to the FDA report, only 2 of the 14 Smoking Everywhere Cartridges even contain any nitrosamines. BUT YOU DIDN'T, DID YOU?
Should electronic cigarettes be sold to minors? NO! Should the state enforce the same laws and penalties as selling cigarettes to minors? YES! Do electronic cigarettes really help people stop smoking cigarettes? WELL I HAVEN'T PICKED UP A TOBACCO CIGARETTE IN 42 DAYS, AND I WAS A PACK A DAY SMOKER FOR 15 YEARS. Journalism?

 

[jadeninja]

I made use of the 2000 character limit on the ABC 15 website.

As far as the ECA newly reported stance on flavors? If there stance is no flavors, then I will no longer support them. I am with Kristen, if it weren't for the flavors, I probably wouldn't buy juice, and I would make it. Just because we are adults, doesn't mean we don't like sweet flavors. I said this with flavored cigs and I say it with e-juice.

If this is the ECA official stance, I am done with them. I will not support them and I will fight them and expose them as non representative of me and anyone else who likes flavored juice. I am already uncomfortable with the fact that this Matt Salmon clown started with smoking bans. I don't like how he thinks that he represents everyone with statement such as "our products". Just because he was a politician doesn't mean he is representative to our cause. I am very uncomfortable with this guy, especially now. I don't like his tone or demeanor. He has a strict "no tolerance" policy on saying that e-cigs are a smoking cessation device. Well here are the facts MATT, I have ceased SMOKING. Now if they want to call it NICOTINE CESSATION, then I will agree, but I will say it again I HAVE CEASED "SMOKING", I "SMOKED" A PACK A DAY FOR FIFTEEN YEARS, NOTHING ELSE EVER WORKED, UNTIL THIS. I STILL GET NICOTINE, BUT I HAVE CEASED SMOKING. D-bag.

 

[jadeninja]

Like I said in my last post bashing Matt Salmon and the ECA, I want to be clear about something. The fact that an organization is so afraid of being taken out of context, that they are willing to down play the obvious facts, is appalling. It's almost as bad as the last election (to get all political, but this is policy), you have to choose between fresh steaming excrement and old dried up excrement. Yeah one is easier to pick up, but they both stink and should not be stomached. Back on point.

Vaping is a safer alternative - fact, but don't say it.

Juice contains at best 4 known carcinogens in trace amounts (I am referring to TS-Nitrosamines and a lot contain none) - fact, but don't say that either.

Vaping is the best smoking cessation product yet -fact, but it hasn't been proven, tested, scrutinized, or UN approved. Even though there are probably more successful "quitters" on this board than Chantix and Nicorette successes world wide combined (need citation).

Hey you idiots at FDA and ECA want to do a study, sign me up. Where do I sign up? Anyone? Sign me the hell up. Nothing worked until this.

I DON'T SMOKE ANYMORE. I HAVE CEASED, CESSATED OR WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. I HAVE QUIT. I DO NOT INHALE SMOKE. IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT NICOTINE CESSATION, THEN CALL IT NICOTINE CESSATION IN WHICH CASE, NO I HAVE NOT CEASED USING NICOTINE. BUT I DO NOT SMOKE. I HAVE CESSATED(not a word), QUIT, STOPPED, CLICKED UNDO, CEASED AND DISITTED. ANY FREAKING QUESTIONS?

Everybody is so damn afraid of getting sued that they won't do what is right anymore. If the ECA doesn't have the balls to stand up for us ALL THE WAY, then to hell with them. We will start our own K Street lobby group from home, in our own towns, counties and states. This is a freaking states rights issue anyway. Take the fight to your councilmen and women, your board of supervisors, and your state reps.

