Ethyl Vanillin and Vanillin is there a difference?

[Damrin]

Ethyl Vanillin 50gm Bourbonal Vanilla x 4 Ethoxy Hydroxy Benzaldehyde | eBay and
Vanillin 100gm Chemical Methoxy Hydroxy Benzaldehyde | eBay

Ethyl Vanillin and Vanillin, are these safe to be mixed with PG and vaped? (as an additive, not straight) Is there a difference between the two products? I love using "vanillin" in my juice recipes, and am looking to make my own (vanillin), but I cannot quite find answers to these questions. Any help is appreciated!

 

[AzPlumber]

I suggest you purchase from a trusted source like The Flavor Apprentice. They sell several Vanillin compounds.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Ethyl vanillin is stronger. It is written in your links it is "chemical", but is it of food grade?

 

[Damrin]

Good suggestion and question! That's why I asked! I just linked those for reference, I was curious as to the nature of the 2 products. Is one more potent? Sweeter? Etc... Thanks for the suggestions so far! It was my hope to not only have my questions answered, but for others jumping into this as well!

 

[AzPlumber]

I'm not sure about the taste difference but I believe TPA sells both of them so there must be. Check her site out she has some good info, search vanillin. If you don't find your answers there, shoot her an email.

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-108-the-flavor-apprentice-world-of-flavors.aspx

 

[Damrin]

I'm not sure about the taste difference but I believe TPA sells both of them so there must be. Check her site out she has some good info, search vanillin. If you don't find your answers there, shoot her an email.

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-108-the-flavor-apprentice-world-of-flavors.aspx

Email sent! Thanks for the heads up!

 

[twgbonehead]

Email sent! Thanks for the heads up!

I'd appreciate if you pass along any answer you get!

 

[Damrin]

I'd appreciate if you pass along any answer you get!

lol, this is the response I got:

hi
they just have a different nuance,
i'd suggest you try both and see how they differ
to your individual tastes.

 

[Damrin]

I emailed again and asked more specific questions... I will update when the email arrives...

 

[Alien Traveler]

lol, this is the response I got:

hi
they just have a different nuance,
i'd suggest you try both and see how they differ
to your individual tastes.

And nothing about strength?
Bad answer. Somebody without real knowledge replied. I should suppose they just dilute ethylanillin more that vanilla vanillin, so reply is about their flavors, not about properties of a substance.

 

[Damrin]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 14172123" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

And nothing about strength?
Bad answer. Somebody without real knowledge replied. I should suppose they just dilute ethylanillin more that vanilla vanillin, so reply is about their flavors, not about properties of a substance.

I agree. I send another email asking specific questions. I am interested in the powder form of the 2 chemicals, and intend to mix them with PG. And now we play the waiting game...

 

[AzPlumber]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 14172123" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

And nothing about strength?
Bad answer. Somebody without real knowledge replied. I should suppose they just dilute ethylanillin more that vanilla vanillin, so reply is about their flavors, not about properties of a substance.

The description on the site gives some info about each flavor profile and a maximum ppm/% for aroma and flavor

 

[amoret]

The problem with any vanillin is that it is only one of the flavors that are part of vanilla. That is why it is so easy to pick out the flavor of artificial vanilla extract when it is used instead of real vanilla extract.

 

[Damrin]

New email explains it a bit better...

Dan, you are correct about the potency. As a flavorant, ethyl vanillin is about 3x as potent as vanillin and is most commonly used in the production of chocolate.
Ethylvanillin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vanilla flavoring is often a solution of pure vanillin, much like our 'Vanillin 10 PG Flavor' usually of synthetic, but sometimes natural origin. Vanillin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would reccomend that you just purchase a 4ml vial of each product and decide for yourself which one is best suited for your application, as these things really are very personal and subjective.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

 

[Damrin]

Thank you azplumber for the suggestion of contacting tpa. I am happy with the response I got! As for the rest of you, thanks for nothing. No, I'm joking. I really appreciate all the quick responses from everyone!! I love this forum!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alien Traveler]

Somehow I feel myself not comfortable buying from ebay powder described as “chemical” for juice. There are other places on the web…

 

[RobertNC]

A couple of things, TPA amounts to me are sometimes difficult to interpret.

I have seen Hangsen bottles of e-juice that say 2.5% Vanillin. Hangsen flavors have a strong vanilla taste to me.

I have added as little as 0.25% Ethyl Vanillin to tobacco flavors and that is tenth, or roughly a third correcting for EV vs V potency, and that to me is a lot of vanilla taste. I now find myself often down in the 50 ppm range based on pure EV crystal.

One other thing you may want to consider - shelflife. EV is more slowly oxidized in dilute solution than Vanillin. Although both are prone to oxidation I have 0.5% stocks of EV in PG that after 6-8 months show no to only a little slight discoloration. Vanillin is not as stable.

Oxidation stability of EV versus Vanillin is probably moot if you also add nicotine, which oxidizes far more rapidly than either Ethyl Vanillin or Vanillin.

 

[Damrin]

Somehow I feel myself not comfortable buying from ebay powder described as “chemical” for juice. There are other places on the web…

I agree, I just used those as reference...AzPlumber was kind enough to direct me to the perfumer's apprentice!

 

[Damrin]

A couple of things, TPA amounts to me are sometimes difficult to interpret.

I have seen Hangsen bottles of e-juice that say 2.5% Vanillin. Hangsen flavors have a strong vanilla taste to me.

I have added as little as 0.25% Ethyl Vanillin to tobacco flavors and that is tenth, or roughly a third correcting for EV vs V potency, and that to me is a lot of vanilla taste. I now find myself often down in the 50 ppm range based on pure EV crystal.

One other thing you may want to consider - shelflife. EV is more slowly oxidized in dilute solution than Vanillin. Although both are prone to oxidation I have 0.5% stocks of EV in PG that after 6-8 months show no to only a little slight discoloration. Vanillin is not as stable.

Oxidation stability of EV versus Vanillin is probably moot if you also add nicotine, which oxidizes far more rapidly than either Ethyl Vanillin or Vanillin.

What a fantastic explanation! Thank you for taking the time to share that!

 

[AzPlumber]

Thank you azplumber for the suggestion of contacting tpa. I am happy with the response I got! As for the rest of you, thanks for nothing. No, I'm joking. I really appreciate all the quick responses from everyone!! I love this forum!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad you received the info you were after. Linda at TPA/TFA is usually very helpful but I suspect with the ever growing interest in DIY and flavoring she probably has her plate pretty full most days.