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Electronic Cigarettes yield 90.5% nicotine vapor compared to traditional cigarettes.

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by NickelName, Apr 20, 2013.

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  1. Jimi D.

    Jimi D. ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 26, 2010
    Florida Keys
    Good point. When I take a hit with my Nzonic/ Trident setup, I get ripped with nicotine goodness :D
     
  2. supertrunker

    supertrunker Living sarcasm Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2012
    Texas
    Well anyway - i didn't get very many mAh from cigarettes. Glad i'm rid of them.

    T
     
  3. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    "Ripped with Nicotine Goodness"

    LOL

    Sounds like a Good Product Catch Phrase.

    :D
     
  4. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Amen to No More Analogs!
     
  5. slider

    slider Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 10, 2013
    Sacramento, CA
    Ya I never found a good way to reuse them
     
  6. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Yeah... This is about the Only Refillable.

    [​IMG]

    LOL
     
  7. certus11

    certus11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2014
    usa
    i call BS on this.

    Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
     
  8. Julie W

    Julie W Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2013
    Whatevah ! ...it's no less convincing than all the anti-ecig studies:D
     
  9. susie canasta

    susie canasta Full Member

    Feb 3, 2014
    Yamba Australia
    Taylon
    Hi.Maths not too good but yes I agree with what you are saying. Makes me feel a whole lot better as I puff along like a little train!
    Cheers
    Susie
     
  10. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Purely anecdotal evidence here but yesterday my wife fired up her Provari for the first time in two days (shes weird like that) and swooned a bit. She asked me if I remembered the head rush I used to get from cigarettes and she swore she was experiencing the same thing at 6mg.

    On the flip side of that coin, a few months back my wife ordered some juice for me and they made a mistake and sent 0mg.I vaped it for a little more than a day (it was only 10ml) and didnt notice the difference at all.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. JungleRecon

    JungleRecon Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2014
    Lincoln, NE
    I guess it is partially psychosomatic then. At that point your thought of receiving the non existent nicotine was more potent than actual nicotine.
     
  12. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 24, 2009
    ECF Towers
    The calcs given in post #1 are speculative because they refer to one case out of hundreds of possible variations on the multiple factors involved. There has been plenty of research on this issue and we also have resources on ECF that fully explain the issue, such as:
    Tobacco cigarette vs e-cigarette nicotine equivalency | E-Cigarette Forum

    The average comparative measurement of nicotine content per ecig puff vs per cigarette puff, per unit volume of vapour, was 10% - prior to sub-ohm RBA use and high-power boxmod RBA use. For example, Laugesen showed around 2009 that cigarette smoke contained 103mcg nicotine per puff vs 10mcg nicotine per puff for vaping. It is likely to be higher now, with hi-power modern equipment (maybe up to 50%) - but keep in mind the unit volume has to be kept the same. In other words if a cigarette puff is 40cl volume then a vaporiser puff must be the same - not a massive lung inhale that produces a giant cloud. It's only 40cl or whatever and unrelated to a deep lung hit or the massive cloud this can produce - the measurement has to be per unit volume of inhaled aerosol.

    Another relevant factor is that ecigs have been extensively tested by Goniewicz et al in multiple tests over several years, and the average nicotine transfer efficiency is around 50%: about half of the nicotine in the e-liquid is transferred into the vapour. If you have a bottle containing 1ml of 12mg strength e-liquid, there is 12mg of nicotine in that bottle; so, if you vape it, then on average you will receive 6mg of nicotine.

    One point that confuses some people is the difference between how much nicotine is in tobacco and how much is in the smoke. The raw tobacco in a cigarette contains about 13 to 23mg of nicotine before combustion, so around 18mg on average. (Although it is toward the lower end of the scale today as cigarettes are containing less nicotine over time.) After combustion, the smoke contains about 1mg of nicotine (slightly less, now). Thus, tobacco cigarettes have about a 5% transfer efficiency: about 5% of the nicotine in the tobacco makes it into the smoke.

    So to get 1 mg of nicotine delivered to the user requires about 10 puffs of a cigarette (people vary between about 8 and 12, with some outside this range on both ends), but at least double the *same type of puffs* when vaping (puffs of the same volume).

