I changed the value as Devlinukr did, to 0920 instead. Now it is a warm vape again, for the Crown 0.5 ss coil, does the resistance really change that much with a dual build? I mean, almost maxed out in the settings? so for compensating a 304 dual wire, the input would not be enough since 1000 is max? is this possible to fix with software? or is it just fixed with hardware, the "not detecting" issue.
eVic-VT mini?
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I'm also vaping it now with 0092 for SS316 and it works correctly on a single coil. The reason it's working for you is because the limit has become whatever your wattage is set to. You're essentially vaping in power mode.
I'm going to guess you have a low resistance dual coil build.
Because the Joyetech chips don't understand dual coils yet (as confirmed in the RX200 thread), you're getting the weak vape with "correct" TCR values.
Here a link to the RX200 thread where the "dual coil = a new TCR for the parallel circuit" phenomenon was discussed: Findings on the DNA 200
So, do your 0880 if it's solving the dual coil issue, but don't do it because you think it's the correct TCR value for the SS family.Know, what I mean.
Once you're in dual coil territory, if you really want an accurate TCR value, you can find the correct TCR by doing dry burns tests with cotton at around 400 to 420.
Or, just bump the number up / down until it feels right. This is what's so awesome about custom TCRs.
For the single coil users, I can assure you the correct TCR value is 0088 (if the .00088 TCR of SS317L is assumed).
Single coil, 24g 317L, 6 wraps, 3mm ID @3.2 ohms.
Yes, it appears the "new, net TCR of the circuit" for dual coils (dual coils are a parallel circuit) does change significantly. Weak vape ensues.
Some mods are emplying a "dual coil" feature to address it. Others, custom TCRs as a sort of "hack" to do the same thing.
The custom TCR approach is the most flexible, of course. So I'll take it over the "dual coil" setting. Ideally, I'd be nice to have both.
I'll assume 3.2 ohms is a typo and you mean .32 ohms.
Interesting. Hmmm, my only thought is that true TC is a real let down to many in the cloud-chasing community. It's a much more anemic vape than we're used to in power mode.
Is the temp protect message even coming on with your higher-than-nickel TCR of 0880?
I can't wrap my head around how the linear graph line, that number creates, even intersects with the vaping range we care about (and still offer any kind of TC).
I'm not even aware of a wire material with a TCR higher than nickel's 0620 (or 0600 by other references).
I experimented again, and changed back to 0176, double the '0088 and it felt almost as good as the 0920, just figured, dual coil, dual resistance
seemed to work out regarding the heat. little bit less, So I'll settle with that for now. seemed like the 0920 didn't really cut off with the protection and the temp showing was reading like 45c and the mod was confused when pushed several seconds but it got really hot.With 0176 it does not even reach 230 at all it just wobbles around 200c and do not protect. I'm little fuzzed as what to use
cannot go with the regular resistance as single coil users.Tried it in the Temp ss 316 mode, and it got temp protected within 2-3 seconds.
Is there some kind of resistance calculation for "paralell" circuits? so that you can have the correct value? or is it just hit and miss? trial and error.
v2 firmware displayed battery voltage the same way...
Steam Engine's Coil Wrapping tool has single and dual coil option that shows how the "heat flux" lowers for each coil for a dual coil build, as compared to its single coil counterpart.
That's the mechanism that causes the TCR to be off when doing dual. The parallel circuit as a whole, exhibits less rise in heat flux and therefore resistivity.
Unfortunately, their tool doesn't provide a calculated TCR yet. I've seen a few graphs showing it for Ni200, but not a proper TCR value.
I think you'll just have to do it by feel.
Or, calibrate it to a dry burn test and become a hero on this thread.
I'd like to know myself.
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Meh, I'm just going to use regular SS 316 mode until we get a bit of clarity on the matter.
0094 was too weak.
0094 was too weak.
At what temp?
Yeah, I have noticed the default SS316 hits harder, as well.
I'm going to see if I can find what value they're using for it. Will do a dry burn test.
this SS seems like good wire?
Beadalon 26 Gauge Artistic Wire, 304 Stainless Steel, 30-Yard
Beadalon 26 Gauge Artistic Wire, 304 Stainless Steel, 30-Yard
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DJLSB just put up a video of his thermocouple tests on the v3 firmware. In Ti, SS304 and SS316 modes, it was extremely accurate with the TCR values in the video.
TC/TL is similar to a governor on an automobile. It's not meant for the drag strip. It's for your daily driver. It's really designed to prevent us from getting into trouble and inhaling some nasties. Besides, all the voluminous vapers I hang with still use quad-coil builds. Getting a quad-coil setup built right for TC is a real bear, even moreso with Ni200. Heck, getting a dual-coil setup running right is difficult enough for most people. A difference of .02Ω between the coils, with Ni200, can throw the entire build off. With other wires, the difference of .05Ω between coils can throw off the build. I can't imagine many of us are prepared with the equipment or patience to wrap almost perfectly consistent coils.
Couldn't have said it better.
Yeah, myself, I like a gentle 23 mean-watt, single coil experience. So, temp control works really well for me.
It's annealed, soft-tempered, 304 SS. Just make sure you clean the wire before you wrap it.
