Evolv sues Joyetech over VW technology !

[Oliver]

In answer to your question - I suppose the answer is because that industry is not homogenous, and each company has different views as to where vape is going and what they should be doing.

Worth pointing out that the big narrative amongst PMI/Altria and BAT is that Heat not Burn is going to be the big winner long term.

Also worth noting that Imperial have been publicly attacking HnB on the basis of its supposed safety (or lack thereof).

And finally worth noting that PMI have persued a very aggressive policy in Italy in which they lobbied for pipe-tobacco excise for HnB on the basis that they could demonstrate the safety, but for cigarette-level excise on vape on the basis that it's not proven safer!

I'm happy to say that those tactics will not work in the United Kingdom.

 

[Yozhik]

That brings up an interesting thought, why has the tobacco industry not yet patented (or purchased patents) some vaping technology? That would be a sure way for them to limit and profit off of the market. They could essentially completely do away with vaping by controlling much of the technology. They most certainly have a research and development department and likely have lawyers on staff.

The tobacco industry does have a lot of patents related to e-cigarettes. Most of it relates to cig-a-likes, so that's likely why you aren't familiar with it. Also, in some ways it covers advanced features that only an integrated product can provide, which isn't the direction that our vaping products have taken yet (though with TC it's now beginning to overlap).

 

[zoiDman]

The tobacco industry does have a lot of patents related to e-cigarettes. Most of it relates to cig-a-likes, so that's likely why you aren't familiar with it. Also, in some ways it covers advanced features that only an integrated product can provide, which isn't the direction that our vaping products have taken yet (though with TC it's now beginning to overlap).

Are these Design Patents?

 

[Yozhik]

Maybe we should have a patents forum. I think it's clear that as we head towards regulations there's going to be much, much more enforcement action. Also, I've been watching the patents for many years, there's some stuff out there that's really likely to force consolidations if granted and enforced.

Someone mentioned ECF and prior art: @six ? It might be good to get a project going and locating it where it exists on ECF. I have no problem with good non-obvious patents, but if patents granted to individual parties end up in the hands of those who wish to slow down or dominate our market then I do have a problem. I don't think that's in any way Evolv's intention, by the way - but other patents currently in the application process? Not so sure.

I think the sad fact is that the tobacco industry will pick much of this up and will get pretty nasty once regs are stabilised globally.

I would suggest an intellectual property forum, not a patents form, as both trademarks and patents are important to the industry. Personally, I wouldn't make the focus of such a form about invalidity. Mostly because demonstrating invalidity requires a known patent or patent application and experience in understanding how to demonstrate invalidity. Otherwise, it's a lot of wasted effort and hot air. However, I think it would be a good place for people to understand what intellectual property provides to the industry (and equally does not), see what is being patented, etc. The one risk of such a forum though is that you have to be vigilante about people not being allowed to ask for or provide legal advice, as I doubt ECF wants to contend with state agencies that would frown on such things.

 

[Yozhik]

Are these Design Patents?

Typically they are utility patents, not design patents. A design patent only covers ornamental design of a functional item. For example, the shape and layout of a mod can be protected by a design patent, such as the shape and layout of a vapor flask mod. However, functional improvements can only be protected by a utility patent. Thus, if one of the new features of a new mod is a specialized coating for the housing that is resistant to wear and abuse, that would require a utility patent to protect it.

 

[zoiDman]

Typically they are utility patents, not design patents. A design patent only covers ornamental design of a functional item. For example, the shape and layout of a mod can be protected by a design patent, such as the shape and layout of a vapor flask mod. However, functional improvements can only be protected by a utility patent. Thus, if one of the new features of a new mod is a specialized coating for the housing that is resistant to wear and abuse, that would require a utility patent to protect it.

To be Honest with you, I haven't kept up with what Tobacco Companies have sought Patent wise. I probably should have.

 

[skoony]

Does anyone remember the post about a year ago here in one if the sub-forums
the gist of was an article rumored someone had bought the patent concerning
the pre-grandfather cigalike? The first one marketed in the USA.
Did anyone ever identify the company or what e-cigarette it was?
Regards
Mike

 

[Mazinny]

Does anyone remember the post about a year ago here in one if the sub-forums
the gist of was an article rumored someone had bought the patent concerning
the pre-grandfather cigalike? The first one marketed in the USA.
Did anyone ever identify the company or what e-cigarette it was?
Regards
Mike

You may be talking about the Dragonite ( Ruyan ) patent Smokey Joe was alluding to, although that happened in 2013.