    All these factors can be combined to try and work out how ecigs compare to smoking a cigarette as far as the nicotine is concerned, by calculation. However they can't be compared because another thing we know is that there is a 33% difference in the effect on the human organism between tobacco smoke and ecig vapour: plasma nicotine measurements consistently show that vapers measure 33 - 40% lower plasma nic level than when smoking, for exactly the same effect. In other words a dual-user smoker-vaper will measure (for example) 18ng/ml when smoking and 12ng when vaping, when reporting the same effect.

    To get the same effect from vaping as 1 cigarette requires about double the time and double the number of puffs, using standard vaping gear, when measured with a vaper consuming the maximum nicotine strength e-liquid they can tolerate. Using hi-power gear will deliver more nicotine and a direct equivalent can be reached.

    The vaper will still show a lower plasma nicotine level compared with when they smoke. Indeed, a vaper can deliberately over-consume nicotine in order to demonstrate significant nicotine over-consumption symptoms such as dizziness and nausea (which quickly pass, of course, as excess nicotine is rapidly eliminated from the body) - and they will still demonstrate a far lower plasma nic level than if they had smoked as hard as possible and had been completely unable to demonstrate any OD symptoms of significance at all.
    (Note that the medical profession cannot explain this phenomenon; it was first noted several decades ago in THR cigarette research.)

    Therefore we know that pure nicotine consumed by vaping is far more powerful than nicotine consumed in tobacco smoke. We do not need anything like as much, for the same effect.

    And now on to the next point: human tolerance to nicotine varies by a factor of 10. Therefore, the amount of nicotine is supplied to an individual is almost meaningless anyway. To explain: some people cannot over-vape 6mg (0.6% strength) in regular ecig gear (let's call an eGo with a typical tankomizer the 'benchmark' for average equipment). They cannot vape 12mg without feeling sick. At the other end of the scale, there are individuals who require 60mg strength (6%) in order to feel any benefit and to avoid relapse to smoking (and the OD strength for them may be higher). So, with some unable to use more than 0.6% in the benchmark device, and some requiring 6%, we immediately see there is a factor 10 difference. The average, where most people are, is around 18 - 24mg (1.8% - 2.4%) with benchmark gear (especially when starting to vape). Of course, with highly-efficient hi-power gear then far lower strengths are needed (some even go as low as 1.5mg strength) although the comparatively high liquid use and vapor volume is a factor. We're talking about benchmark equipment here though.

    So now we see that whatever numerical result you come with - which by definition can only apply to specific gear using specific strength e-liquid used in a specific way, which immediately renders it too specific and inapplicable since vaping is completely variable - it really doesn't matter in the end, when some people need a nic strength 10 times lower or 10 times higher than another, since individual requirements vary up to 5 times stronger or weaker than the mean.

    Such things cannot be explained by the medical profession and in any case are unknown to them - we know far more about the practical aspects of nicotine consumption than they do.

    Also, there is no need to worry about 'over-vaping' or harming yourself by consuming too much nicotine: if it is too much then the symptoms will prevent you vaping any more. (Dizziness, nausea, headache, trembling, 'rock concert effect' - it varies between people.) Prof Mayer has shown that nicotine is far less harmful than previously believed, and Prof Hayek tells us that overconsumption of this type is inconsequential. If you consume too much coffee then you'll soon know about it, and the same goes for nicotine (and the consequences are the same). Unless you have pre-existing CVD (heart disease) then minor overdose has no implications. Listen to what your body tells you and stop if it hurts.


    Recap
    - It's a waste of time trying to numerically compare the nicotine delivery in cigarette smoking with vaping. There are just too many variables.
    - Even if you did manage to concoct some sort of 'standard model', individual tolerance to nicotine varies by a factor of 10 in any case; any result is irrelevant when you have to multiply or divide any 'comparative figure ' or 'equivalent number' by up to 10 to get a suitable answer for an individual.
    - Just vape until it feels right, then stop. Your plasma nic level will be 33% lower than if you had smoked and then stopped when you got to the same effect. No one can explain this and in any case no medics appear to even know about it yet.
    - Forget about research and numbers and equivalencies and theories and all that stuff. The only thing that matters is if it works for you. Try different combinations of equipment and refills until you get a working solution, then change it all around once in while to keep things interesting.
     
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