Unkamen Supplies sells the same stuff for $4.75
Stainless Steel Artistic Wire - Unkamen Supplies
You may also want to consider 430 SS. It's nickel-free and has a higher TCR value.
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He actually tested with a dual coil aswell, and it was accurate. I have to turn the temp up alot with the 0092 setting, it does work well, protects and all, but the heat just is not there as much. prob 270-280c to get a comfort slightly warm vape, but maybe that is how it is right? I'm not really concerned if it is correct. but isnt that quite high? perhaps a .25 ohm coil will get it warmer?
Just did another Ti test. Not very scientific, but this is what I'm finding with three Titanium settings...
A .54 ohm, 28 gauge, single coil with 25 watt limit in place was delivering my desired vape as follows...
Build-in Ti mode: 490F
Same vape using a TCR of 0350: 460F.
Same vape using a TCR of 0366: 450F.
I know and like this vape well enough, I'm thinking this might be fairly accurate.
If so, right or wrong TCR values aside, I'm guessing the VTC's build-in Ti mode is lower than 350.
I then did another test where I kept the temp at 490 (the built-in Ti temp that was giving my vape) and changed the custom TCR to match it: 445.
If this subjective methodology has any merit, it's weird they chose around 445 for the built-in Ti setting.
Will need to confirm with more experimentation. You know, for "science."
Upshot for me, for now, is I'm using a TCR of 0350 for Ti.
A .54 ohm, 28 gauge, single coil with 25 watt limit in place was delivering my desired vape as follows...
Build-in Ti mode: 490F
Same vape using a TCR of 0350: 460F.
Same vape using a TCR of 0366: 450F.
I know and like this vape well enough, I'm thinking this might be fairly accurate.
If so, right or wrong TCR values aside, I'm guessing the VTC's build-in Ti mode is lower than 350.
I then did another test where I kept the temp at 490 (the built-in Ti temp that was giving my vape) and changed the custom TCR to match it: 445.
If this subjective methodology has any merit, it's weird they chose around 445 for the built-in Ti setting.
Will need to confirm with more experimentation. You know, for "science."
Upshot for me, for now, is I'm using a TCR of 0350 for Ti.
No, again, tcr is the physical property of a wire material and it does not change due to the number of coils. Dual coils (usually) have more coil material, which amounts to a decreased heat flux, doubled heat capacity (assuming same gauge and number of wraps as the single coil), which means that more power is needed to fire up the coils properly. The same is true for a single coil using e.g. 20 ga wire vs one using 32 ga wire (assuming same number of wraps). The heat capacity is significantly higher and the heat flux lower with the 20 ga coil but you wouldn't suggest that the two coils, being of the same material, have different tcr, right?Steam Engine's Coil Wrapping tool has single and dual coil option that shows how the "heat flux" lowers for each coil for a dual coil build, as compared to its single coil counterpart.
That's the mechanism that causes the TCR to be off when doing dual. The parallel circuit as a whole, exhibits less rise in heat flux and therefore resistivity.
Unfortunately, their tool doesn't provide a calculated TCR yet. I've seen a few graphs showing it for Ni200, but not a proper TCR value.
I think you'll just have to do it by feel.
Or, calibrate it to a dry burn test and become a hero on this thread.
Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk
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Atroph and I have discussed (and even debated at one point) this topic at length in the RX200 thread we darn near hijacked (my apologies to all for that).
He's won me over and I feel I understand it now.
It's clear to me, based on the math of it, that the TCR of the circuit does "change" (so to speak) with a dual parallel config.
Forget the TCR of a material (which doesn't change), it's the combined circuit as a whole that matters.
As for Heat Flux, it lowers, not raises in a dual coil config.
If you look at the Steam Engine Coil Wrapping tool you can see this in action:
E.g. build: Ti, 28 gauge, Target Resistance .5 ohms (about 8 wraps for single, 16 wraps for dual) has a Heat Flux (how hot it gets) at 30 watts of 345.
Same build (same Target Resistance) in dual coil the Heat Flux drops to 86, at the same 30w.
Because the mod doesn't know it's a dual coil, only knows the Target Resistance at a given snapshot in time, it's getting back resistance changes now driven by a lower Heat Flux than it would have for a single coil.
That same wattage (at a snaphot in time) on the dual coil, viewed as a whole from the "fooled" mod, ends up reporting back less change in resistance (because the Heat Flux is lower).
Because it's reporting back less change in resistance, it's almost like a new material is present (the "circuit" becomes this new "material" so to speak).
Effectively, the TCR "changes" (from the mod's point of view) when hitting a dual coil at the same Target Resistance.
It's not the material that's changing, it's the parallel (rather than series) circuit of the dual coil.
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I've just ordered 100m of 316L (26g & 24g) hopefully by the time my Rouleaux rx200 arrives the update will be ready for that too.
The only 316 I have and the moment is 30g.
-_-
The only 316 I have and the moment is 30g.
-_-
It looks like Firmware V1.30 and V2.00 has been modified:
Can someone confirm this?
md5sum UpdateFirmware_V2.00/* said:
md5sum UpdateFirmware_V3.00/* said:
Can someone confirm this?
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