Take it to the media. Post on their message boards, OFTEN. This board, your post and thread like these make people act. And in bigger and bigger numbers every day. The ECA doesn't want us rocking the boat, wants to limit in the name of legality, and then throw them OVERBOARD. We will not have this taken from us and others. Lives are on the line here. Don't let any media get away with any lies or propaganda. We have the power, post them to death, until they retract and give the facts. HEY THAT'S A GOOD RALLY CRY "RETRACT AND GIVE THE FACTS, RETRACT AND GIVE THE FACTS"

I have no problem with quality control. The damn DEG (diethylene glycol) thing would have never occurred if basic quality control protocols would have been followed. Maybe that's why Smoking Everywhere is fighting in court, because they feel bad because it was one of their carts. And they should. Johnson Creek follows strict guidelines and only uses FDA food (USP) grade products and they list their ingredients, other juice manufactures could learn something from them (whether you like JC or not). We need to have basic safety rules, but that's it. The federal government overregulates themselves into oblivion on a daily basis. Too bad they always come back. Point is, quality control, and if a manufacturer violates that, they we should turn our backs on them. Period.

Rant over!

 

[ECGuy]

The worst thing that ever happened to e-cigs was that one single cartridge. Go back to May and roll the dice again, and it would be a whole different story. But the damage is done, now it's time to make sure the truth is out there. I don't see anyone boycotting all Mattel toys because some lead paint was found in some of them.

But saying "a component of antifreeze" is just too tasty a sound bite for any of the press and isn't going away any time soon. All we can do is keep pointing out it was only one cartridge, from one manufacturer, and a manufacturer who has pretty much lost all credibility in the industry.

 

[moog]

I have to agree with all jadeninja says....

 

[Mordred]

Oh noes, they're selling to kids, quick, alert teh internets...

You know what? I'm sick and tired of this. Movies? No, we need to censor that, or kids might see it. Games? Too violent, can't have that, kids might play it. Flavoured smokes/e-cigs/snus? Nonono, the kids. Guns? Kids. Freedom? Kids.

Come on, the answer to EVERYTHING these days is either "Kids" "9/11" or "the environment". Using either of those three, you can push through ANY legislation, no matter how absurd.

THIS is the state of politics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOh-rpvjYg

 

[TokenVapor]

Well, if they do ban non-tobacco flavors, smart e-cig retailers could still sell completely "unflavored" liquid and we could add our own Lorann's flavorings. Whole businesses could be built around selling pre-mixed flavorings to add to e-liquid, like those flavorings made to add to tobacco cigarettes. I have no problem adding a few drops of pre-mixed mint chocolate drops to my unflavored e-liquid, if it means keeping e-cigs available.

Maybe Matt is smart enough to know that and still look PC - and it IS important to be PC right now. We need to get legislators on our side. Not having pre-flavored, non-tobacco e-liquid flavors could help achieve that, because it takes away the "protect the children" argument of the nannies.

Exactly the point I was going to make when I saw this thread start to drift into the "flavored" argument. A war is waged, and won, on many fronts. Concede this one and buy your own flavorings. Pull the rug out from under the nannies.
Juice without flavorings will drive our cost down. We will still buy our flavorings separate. Special interests can't push their agenda through nanny sympathizers. We still come out with a victory.

Concede and we will have our cake and eat it too.

Edit: Flavoring is a trivial matter and sticking to your guns on the issue only gives the opposition more ammo. Blow up their ammunition dump by conceding. It is foolish and jeopardizes our cause to fight the flavoring battle.
You can buy flavorings that you drip on the filters of cigarettes to flavor them. This is no different.

 

[Darmeen]

But saying "a component of antifreeze" is just too tasty a sound bite for any of the press and isn't going away any time soon. All we can do is keep pointing out it was only one cartridge, from one manufacturer, and a manufacturer who has pretty much lost all credibility in the industry.

I do enjoy bringing up that the first ingredient in antifreeze is H2O!

 

[Treece]

ABC15 and John Wickwire Catch Another Mall Kiosk Selling E-cigs to Children | Electronic Cigarette Blog - Dec 7 09

This is the same story that reportedly happened in Kansas last month. Same names, same quotes. Apparently abc15 in Arizona presented it not only as new, but as having happened in Arizona.

It was discussed on ECF here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/48146-minors-vaping-bad-news.html

 

[ECGuy]

I do enjoy bringing up that the first ingredient in antifreeze is H2O!

You know what is really ironic?? The FDA exists because of DG. There was a medicine guy who started selling his "elixer" in glycol, contaminated with DG and over 100 people died.