Dragonite International Limited - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[skoony]

@Mazziny Dragonite could be the one. The article didn't mention any names.
Only that some un-named company had purchased the rights to the predicate
pre-2007 product.
The post was newer then 2013 but,probably refers to the Ruyan deal.
Regards
Mike

 

[Oliver]

Does anyone remember the post about a year ago here in one if the sub-forums
the gist of was an article rumored someone had bought the patent concerning
the pre-grandfather cigalike? The first one marketed in the USA.
Did anyone ever identify the company or what e-cigarette it was?
Regards
Mike

It wasn't a patent but a specific e-cig model. I cannot remember off the top of my head who had it, but they were supposedly offered a reasonable amount by a TC and refused. They probably should have accepted - after all, what use is a pre Feb 2007 vape product to anyone?

 

[skoony]

@SmokeyJoe Thanks Joe. As I recall the article didn't mention the specifics.
Sort of left one hanging.
As far as A 2007 vape product is concerned we will find out what has value
when the OBM finishes its job over here.
Regards
mike

 

[zoiDman]

 

[BillW50]

Has anybody else heard that Evolv lost the lawsuit against Joyetech/Wismec?

 

[gofishtx]

Has anybody else heard that Evolv lost the lawsuit against Joyetech/Wismec?

Yep hence the new RX200S

 

[retired1]

Has anybody else heard that Evolv lost the lawsuit against Joyetech/Wismec?

From what I can see online, the case is still open.

Evolv LLC v. Joyetech USA Inc. et al | United States Courts Archive®

Edit -

Yep. Still ongoing.

Evolv LLC v. Joyetech USA Inc. et al (8:16-cv-00459), California Central District Court

 

[gofishtx]

From what I can see online, the case is still open.

Evolv LLC v. Joyetech USA Inc. et al | United States Courts Archive®

Edit -

Yep. Still ongoing.

Evolv LLC v. Joyetech USA Inc. et al (8:16-cv-00459), California Central District Court

My mistake, I had seen it posted that they won and did not follow up, they just beat an injunction that would stop them from production. The new RX200S must just be Joyetech at Evolve

 

[raylee]

Typical greedy people who wants to get rich by selling over inflated priced products. When the market becomes competitive, they sue and try to get easy money. I have 4 vaporshark, of which 3 are problematic within a month. I have 2 DNA200s, 3 Hana Not buying anymore DNAs. They seems to care more about how much they can make than working together to fight for our vaping rights.

 

[crxess]

Moot Suite

At least if they win................. and Collect anything($$$) they can close the doors on E--cig related Research and design, in the Green.

Is that Go Big and Go Home?

 

[paulw2014]

I admit, I did not read all the posts in this thread so far, only some. What caught my eye is that some mentioned that VV = VW. They are mostly the same but not quite. VV is "slightly" easier to implement. Things like buck converters or boost converters that can be found in any old power electronics textbook all output a regulated voltage.

To transform it to VW, one would needs to take into account of the resistance of the load (not that hard) and adjust the voltage accordingly. So when you have VV, you are 90% to VW. For Kanthal wires, the resistance doesn't change much with temperature, so it's even easier to implement VW for that.

The question is, what exactly is Evolv accusing Joyetech of? Is the the VW thing?

So if someone do a VV chip, it would not infringe on Evolv's patent?

 

[Rossum]

I admit, I did not read all the posts in this thread so far, only some. What caught my eye is that some mentioned that VV = VW. They are mostly the same but not quite. VV is "slightly" easier to implement. Things like buck converters or boost converters that can be found in any old power electronics textbook all output a regulated voltage.

To transform it to VW, one would needs to take into account of the resistance of the load (not that hard) and adjust the voltage accordingly. So when you have VV, you are 90% to VW. For Kanthal wires, the resistance doesn't change much with temperature, so it's even easier to implement VW for that.

The question is, what exactly is Evolv accusing Joyetech of? Is the the VW thing?

So if someone do a VV chip, it would not infringe on Evolv's patent?

No, it wouldn't. That's nothing more than an adjustable voltage regulator.

VW as patented by Evolv requires real-time monitoring of output current, using that as feedback to calculate resistance, and adjusting the output voltage in real-time to keep power constant.

PS: The question in my mind has always been whether Evolv's application of real-time VW to vaporizers should ever have been granted to begin with. Real-time VW has existed in industrial heating applications since at least the mid 1990s -- I know this for a fact because I wrote personally implemented it in some of those applications and still have the schematics and source code to prove it.