So we formed the FDA to protect from that in the future.

That was 1936, and DG is still making it's way into glycol.

I still want to see a news report that says "Toothpaste might contain DG, a component of antifreeze" because one shipment was contaminated.

 

[Mac]

Like I said in my last post bashing Matt Salmon and the ECA, I want to be clear about something. The fact that an organization is so afraid of being taken out of context, that they are willing to down play the obvious facts, is appalling. It's almost as bad as the last election (to get all political, but this is policy), you have to choose between fresh steaming excrement and old dried up excrement. Yeah one is easier to pick up, but they both stink and should not be stomached. Back on point.

Vaping is a safer alternative - fact, but don't say it.

Juice contains at best 4 known carcinogens in trace amounts (I am referring to TS-Nitrosamines and a lot contain none) - fact, but don't say that either.

Vaping is the best smoking cessation product yet -fact, but it hasn't been proven, tested, scrutinized, or UN approved. Even though there are probably more successful "quitters" on this board than Chantix and Nicorette successes world wide combined (need citation).

Hey you idiots at FDA and ECA want to do a study, sign me up. Where do I sign up? Anyone? Sign me the hell up. Nothing worked until this.

I DON'T SMOKE ANYMORE. I HAVE CEASED, CESSATED OR WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. I HAVE QUIT. I DO NOT INHALE SMOKE. IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT NICOTINE CESSATION, THEN CALL IT NICOTINE CESSATION IN WHICH CASE, NO I HAVE NOT CEASED USING NICOTINE. BUT I DO NOT SMOKE. I HAVE CESSATED(not a word), QUIT, STOPPED, CLICKED UNDO, CEASED AND DISITTED. ANY FREAKING QUESTIONS?

Everybody is so damn afraid of getting sued that they won't do what is right anymore. If the ECA doesn't have the balls to stand up for us ALL THE WAY, then to hell with them. We will start our own K Street lobby group from home, in our own towns, counties and states. This is a freaking states rights issue anyway. Take the fight to your councilmen and women, your board of supervisors, and your state reps.

Take it to the media. Post on their message boards, OFTEN. This board, your post and thread like these make people act. And in bigger and bigger numbers every day. The ECA doesn't want us rocking the boat, wants to limit in the name of legality, and then throw them OVERBOARD. We will not have this taken from us and others. Lives are on the line here. Don't let any media get away with any lies or propaganda. We have the power, post them to death, until they retract and give the facts. HEY THAT'S A GOOD RALLY CRY "RETRACT AND GIVE THE FACTS, RETRACT AND GIVE THE FACTS"

I have no problem with quality control. The damn DEG (diethylene glycol) thing would have never occurred if basic quality control protocols would have been followed. Maybe that's why Smoking Everywhere is fighting in court, because they feel bad because it was one of their carts. And they should. Johnson Creek follows strict guidelines and only uses FDA food (USP) grade products and they list their ingredients, other juice manufactures could learn something from them (whether you like JC or not). We need to have basic safety rules, but that's it. The federal government overregulates themselves into oblivion on a daily basis. Too bad they always come back. Point is, quality control, and if a manufacturer violates that, they we should turn our backs on them. Period.

Rant over!

When the ECA was founded I was so happy. I thought "you know maybe we have a fighting chance here." When I read this I was shocked. I had to reread it 6 times to be sure it was real. But that is a real ABC newswire. I don't get it. Why would the ECA pull this tremendous backstab. The only thing I can think is that they dont have any kiosks paying dues. Otherwise those members would be suing them. Can you imagine paying a group 300 bucks a month for 6 months only to have them go on the news calling for a withchunt against you? I would damn sure be screaming for blood. I am going to do some more research and digging and see what other unethical actions the ECA is taking. I will see if I can find any more blatant conflicts of interest. Watch for my threads. I will expose these people.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

The worst thing that ever happened to e-cigs was that one single cartridge.

It's my firm belief that "that one single cartridge" was a plant. Where is the second 'poisonous' (laughing out loud at my own words) cart? And the third one? There is only one because it was a plant. In a country that is as politically corrupt as the US, it would be very easy to do. Grease the palm of the right person and bob's ya uncle.